Celtics Empy Seats? 4th in Town?

[boom]

FYI TIQIQ is a partner of the blog (OK, not sure if partner is the correct word, but they do work with the blog). 

Oh, either way, maybe a proper post rather than spamming the forum with bogus threads would be better. Just a thought.

[RyNye]

Is this really so difficult to figure out? The economy is in shambles, and NBA tickets are expensive, especially to a good/popular team like the Celtics. I live in DC these days, and even the cheapest tickets to the Wizards are around 50 bucks. For good teams it's tough to get them cheaper than 100.

It's really that simple. Unless you can afford to pay for GOOD seats, most people just don't want to shell out a lot of money to go to the nosebleeds.

All this talk about fans "abandoning" the team, or some hierarchy of sports teams, is a stupid waste of time. It has nothing to do with lack of interest, lack of fans, bad fans, or any stupid Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline. like that. It's the economy. New England isn't doing well economically (and most NBA fans, especially in Boston, are younger, which further compounds the issue).

Did anybody watch the Bulls-Heat game on TNT a few days ago? One of the premier match-ups in the league between two big-market teams? There were empty seats EVERYWHERE.

Once again, it's money, so no more complaining about how the fans have abandoned the team or something. If you really think it's something other than money ... well, ALL the evidence is weighed against you, and please explain why Bulls-Heat games are equally, if not more, empty.

(Also, the last two Celtics ROAD games I went to, there were more C's fans than fans of the local team, so think about that, too)

[jgod213]

Yes, a combo of the lockout, a percieved demise of the championship run (by many casual fans and some diehards), and a Bruins championship has given way to a few changes this year.

I was a Bruins mini-season ticket holder last year, the price was hefty, but NOTHING compared to this year.  Me and a couple buddies showed up on causeway st trying to buy tickets to a tuesday night B's/Kings game (last place Kings) about a month ago and we couldn't get in for anything under $60 each. Insane.

These prices are being driven by the casual fan, who fluidly decides which bandwagon to jump on to.  Sucks but it's the price you pay for success.

Right now those fans would rather invest their time and money on the surging, defending champion Bruins.  Can't say i blame them, but at the same time i'm very excited to snap up a few $30 balcony tix to a weeknight celtics game within the next week or two.

[GreenEnvy]

I hope there are cheap seats available, then I'd go.

I live in NYC and would make the trip up to see a game or two, but with the cost of travel and hotels, it can get expensive just to catch a game or two that I already pay (League Pass) to watch.

I went to one game in Boston (against the Lakers in 2010) and many in NY/NJ, and it really doesn't compare, regardless of how many C's fans show up to other arenas. I would definitely pay decent money if I lived in Boston or was visiting, the atmosphere is incredible, even compared to MSG.

[blackbird]

the NBA is putting out a bad product right now. I've been to two games and the level of play is horrendous, almost as bad as college ball. I felt like I wasted my money, even though the C's won one of the games.

Another related thing is the insane roster turnover that happened last off season. Not only did they not have a training camp to get ready, but they players didn't even have a chance to learn how to play with their new teammates.

And it's hard as a fan to see so many new faces all at once on my team, never mind the other teams. Even now, a month into the season, I'll see a team and say, "Oh! I didn't know that guy was playing for them!" I just feel very disconnected from the NBA this year.

[rover]

No, I do not work for TIQIQ and I have nothing to do with them.
I am a big sports demographer however.

I also hate the Bruins.  Many B's fans have told me Boston is a terrible basketball town and that if the Celtics had the Bruins history and long drought they would have moved or been like the Clippers.

I gotta say, I think it speaks terrible that Celtic tickets are a fraction of Bruins tickets.  This after having one of the best teams in modern history.

I can tell you Knicks tickets are at a premium, and they stink, and they had a lockout too.
Celtic games have empty seats and cheap tickets not just relative to the Bruins but also to other NBA teams, and to me, that kinda speaks volumes about the base.

Is the base that fickle and fair weather?
I don't buy the economy argument, MA's economy is not that bad and well enough to have expensive NHL, NFL, and Red Sox tickets.  Unfortunately to me it seems this about Boston being a complete bandwagon NBA town that really doesn't value the game.  Otherwise, Knick tickets would be a shell of what they are.

I hope I am wrong.

[birdbrady]

No, I do not work for TIQIQ and I have nothing to do with them.
I am a big sports demographer however.

I also hate the Bruins.  Many B's fans have told me Boston is a terrible basketball town and that if the Celtics had the Bruins history and long drought they would have moved or been like the Clippers.

I gotta say, I think it speaks terrible that Celtic tickets are a fraction of Bruins tickets.  This after having one of the best teams in modern history.

I can tell you Knicks tickets are at a premium, and they stink, and they had a lockout too.
Celtic games have empty seats and cheap tickets not just relative to the Bruins but also to other NBA teams, and to me, that kinda speaks volumes about the base.

Is the base that fickle and fair weather?
I don't buy the economy argument, MA's economy is not that bad and well enough to have expensive NHL, NFL, and Red Sox tickets.  Unfortunately to me it seems this about Boston being a complete bandwagon NBA town that really doesn't value the game.  Otherwise, Knick tickets would be a shell of what they are.

I hope I am wrong.

You aren't wrong.  Boston just really isn't much of a basketball town.  The most popular basketball was in this town was from about 84-88.  But even in the early to mid 90s, being a Celtics fan was 'cool.'  The Celtics, by that point, were the most successful franchise in sports following the second World War, so there were a lot of bandwagoners.  Even when teh team was down, the sense was we were going to build another dynsaty.  But 20 year drought, (and more so, the amount of years the team was HORRIBLE during that drought) just killed it.  Boston was never a good basketball town, however it was becoming one in the early 90s (largely like I said, because being a fan of the best franchise in sports was cool) - but we blew that.

The Celtics almost moved in 1978.  John Y Brown was planning to take them to San Diego.  But you know who stepped in and wouldn't allow it? Deputy Commish David Stern, who thought taking the Celtics out of Boston should be untouchable (despite lack of fan interest in teh team, esp during the late 70s.)  So he arranged a swap of franchises with the Buffalo Braves owner, and John Y Brown (Celtics owner.)  So the Braves owner (Manchurian I *think*) took over the Celtics and kept the team here, and JYB took over the Braves - moved them to SD and turned them into the Clippers.

[vinnie]

It was Harry Mangurian who was the owner who took over after the franchise swap.

As for empty seats, I have seen plenty of them at every game I have attended this year.

As for why, I think it is two reasons. The team is not as good nor exciting anymore and ticket prices are crazy. I have had half season tickets for many years, even during the 19 losses in a row season, and am thinking of giving them up next year because they are just too expensive. And buying tickets for individual games is even worse.

[birdbrady]

It was Harry Mangurian who was the owner who took over after the franchise swap.

As for empty seats, I have seen plenty of them at every game I have attended this year.

As for why, I think it is two reasons. The team is not as good nor exciting anymore and ticket prices are crazy. I have had half season tickets for many years, even during the 19 losses in a row season, and am thinking of giving them up next year because they are just too expensive. And buying tickets for individual games is even worse.

I think the main reason is that the Bruins are so good, that if you are going to go to the Garden to pay bucks to see a pro sports team it's them.  I agree with you about the ticket prices.  And the scarier thing is - STHrs pay less on face than the general public.  But these secondary ticket outlets (Stubhub, ACE, WhateverTicketAgency, etc) are selling their tickets for either face or below face.  There are too many areas in the Garden where the value just isn't there.  Aren't there like near $100 balcony seats and then there are $28 seats? Please.  The Celtics are 'selling out' every game now because a lot of these secondary outlets have gobbled up the tickets, but people just aren't buying.  They aren't even paying below face.  So, expect to see a massive drop off on season ticket sales this off-seaon because companies like ACE, or online scalpers on Stubhub aren't in this to lose money, and that's what they are doing this year.

What I find concerning is this - last year the Celtics, particularly at the beginning of the season were as popular as they ever were in Boston during the KG years.  And last year, the franchise only made 7.7M ( http://www.forbes.com/pictures/mli45gmie/5-boston-celtics/ )  With merchandise sales certainly down this year, soon-to-be-plummeting ticket sales, and an economy that most believe is going to get worse in the second half of 2012 and early 2013 - now what?

[Roy H.]

What I find concerning is this - last year the Celtics, particularly at the beginning of the season were as popular as they ever were in Boston during the KG years.  And last year, the franchise only made 7.7M ( http://www.forbes.com/pictures/mli45gmie/5-boston-celtics/ )  With merchandise sales certainly down this year, soon-to-be-plummeting ticket sales, and an economy that most believe is going to get worse in the second half of 2012 and early 2013 - now what?

The Celts will be fine financially.  They just signed a lucrative television contract, that gives them a 20% ownership stake in Comcast Sports NE.  That should more than make up for lackluster ticket sales.

[Eja117]

I think the lock out really p---ed off a lot of casual fans.  They were arguing over money, but if someone wants to take their family to a game, its a $400 night.

Right. Not sustainable...certainly not in the current market...and it would be nice if both players and owners would recognize that.

So it's kinda simple. Either they voluntarily take pay cuts and give flexibility or we cut their pay for them. 

They're so entitled that they'll cry and knash teeth, but that is sooooooooooooooo not our problem. It's best not to enable them and let them learn the lesson themselves for their own good.

[Eja117]

What I find concerning is this - last year the Celtics, particularly at the beginning of the season were as popular as they ever were in Boston during the KG years.  And last year, the franchise only made 7.7M ( http://www.forbes.com/pictures/mli45gmie/5-boston-celtics/ )  With merchandise sales certainly down this year, soon-to-be-plummeting ticket sales, and an economy that most believe is going to get worse in the second half of 2012 and early 2013 - now what?

The Celts will be fine financially.  They just signed a lucrative television contract, that gives them a 20% ownership stake in Comcast Sports NE.  That should more than make up for lackluster ticket sales.

Again not the best business plan. To say "Well actually we lose money on ticket and merch sales. The only way we keep profitable is through tv contracts, but hey, that'll probably continue forever"......nope. Might work for a while. Might not.  It's not a Celts problem. It's an NBA problem. It's a big part of why they keep trying to expand the game globally and need kids to stay in college

[gpap]

Ya know, on TV, I see a lot of empty seats.
On TIQIQ, prices are dirt cheap.

I am outraged at how it seems Boston is either a racist town which dislikes the NBA or is such a fickle town that a slow start after 4 straight divison crowns, 17 titles, and greta play...they would jump off the bandwagon THAT fast.

Are Boston fans that fickle or are they just not very loyal tot he NBA?
I don't get, tickets being that easy after a slow start?

I don't feel racism has anything do it with it because right now the Pats are the hottest Boston team, and alot of the Pats players are African American.  BUT..I get very ticked at how casual sports fans view the NBA. I am so sick of hearing people say "oh it's a thug sport", "they're a bunch of thugs." Yet when hockey players clothesline each other like neanderthals, that's somehow viewed as enjoyable and entertaining.

Again, I don't think it's racism. BUT I just hate how ignorant some people are towards their view of basketball. Others say that the NBA is a bunch of prima donnas and individuals. NONSENSE! They are no less prima donnas in any of the other three sports than there are in basketball.

I think the reason why so many feel hockey is "more of a team sport" is because there isn't as much of an emphasis placed on the indvidual players like there are in the NBA. And admittedly, sometimes way too much is made about the players themselves instead of the team (Lebron, Kobe, Durant,etc).

But just because the NHL isn't as focused on individulas playerrs doesn't make the NHL any more of a team league than the NBA. Last I checked, there are 15 guys who make up an NBA team, regardless of what the media "experts" want you to think.