Author Topic: Celtic's woes begin with Defense  (Read 1566 times)

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Celtic's woes begin with Defense
« on: January 17, 2012, 12:38:01 PM »

Offline Kane3387

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So some interesting info in this article. Hollinger's point is that Perkins presence wouldn't make a significant difference on the team's performance.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7469501/nba-kendrick-perkins-trade-not-boston-celtics-problem

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BOSTON -- It's not about Perk.

The Boston Celtics are struggling since trading Kendrick Perkins, no question about it. After Perk's new team, the Oklahoma City Thunder, came into Boston and won 97-88 on Monday, the Celtics are now 19-20 since shipping out their center at last season's trade deadline, including 4-8 this season. The loss was the fifth straight for Boston -- its longest skid since acquiring Kevin Garnett in 2007.

Hollinger points to Perk not being the catalyst for the Thunder's success either.

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Perk's Oklahoma City team, meanwhile, is a league-best 12-2. Since acquiring Perkins, the Thunder have gone 31-9 over the past two seasons. And yet, it's hard to point to Perkins as the major catalyst for either side. The 27-year-old big man had seven points and five rebounds in his return to Boston, where he spent the first seven-plus years of his career. On the game's first possession, Perkins posted up Jermaine O'Neal, tried a running hook in the lane, and missed the rim by a foot to the right.

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No, the factors behind Oklahoma City's league-leading start and the Celtics' limp to start the season are much deeper than just a role-playing, dirty-work center. Boston appears to be in the death throes of the Garnett-Allen-Pierce nucleus; we're not ready to read last rites just yet but the patient is definitely critical. That was going to be the case whether Perkins, O'Neal or Doc Rivers was the starting center. (O'Neal, for the record, badly outplayed his opposite number, with only his second double-double since becoming a Boston Celtic.)

It's hard to convince the Boston faithful of this fact, however, as Perk's trade was the line of demarcation for when the Celtics' old warhorses started showing their age. The TD Garden crowed gave Perk a long ovation in pregame introductions, and again when the Celtics showed a video tribute to his Boston years during the first timeout. (Side note: As a franchise, Boston remains one of the league's classiest acts.)

I think this we all can agree with.

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But let's face an honest truth: Perk can't fix what's wrong with Boston right now. He can't make the other players younger or the bench players capable of scoring or fix a score of other weaknesses.

Hollinger now squarely puts the cause of our fortunes squarely on KG. In fact he gives Pierce a pass a little lower down and basically says, "this team can only compete when KG brings the D and he hasn't been."

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Most notably, Kevin Garnett can't jump. This fact wasn't immediately apparent when I watched the Celtics on television, but it's hammer-you-over-the-head obvious in person. The most telling point of the game was in the second quarter, when Garnet caught the ball late in the shot clock with Perkins on him, took a dribble to the left and quick-shot it to get it over the closing Perkins.

Read that again. Garnett, who with his length and leaping ability had historically gotten his shot off on whomever he pleased whenever he pleased, had to slide back and quick-hoist one because it was going back in his face if he didn't.

That wasn't the only time it happened; on another foray down a wide-open lane, Garnett ended up shooting a teardrop. That it went in was a testament to his skill level; that he had to shoot it was testament to how little lift he has right now.

And that, in a nutshell, is the story behind the 2011-12 Celtics. Garnett, the linchpin of one of the best defensive teams in NBA history over the past four seasons, can't get off the ground, and it's affecting his game at every level. Monday night he used 25 possessions to produce 12 points, with several close-in shots providing particularly poignant reminders. One close-in flip that would have been a dunk two years ago went in, but another was instead rejected by Serge Ibaka.

Last season, Garnett made a staggering impact defensively. Boston gave up 6.19 fewer points per 100 possessions with him on the court than off it, and the Celtics already were among the league's best defensive teams without him. According to basketballvalue.com, only one player -- Chicago's Ronnie Brewer -- had opponents score less when he was on the court than Garnett's 97.84 points per 100 possessions. This season, Garnett is nowhere to be found on that leaderboard; Boston gives up the same amount whether he's on the court or off it, even though his replacement is normally the defensive suspect Brandon Bass.

Those stats in bold above are pretty crazy...

Below is where he even gives Pierce a pass. Basically saying the offensive output is the same as last year. It's the defense that isn't the same.

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In a related story, Boston's defense has gone from spectacular to ordinary. The Celtics were second in the NBA in defensive efficiency last season; they entered Monday's game ranked 16th. So while their offense has been almost exactly the same as last season, they've fallen several notches defensively.

That's why the focus on Paul Pierce's conditioning or Rajon Rondo's hey-where's-everybody-else solo transition forays or the lack of production from the bench misses the point right now.

Boston's once-dominating defense is just ordinary now, and a big reason is because the anchor of that unit for the past half-decade simply isn't moving or jumping well enough to be a difference-maker
.

He goes on to talk about our rebounding and most notably KGs. I also didn't notice we had played such an easy schedule because of the games we have previously played.

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Nonetheless, the dropoff in Garnett's rebounding numbers is telling. Garnett rebounded 17.5 percent of missed shots when he was on the floor last season; entering this game, he was at just 13.5 percent. On the defensive glass, he's down from 28.7 percent to 22.2 percent -- a big factor in Boston's 25th-place standing in defensive rebound rate as a team entering Monday's game.

As a result, the Celtics are 4-8, and it's not even a good 4-8. Boston has played the league's seventh-easiest schedule entering Monday's slate of games, with Detroit (3-10) being the best team it has beaten all season. Of the other three wins, two were against the Wizards, and the third came against a New Jersey team missing Deron Williams and Kris Humphries.

He reemphasizes that Perkins and the trade could not solve our issues.

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For Boston right now, it's less a case of half-full versus half-empty and more a case of trying to find any water in the glass at all. The Perkins trade may have been the tipping point, but Monday night underlined that the Celtics have far bigger problems than the absence of a popular role player.

No one has been more of an optimist about this team then me. No one has stood up for KG more then I have either. Don't believe me? Go read Is Kg done?

That being said I think this team still has a shot to make things interesting. It seems a lot like 2010 except that we were playing better defense then. I think this team still has to be given another 3-4 weeks.

At that point if things aren't much improved I think you got to blow it up. As much as I love the Big 3 and all the players I am Celtic's Fan first. Meaning if trading Pierce or KG or Ray can provide the players and picks to speed up the rebuilding process then I am all for it.


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Re: Celtic's woes begin with Defense
« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2012, 12:44:35 PM »

Offline PosImpos

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I wouldn't say necessarily the the conclusion to be drawn is that the problem is specifically the defense.

The offense is bad -- really bad.  The thing is, the offense has been bad for a while; the team has simply been able to remain successful because of how good the defense has been.  Now that the defense isn't elite, we have a team with an average-at-best defense and a putrid offense.  Hence, we have a bad team.

The takeaway, however, shouldn't be that the only way to fix this team is to make it better defensively.  Even with a great defense, you're not going far if you have a putrid offense. 

It's still an enormous problem that from the beginning of the Big 3 era in the summer of '07 straight through to the present, the team has been built to get the vast majority of its scoring from the Big 3, and now the Big 3 are not capable of scoring 65-70+ points a game.
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Re: Celtic's woes begin with Defense
« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2012, 12:49:58 PM »

Offline Kane3387

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I wouldn't say necessarily the the conclusion to be drawn is that the problem is specifically the defense.

The offense is bad -- really bad.  The thing is, the offense has been bad for a while; the team has simply been able to remain successful because of how good the defense has been.  Now that the defense isn't elite, we have a team with an average-at-best defense and a putrid offense.  Hence, we have a bad team.

The takeaway, however, shouldn't be that the only way to fix this team is to make it better defensively.  Even with a great defense, you're not going far if you have a putrid offense. 

It's still an enormous problem that from the beginning of the Big 3 era in the summer of '07 straight through to the present, the team has been built to get the vast majority of its scoring from the Big 3, and now the Big 3 are not capable of scoring 65-70+ points a game.

I see your point but the defense has led to a lot of our offense in the past. The Heat and Bulls are similar in that regard. Neither team is very efficient in the half court. It's all isolation. Yet they are great defensively and they score a lot off turnovers. We used to do that too especially at ideal times. This season we can't rebound and thus finish off the defensive stand. Were taking the ball out of bounds a lot more. If the defense was like it was last year then I think are looking at a 7-5 record. NY, OKC, Dallas. I think we win those games.


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Re: Celtic's woes begin with Defense
« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2012, 06:50:52 PM »

Offline Celtics18

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I wouldn't say necessarily the the conclusion to be drawn is that the problem is specifically the defense.

The offense is bad -- really bad.  The thing is, the offense has been bad for a while; the team has simply been able to remain successful because of how good the defense has been.  Now that the defense isn't elite, we have a team with an average-at-best defense and a putrid offense.  Hence, we have a bad team.

The takeaway, however, shouldn't be that the only way to fix this team is to make it better defensively.  Even with a great defense, you're not going far if you have a putrid offense.  

It's still an enormous problem that from the beginning of the Big 3 era in the summer of '07 straight through to the present, the team has been built to get the vast majority of its scoring from the Big 3, and now the Big 3 are not capable of scoring 65-70+ points a game.

I think putrid's a bit strong.  The team's hovering around league average in points per possession, that's true.  However, we are still among the top teams in field goal percentages and assist ratios.  To me, that's nowhere near putrid.

Would I like to see them improve offensively?  Yes.  The same goes for the D.  But, putrid is the Kings or the Wizards, not the Celtics.  
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Re: Celtic's woes begin with Defense
« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2012, 07:15:34 PM »

Offline green7

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offense defense everything is average

Re: Celtic's woes begin with Defense
« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2012, 07:38:19 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Some of the old guys bodies don't obey their minds anymore.