Author Topic: Bill Simmons reports a Pierce Rumour  (Read 6865 times)

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Re: Bill Simmons reports a Pierce Rumour
« Reply #15 on: April 04, 2012, 11:40:11 AM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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Simmons = Jerk

Re: Bill Simmons reports a Pierce Rumour
« Reply #16 on: April 04, 2012, 11:53:11 AM »

Online bdm860

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So, let's say it was Pierce for cap relief and a top-5 protected #1.

I assume the "blow it up" folks would have been all over that one?

Meh. I think it would've been nice if it was a West-Coast team. A top-5 protected pick and expirings is about the best you could hope for.

But in New Jersey? I'd hate to see him 4 times a year.

I think the blog would've gone nuclear if this deal was actually made.  It would've make the Perk Wars look like a Current Events slapfight.  Especially if the pick rolled over to next year.  Pierce in a Nets jersey and nothing to show for it but more of the one thing we have a ton of next year already.  Yuck.

That would be hilarious (but not in a good way).  New Jersey gets Pierce and so they win a few more games but still miss the playoffs. They then go on to win the lottery and get a top 3 pick, so their pick to us would roll over to next year.

But now with Deron, Pierce, and a top 3 pick, Dwight Howard decides to sign with New Jersey in the off season. Suddenly the Nets are one of the top teams in the league, and the pick ends up being very late 20's in the 2013 draft.

Lol just like the Clippers pick. At first we thought a top 10 protected pick was good, with Clippers hopefully finishing somewhere in the low teens. Then they get Chris Paul, and all of the sudden their pick is in the 20's, worse than our own pick. 

Oh it would be good times at this blog if that happened with a New Jersey trade  :D

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Re: Bill Simmons reports a Pierce Rumour
« Reply #17 on: April 04, 2012, 12:06:43 PM »

Offline 2short

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when doc first arrived I hated his rotations which i feel has always been a week spot for him
when we won the championship Doc out coached Phil Jackson PERIOD
Doc should be one of top 3 choices for coach of the year this year

Re: Bill Simmons reports a Pierce Rumour
« Reply #18 on: April 04, 2012, 12:07:47 PM »

Offline celtic -_- pride

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So, let's say it was Pierce for cap relief and a top-5 protected #1.

I assume the "blow it up" folks would have been all over that one?

I might have been happy, it at least would have given us a clear direction going forward, though dealing pierce to a division rival would be tough.

i wouldn't necessarily call NJ a division rival... they are just in our division
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Re: Bill Simmons reports a Pierce Rumour
« Reply #19 on: April 04, 2012, 12:15:25 PM »

Offline Jeff

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if you trade Pierce for a pick and expirings then you HAVE to trade Ray for whatever pick you can get

KG would have been hard to move regardless but you'd almost have to buy him out at that point

that all would have been a disaster

no likey
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Re: Bill Simmons reports a Pierce Rumour
« Reply #20 on: April 04, 2012, 12:32:26 PM »

Offline Moranis

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Nice revisionist history from Simmons.

He has been bad-mouthing Doc for years. According to him, Doc was a bad coach when the Celtics had no talent (despite having won Coach of the Year earlier in his career).

Then, he was an "acceptable" coach when the Celtics won the championship (because you know, anyone can coach a good team).

Now it's indisputable that Doc is one of the top coaches in the league, so Simmons has to argue Doc made some massive improvement over the last couple of years.

That makes sense, when you consider the alternatives:
   1. After winning Coach of the Year (with an overachieving bunch of nobodies) and an NBA championship (with three veterans who needed to learn how to play together in one year), Doc all of a sudden did his homework and became a much better coach in the last two years.
     2. Bill Simmons was wrong.
I actually thought Doc was a terrible coach as well.  He would say one thing then do something else.  The next week he would reverse it.  He would give some young players a lot of rope and others would be on short chains.  He just wasn't a very likeable guy to me because he came off as two faced.  I think he has gotten a lot better in the last few years, both on and off the court. 
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Re: Bill Simmons reports a Pierce Rumour
« Reply #21 on: April 04, 2012, 12:36:41 PM »

Offline Finkelskyhook

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Well, Simmons got the 2005-2007 part spot-on.  May have been one of the poorest coaching jobs from top to bottom in NBA history.  Some coaches can develop a young team.  Rivers has never been one of them.

Pierce will never be traded.  Even if it made us better it would never be forgiven.


Re: Bill Simmons reports a Pierce Rumour
« Reply #22 on: April 04, 2012, 12:40:42 PM »

Offline incoherent

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In 2008, Simmons was a Lakers fan.. and picked against us in every single series that year and the following 2 years. 

The fact that he said Doc was terrible in 2007 leads me to believe he didnt bother watching any games in 2007.. When Doc literally had no players and got them to compete and play hard every single night despite losing every game. 

2007 will always be a very successful season for me.  For one, it was one of the more entertaining years, watching the kids play extremely hard, nobdies, 1st and 2nd year players playing hard and keeping games close.  Yes we lost a lot of games, but the games were close and Doc did a great job both tanking that season and building up the stock on all the youngs guys we shipped out for our core, Which Doc immediately converted into a ring.


SO.. Doc was always a good coach in my opinion, he has gotten noticeable better but he was never awful like Simmons implies.

Re: Bill Simmons reports a Pierce Rumour
« Reply #23 on: April 04, 2012, 12:54:34 PM »

Offline StartOrien

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if you trade Pierce for a pick and expirings then you HAVE to trade Ray for whatever pick you can get

KG would have been hard to move regardless but you'd almost have to buy him out at that point

that all would have been a disaster

no likey

I think you'd have to give it some thought; You'd enter the offseason with Rondo, 40 million dollars to spend, your first pick, the clippers first pick, and ideally the nets first round pick. That's a pretty good pitch to make to free agents.

Truth be told, I'm glad it didn't happen though. This trade in particular makes me realize that I'd rather Pierce retire here than 'improve' our future.

Re: Bill Simmons reports a Pierce Rumour
« Reply #24 on: April 04, 2012, 01:04:45 PM »

Offline Boris Badenov

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Nice revisionist history from Simmons.

That makes sense, when you consider the alternatives:
   1. After winning Coach of the Year (with an overachieving bunch of nobodies) and an NBA championship (with three veterans who needed to learn how to play together in one year), Doc all of a sudden did his homework and became a much better coach in the last two years.
     2. Bill Simmons was wrong.
I actually thought Doc was a terrible coach as well.  He would say one thing then do something else.  The next week he would reverse it.  He would give some young players a lot of rope and others would be on short chains.  He just wasn't a very likeable guy to me because he came off as two faced.  I think he has gotten a lot better in the last few years, both on and off the court. 

Well, you can certainly plug your name in there where it says "Bill Simmons." I don't mind.

 :)

Re: Bill Simmons reports a Pierce Rumour
« Reply #25 on: April 04, 2012, 01:10:59 PM »

Offline Daedalus

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Simmons loves to spread his rumors.  So convenient for him to do so after the fact when it can't be refuted.

In any case, trading Pierce to the Nets for some expiring contracts and a chance at a top 10 pick would have gone down as one of the worst trades in Celtics history.  The backlash would have been much, much worse than the Perkins trade.

I'd give Ainge less than two more years as the Celtics GM if he had made that move.  Can't make two colossally dumb moves in consecutive seasons and expect to keep your job.  It's a good thing he thought better of it, or the Nets found a better offer.

Re: Bill Simmons reports a Pierce Rumour
« Reply #26 on: April 04, 2012, 01:23:53 PM »

Offline P2

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I'm sorry, but my heart is too green. I wouldn't get over trading away Pierce. He belongs in Celtic green for the rest of his career.

Re: Bill Simmons reports a Pierce Rumour
« Reply #27 on: April 04, 2012, 01:26:45 PM »

Offline paintitgreen

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I'll be honest, I was never impressed with Doc's coaching until KG, Ray and Thibs arrived. I never thought he was atrocious, but I did think he was below average to average. He was supposedly an offensive coach (and I do think his set pieces coming out of timeouts have, throughout his Celtics career, been very good) but he wisely dopted a defensive philosophy. He was clearly best suited to getting the most out of good veterans, but never really had the opportunity to show that (though you have to say, that division title with Pierce, Payton and Antoine plus a bunch of kids was a good coaching job so the signs were there he'd adjust well to coaching veteran stars).

In hindsight, I have to say he was better early than I thought he was. While guys like Clifford Ray also deserve a lot of credit, he did a good job developing guys like Kendrick Perkins, Al Jefferson, Tony Allen, Delonte West, Ryan Gomes, and Leon Powe. Some guys busted here - Gerald Green, Sebastian Telfair, Marcus Banks - but for the most part haven't done a whole lot since meaning the problem was the player, not the coach (credit to Green for resurrecting his career and playing well in New Jersey the last month or so). I don't think a lot of coaches could handle Rondo so well. He did a good job handling Avery Bradley, keeping his confidence up until Doc was confident he could play Avery. Doc is just good at handling and reaching players, much better than I thought before.

I certainly disagree with Simmons on '08. I don't blame Doc for that strange Atlanta series - as much as it went 7 games, the Celtics won every home game by 20-30 points. They just didn't execute in Atlanta. As for Cleveland, Lebron was at his apex at that point, and I don't think he was as self-conscious about closing games, and seasons, out. But Doc pushed the right buttons, bringing House's energy back when he knew the team needed a shot in the arm, going small when the time was right, and using PJ Brown effectively without wearing the old man down. Not to mention, his use of small ball in the third quarter of Game 4 of the Finals - House, Ray, Pierce, Posey/TA and KG - may have saved that title. The players executed, but he pushed all the right buttons, even subbing in TA, who had no outside shot and wasn't playing a whole lot in that playoff run, for a winded Posey, because he knew he needed to keep a fourth perimeter player out there.

Now, I wouldn't go so far as to say he deserves COY this year. Yes, he's done a very good job, but Chicago has remained on top of the league despite missing the reigning MVP for a good chunk of the season, and Popovich has been, as usual, simply astounding. I'd give it to Pop because I think it's a joke he only has one in his career - a second is well deserved.

Then again, the award is kind of a joke. Pop and Phil have each only won once, and Jerry Sloan has never won it, while guys like Avery Johnson, Sam Mitchell, Byron Scott and Mike Brown have won over the last six years.

As for the actual topic, I'd have a hard time turning down a pick in the 4-8 range for Paul Pierce at this stage of his career. I want him to retire here too, but that's good value. Although, I'd have some fears. Even before the KG trade, I was glad the Cs traded the 5th pick and Wally for Ray. I thought that 5th pick was doomed here because he'd always be "the guy that isn't Kevin Durant." Sort of like Chauncey Billups was doomed from the start, even though he was excited to be a Celtic, because he was "the guy that isn't Tim Duncan." Yeah, Pitino dealt him too quickly, but if Boston fans are honest, they'll remember that they never really took to Billups and given Duncan's immediate success, I have doubts they ever would have. So in this case, whoever the Celtics drafted with that pick - this year, or in a worst case scenario next year - would always be held to Pierce's lofty standards.
Go Celtics.

Re: Bill Simmons reports a Pierce Rumour
« Reply #28 on: April 04, 2012, 01:29:02 PM »

Offline Greenbean

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So, let's say it was Pierce for cap relief and a top-5 protected #1.

I assume the "blow it up" folks would have been all over that one?

I'm not a blow it up guy, but that would not have been a bad deal.


Regarding the SImmons "rumor", doesn't it make more sense if Garnett was the target for NJ rather than Pierce?


Re: Bill Simmons reports a Pierce Rumour
« Reply #29 on: April 04, 2012, 02:58:04 PM »

Offline Moranis

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So, let's say it was Pierce for cap relief and a top-5 protected #1.

I assume the "blow it up" folks would have been all over that one?

I'm not a blow it up guy, but that would not have been a bad deal.


Regarding the SImmons "rumor", doesn't it make more sense if Garnett was the target for NJ rather than Pierce?


No.  Pierce is signed next year, Garnett is not.  NJ didn't have a SF, but was ok down low with Lopez and Humphries (and Okur, though I think he would have had to been the salary in the trade).
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