Author Topic: What we can learn from last season, and how we should reload for next season.  (Read 3192 times)

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Offline Yogi

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There are many lessons to learn from last season:
1) The NBA is changing.  Heat, Bulls, Thunder, Grizzlies even the Hawks are all improving.  The Spurs, Lakers, Celtics and the Mavericks are slowly but surely losing the battle against time.  Although Dallas won, it's easy to forget that Dallas had the third highest payroll behind only the Lakers and the Magic.  They were so stacked they became champions without Caron Butler and Roddy Beaubois.  However, whatever defense Jason Kidd, Shawn Marion and Jason Terry played on James, Wade, Durant and Westbrook will be much less effective next year as the young develop and the old age.  
2) The Celtics starting five of Rondo, Allen, Pierce, Garnett and J. O'Neal, can still be dominant for 25-28 min.  We made Miami work even with injuries, lack of chemistry and overworking our starters.  However we need to make some serious changes to transition from the Big 3 Era of an 8 man rotation to one where we are playing 10-11 people.
3)  We need a second unit that is young but experienced enough to play when it matters, athletic, can shoot, has continuity (chemistry) and has no liabilities on either end of the floor.  We also have almost no cap space to make this happen so we can forget about signing Jamal Crawford, Kris Humphries and Nene.  
   This sounds ominous, perhaps even impossible, but I think that this can be managed and we can compete for the title once more while maintaining our cap flexibility, and developing players for the inevitable post Big 3 era.  
1) Delonte West must be resigned.  He is a quality player who is undervalued by the league due to his "misunderstanding" with the law and his bi-polar disorder and injury history.  He hits every point on the checklist.  He's cheap, in the prime of his career, he can play either guard position, he's very athletic, he can shoot well, he's a tough and intelligent defender, and he has good chemistry and continuity with the Celtics.  Even if he plays only half the games he's worth his salary.  
2) Sasha Pavlovic should be signed for the vet min.  Another player who hits all points on the checklist.  He will be in the prime of his career, he can play either the shooting guard or the small forward position, he's got great size and is very athletic, he's a good spot up shooter, he has played with Delonte in Cleveland and he's familiar with our system, he has excellent IQ on both ends of the floor and he's tough as nails.  According to his agent, Danny expressed a lot of desire in bringing him back next season.  
3)  Jeff Green must be kept.  He's got excellent size for the small forward position.  He's very young and is simply one of the most athletic players in the league.  He has been absolutely abusing the rim in the pro-am events he has played in.  Although there's not much defense being played he's becoming more aggressive and finding his game.  He's a solid shooter, but he's a a good slasher, excellent finisher and a monster in the transition.  He has great size and quickness, with an increase in strength and familiarity with the system he can become a tremendous defender in the NBA.  He's also a high IQ player who is familiar with our system and has had an entire off season go over the plays, study film etc.  
4)  Glen Davis must be resigned but we have to change his role as to best utilize his strengths and cover his weaknesses.  Glen Davis struggles more covering power forwards than he does centers.  His most glaring weakness is that taller power-forwards shoot over him.  Dirk Nowitzki, Carlos Boozer, Chris Bosh, Amare Stoudemire, Pau Gasol, Serge Ibaka etc.  
   He's better suited to defend centers for multiple reasons.  His tremendous strength allows him to fight for position with the bigger stronger centers to keep them away from the basket where they are less effective.  The centers in the NBA shoot much worse than the power forwards.  I would rather Joel Anthony, Ronny Turiaf, Kendrick Perkins, Andrew Bynum, Joakim Noah, Dwight Howard, Tyson Chandler etc. (not to mention back up centers) shoot over Davis than the aforementioned power forwards.  
   Davis' biggest strength on defense is his ability to move his feet quickly and draw a charge.  Guarding a center allows him to be near the circle where he can cut off slashers and draw the charge rather than running around the perimeter trying to guard longer stretch fours.  
   Finally, Davis really benefits on the offensive end where his shooting, surprising quickness and smaller size actually helps draw opposing centers away from the paint which opens up driving lanes for slashers like Jeff Green, Pavlovic and Bradley.  He can even take the bigger, slower centers off the dribble, and use his excellent spin move and good finishing ability around the basket without running the risk of having his shot blocked by the more agile forwards.  Dejuan Blair and Chuck Hayes are centers with similar build as Davis who do a great job in the Center position.  
5) We need to take a chance on a cheap, young, long and athletic power forward to play with Davis.  If we had the MLE (and it was enough) to spend on a guy like Kris Humphries that would be ideal, there are some other options.  Obviously there will be risks but with limited cap space that can't be avoided.  
a) Josh McRoberts hits quite a few checklists.  He's young, he's super athletic, he has good size and he can be had for relatively cheap.  He has range out to the 3-point line and can knock down free-throws.  His defense is questionable, but he's tough and he's young.  Kevin Garnett and Jermaine O'Neal should be able to teach him something about defense.  
b) Yi Jianlian is very similar to McRoberts.  He has tremendous size and athleticism.  He also has range out to the three point line, and he is a good free-throw shooter.  He can be had for cheap but we have to gamble that he will step up his defense and rebounding in the right system.
c) Alexis Ajinca is almost identical to Yi Jianlian.
d) Chris Wilcox is more experienced but has much less upside than McRoberts or Yi.  He's a poor free-throw shooter and does not have a lot of range.  However, he can rebound the ball better and is a much more potent threat on the inside.  He would be the solid choice to shore up our rebounding and provide our second unit with an inside threat.  He's also known for not putting up a lot of effort on defense but that might change playing with Doc, KG, and JO.  
   There are other advantages to going after a power forward instead of a center this summer.  Miami, New York, LA, Chicago, Oklahoma, Dallas and Memphis all have players who dominate that position.  Free-agents seeking playing time with contenders would find Boston a more friendly option than these other teams.  Miami and New York would probably both be more attractive option for free-agent Centers.  Also the affordable centers in this free-agency are pretty abysmal.  I don't see Kwame Brown or Kurt Thomas being more effective than Glen Davis.  
6) We keep young pieces hoping they will develop into pieces that can help us Post big 3.  We have two young combo guards in E'Twaun Moore and Avery Bradley.  E'twaun Moore might actually be the better point guard prospect because he's handled the ball quite often in Purdue and has an excellent assist to turn-over ratio.  He also has great size for a point guard but lacks elite athleticism.  
If the Bradley point guard experiment doesn't pan out, he'll still be an athletic guard who can score the rock.  He's still very young though and has a lot of upside.
   We sign Gilbert Brown, he's cheap, extremely athletic, excellent defender and is a solid long term prospect at 2/3 wing.  From everything I've seen he's a longer, less turnover prone, Tony Allen.  Of course Tony has elite toughness and intensity that is very, very rare in this league.  
   Jajuan Johnson is another prospect.  He's incredibly athletic, very long, can play on both ends of the floor, and has improved consistently every year he's played basketball.  He can also shoot the ball incredible well for a guy his size.  He's not at all weak, he can bench 330 pounds and had 15 reps of 185 lbs at the combine.  He has 38 inch vertical which shows he has strong legs as well.  He's just so incredibly skinny looking that you're constantly worried that he's going to snap like a twig at any moment.  However he's avoided injuries and hasn't missed a game in 4 years of college.  He also stated he see's himself as a 3/4 combo forward in the future.  He has to develop his ball handling, range and quickness significantly to play the 3 in the NBA.  He has a lot of potential to become a very good player in this league.  
   With our last spot, we should get the best available experienced and injury-free center we can find.  Maybe that's Kwame Brown, maybe Joel Pryzbilla is healthy, maybe Kurt Thomas who was durable for the Bulls last season.  Although the thought of signing another old center makes me nauseous, we need someone experienced enough to play minutes in game 7 of the NBA finals.  We hope and pray JO will be healthy but we have to prepare for the possibility he will be out.  We can't have rookies playing in the playoffs no matter how they do in the regular season.  Look at Landry Fields, Gary Neal etc.  They are simply not ready for the pressure and the atmosphere and will collapse.
   Even with a tougher CBA, we should at least be able to bring back our own free-agents and fill out our roster with vet min deals.  We should split the MLE if it's still around for a young, athletic, long power forward and a serviceable Center.  Here is what our Roster would look like if we do these things (from Wikipedia):
Veteran Starting Unit (25-30 min with the exception of Rondo)
PG = Rajon Rondo Age: 25 Height: 6'1 Weight: 171
SG = Ray Allen Age: 36 Height: 6'5 Weight: 205
SF = Paul Pierce Age: 33 Height: 6'7 Weight: 235
PF = Kevin Garnett Age: 35 Height: 6'11 Weight: 253
C  = Jermaine O'Neal Age: 32 Height: 6'11 Weight: 255
Young, athletic second unit to (18-23 min)
PG = Delonte West Age: 28 Height: 6'3 Weight: 180
SG = Sasha Pavlovic Age: 27 Height: 6'7 Weight: 235
SF = Jeff Green Age: 25 Height: 6'9 Weight: 235
PF = Josh McRoberts: Age: 24 Height: 6'10 Weight: 240(Yi Jianlian/Chris Wilcox etc.)
C  = Glen Davis Age: 25 Height: 6'9 Weight: 289
Diamond in the Rough unit:
1/2 Guard = E'Twaun Moore Age: 22 Height: 6'4 Weight: 191
1/2 Guard = Avery Bradley Age: 20 Height: 6'2 Weight: 180
2/3 Wing = Gilbert Brown Age: 24 Height: 6'6 Weight: 210
3/4 Forward = JaJuan Johnson Age: 22 Height: 6'10 Weight: 210
Center = Kwame Brown Age: 29 Height: 6'11 Weight: 270 (Joel Pryzbilla/Kurt Thomas etc.)
   We'll have 10 players returning from last season of whom 9 will be part of the regular rotation.  This will really help with our continuity which is very important.  If we learned anything from last season it's that chemistry and continuity can't be underestimated, especially since we might have a shortened training camp, cancelled pre-season, shortened season etc.  
« Last Edit: September 30, 2011, 01:59:42 PM by Yogi »
CelticsBlog DKC Pelicans
J. Lin/I. Canaan/N. Wolters
E. Gordon/A. Shved
N. Batum/A. Roberson
A. Davis/K. Olynyk/M. Scott
D. Cousins/A. Baynes/V. Faverani
Rights: A. Abrines, R. Neto, L. Jean-Charles  Coach: M. Williams

Offline PosImpos

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Very nice breakdown.

I must admit I hadn't really considered the idea of using Glen Davis solely as a backup center.  You present a compelling case for how that would make the most of Glen's skills; however, I have to wonder about his desire to play such a role, as it would prevent him from having as many scoring opportunities, especially from mid-range.  Also, I would hesitate to designate BBD our primary backup center if only because JO is almost guaranteed to miss significant time and I do not want BBD as our starting center for 15-30 games.  He just doesn't have the size to be a quality starting center.

I think you may be a bit too optimistic re: Sasha Pavlovic and Jeff Green, but it would certainly be nice if they were as good as you make them out to be.

I don't have much interest in Yi Jianlian.  He basically replicates what we got from BBD this last year, only he's less able to score inside, doesn't take charges or play good team defense, and he's a lot larger so he doesn't have any excuse to rebound as poorly as he does.  I'm similarly skeptical of Alexis Ajinca, who couldn't get playing time with the Bobcats despite their lack of big man depth.

Josh McRoberts is an interesting suggestion, although purportedly Memphis was willing to trade OJ Mayo for him at the deadline this season, so he may be valued too highly by other teams for us to acquire him with our limited financial means (although I'm not sure he's valued that way).

Even if things work out the way you have outlined here, and the players live up to your descriptions of them, my primary worry is still that, as you said, our starting 5 only seems capable of playing at an elite level for 25-28 minutes a game.  If you want to beat really good teams in a playoff series, you need your starters to play at an elite level for more like 38-40 minutes a game. 

You can't expect the bench to come in and maintain or extend a lead for 15+ minutes a game, unless you have an All-Star coming off the bench for you.
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Offline Celtics18

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Nice.  That's a strong, and realistic, lineup. 
DKC Seventy-Sixers:

PG: G. Hill/D. Schroder
SG: C. Lee/B. Hield/T. Luwawu
SF:  Giannis/J. Lamb/M. Kuzminskas
PF:  E. Ilyasova/J. Jerebko/R. Christmas
C:    N. Vucevic/K. Olynyk/E. Davis/C. Jefferson

Offline 2short

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TP!  I do like the reminder about sasha, he is a realistic swing man who can help.  I'd rather move davis for a true center sign & trade and let johnson get those backup/3rd string pf minutes.  I'd like to see Green be starting sf (not that he is anywhere near better than PP) turn paul into hondo.  Swingman off the bench who will destroy the other sf/sg and can end the game more rested.  Green can post other sf and give us some minutes at pf behind kg, any remaining minutes should go to the rookie.

Online Who

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I don't think there is a role available for Yi Jialian here.

JaJuan Johnson offers a similar enough skill-set at PF to make Yi redundant.

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my primary worry is still that, as you said, our starting 5 only seems capable of playing at an elite level for 25-28 minutes a game.  If you want to beat really good teams in a playoff series, you need your starters to play at an elite level for more like 38-40 minutes a game. 
In the regular season, I'd like to keep Garnett at about 32 minutes a contest and Pierce, Ray and Rondo in that 34 minute bracket.

In the playoffs, I think Rondo can relied upon to supply 40 high quality minutes a contest. Pierce and Ray around 36-38 minutes. Garnett 34-36 minutes.

The big problem (minutes wise), for me, is not the Big Four -- I am comfortable with the minutes they can offer -- but at that center position.

I have no confidence in Jermaine O'Neal being able to supply more than 20 minutes a game. That leaves a very big hole in that final starting position. I also have no confidence in Glen Davis being able to play more than 16-20mpg without seeing a big drop-off in his performance (defense/rebounding). So that big man rotation as a whole is very vulnerable outside of Mister Garnett come playoff time.

Offline Yogi

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http://www.backpicks.com/2011/03/26/measuring-teams-by-their-best-lineups-top-5-man-units/
   I think Glen Davis fills in pretty well with the starters.  That might have been one of the best line-ups in the league, before the playoff slump by Davis. 
   The big 3 saw their minutes go down last season and they were still gassed.  I think we need to face reality and drop their minutes significantly in order to compete in the post season.  I think we should limit our veterans to: Jermaine 25 min, KG 28 min, Ray Allen 30 min, Paul Pierce 30 min per game.  This would probably drop us to 5th seed in the eastern conference, but there is no way we're competing for top seeds, and home court advantage in the first round is just not worth the risk or the effort. 
   I like Jajuan Johnson and what he brings to the table.  I just don't believe rookies should be playing in the post season.  Yi at least has both Nba and international competition under his belt.  I would rather keep Jajuan as a project and as insurance in case of injuries. 
CelticsBlog DKC Pelicans
J. Lin/I. Canaan/N. Wolters
E. Gordon/A. Shved
N. Batum/A. Roberson
A. Davis/K. Olynyk/M. Scott
D. Cousins/A. Baynes/V. Faverani
Rights: A. Abrines, R. Neto, L. Jean-Charles  Coach: M. Williams

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   I like Jajuan Johnson and what he brings to the table.  I just don't believe rookies should be playing in the post season.  Yi at least has both Nba and international competition under his belt.  I would rather keep Jajuan as a project and as insurance in case of injuries. 
Agreed -- J.Johnson shouldn't be relied upon for rotation minutes. He should be a third string PF.

I feel the same way about Yi though. Third stringer. He hasn't shown enough to be given a rotation spot on a contender next season. Over his first three years, Yi has been a very poor defender + poor rebounder + very inefficient and largely ineffective offensive threat. He has an awful lot of work to do on his game to be a rotation worthy player. Too much of a risk for a team that badly needs reinforcements to it's big man rotation.

So in a choice between third string options -- Yi or JJJ -- I'd roll with JJJ.

-------------------------------------

Chris Wilcox and Josh McRoberts are both fine choices for the backup PF role. They have both proven themselves capable of providing quality play in a regular rotation role.

I like McRoberts a bit more than Wilcox but Wilcox will likely be available for short money (one year contract) so he'd be the more likely option.

-------------------------------------

I am also interested in Jeff Green in that backup PF role in a Travis Outlaw (Portland Trailblazers days) type role. Come in and take advantage of slower less athletic backup PFs who can't contain his quickness and dribble penetration + who frequently lack the offensive talent (backup PFs) to take advantage of Jeff on the other end of the court.

I'd like to see Jeff Green see time at both of the two forward positions. I think he'd provide a valuable matchup issue in a combo forward role.

Another potential solution to those backup PF minutes.

Offline BASS_THUMPER

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what if...

they played the bench more..

after rajon arm got twist..delonte took over..

*do like k brown tho..he been very underrated and we need a banger*

we never traded perk or allen..

kristc got more floor tyme...


hard for me to think about doin things diffrent when we had the tools and didnt use em

Offline action781

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I also like the idea of using Big Baby strictly as a backup center.  It certainly does play to his strengths.

So, we can resign Baby with Bird Rights.  That is a huge plus.  If we could somehow sign Carl Landry, Joel Pryzbilla, and Delonte West I would be ecstatic.  I don't know if the MLE is enough to get that done (or to what extent it will be around).  If the bi-annual is still around, that could be enough to get Joel or Delonte, which would make it easier.

But even if we CAN find a way to sign all these guys with what exceptions are possible... the question of "for how many years" comes into play and Danny Ainge's willingness to spend next summer's cap space.

2020 CelticsStrong All-2000s Draft -- Utah Jazz
 
Finals Starters:  Jason Kidd - Reggie Miller - PJ Tucker - Al Horford - Shaq
Bench:  Rajon Rondo - Trae Young - Marcus Smart - Jaylen Brown -  Peja Stojakovic - Jamal Mashburn - Carlos Boozer - Tristan Thompson - Mehmet Okur

Offline bfrombleacher

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I agree with most of it. I like that you see the upside in Bradley.

Our PF depth is much better than our C depth considering that we have KG, Jeff Green, Jajuan Johnson and Troy Murphy (who I think Ainge should and will seriously consider) even if you factor out Glen Davis.

I'm just very concerned about having a 6'9 overweight player as the backup center we rely on. Kwame Brown should do decently since being a center for the Celtics is pretty easy (play good defense and catch a Rondo pass for the easy, easy finish).

Troy Murphy in my opinion is a more important resigning than Sasha Pavlovic as he provides the passable center depth I think we so desperately need. Although keeping him can't hurt at all since you can't have too many shooters and decent defenders.