we're doing our first all-gran currently - it's a Hefeweizen, which we did with a kit the 1st time, so we'll have a source of comparison - in between we did a red ale, which we called a sweet red, b/c we used honey to add fermentable sugars, came out decent, better than Killian's in our opinion, but not as good as Sam's Irish Red
ps sometime try a Killian's side by side with a Sam Irish - it's sad how much better the Sam's is...
interesting side note, a guy I know is making a Steak Ale...sounds dangerous