so NOW Lebron is the BEST Passer of ALL time?

[chelsearules]

abc guys drinking the koolaid as usual

[ChainSmokingLikeDino]

Read what I said carefully....Jordan might be the greatest---But, this pronouncement came with a HUGE amount of  hype at the time---with everyone crowning him the best ever-totally forgetting what others had done in the past.

Jordan was Amazing---But, he had nobody to compete against in his prime( 6 different opponents in the finals )---Magic had Bird, Russell had Wilt, etc.

To quote Mark Jackson, as this thread was about the ABC broadcast, "Come on now! You're better than that!"

'91 - Lakers. Goes without saying who was on this tam.
'92 - Trail Blazers. Drexler and Porter in their primes, amongst others (and Ainge)
'93 - Suns. Barkley, KJ, Majerle, Chambers, and Ainge again.
'96 - Sonics. Kemp, Payton, Schremp, Perkins, Hawkins
'97 - Jazz. Stockton, Malone Hornacek.
'98 - Ibid.

So, not only not 6 different teams in the finals, but hardly slouches through and through. And except for the Lakers they all went 6 games.

As for the best passer comments. Well, a large part of this can be explaind that it is a shtick. Just like Walton was fond of calling things "the worst pass in the history of the franchise" there is a total odd-couple kind of thing going on with JVG and Jackson, former coach/player who are quite friendly. Van Gundy has a very dry, New York kind of sense of humor and I think a lot of the reactions here are taking what is a broadcasting shtick as being entirely sincere or serious. Take a look at his interviews in the 30 for 30: Winning Time that just aired last night, and is excellent (highly highly recomended), for an idea of how knowledgeable this guy is about basketball.

[blackbird]

Just as the national announcers are over the top in their LBJ love, this site is over the top in its LBJ bashing. He is great. He is the best player in the league (by a wide margin in my opinion).

The OP noted (then ignored for some reason) that they said NON-PG passer. Then everyone here freaks out and says things like, what about Rondo, Nash, Cousy, Magic, etc. All point guards. Way to pay attention, guys. I am an idiot.

Is he better than Bird? Who cares. It doesn't matter. For what it's worth (not much) I think Bird was better, but I'm not objective. I also think that Sabonis was a better passing big man than Bird.

Regardless, LBJ is a great passer. I don't think he is lacking in any basketball skill, to be honest.

I'm the OP...and Van Gundy took it to Best Passer ever---NOT just NON PG.

Okay, I'm embarrassed. Forgive me.

[pearljammer10]

I hate how all the focus is put on LeBron. Every five seconds his stupid stat line is shown under a close up of him...The announcers were going bonkers over him having 2 points, 3 rebounds, and an assists in the first like, 6 minutes of the game...Give me a break.

[MaxwellSmart86]

Read what I said carefully....Jordan might be the greatest---But, this pronouncement came with a HUGE amount of  hype at the time---with everyone crowning him the best ever-totally forgetting what others had done in the past.

Jordan was Amazing---But, he had nobody to compete against in his prime( 6 different opponents in the finals )---Magic had Bird, Russell had Wilt, etc.

To quote Mark Jackson, as this thread was about the ABC broadcast, "Come on now! You're better than that!"

'91 - Lakers. Goes without saying who was on this tam.
'92 - Trail Blazers. Drexler and Porter in their primes, amongst others (and Ainge)
'93 - Suns. Barkley, KJ, Majerle, Chambers, and Ainge again.
'96 - Sonics. Kemp, Payton, Schremp, Perkins, Hawkins
'97 - Jazz. Stockton, Malone Hornacek.
'98 - Ibid.

So, not only not 6 different teams in the finals, but hardly slouches through and through. And except for the Lakers they all went 6 games.

As for the best passer comments. Well, a large part of this can be explaind that it is a shtick. Just like Walton was fond of calling things "the worst pass in the history of the franchise" there is a total odd-couple kind of thing going on with JVG and Jackson, former coach/player who are quite friendly. Van Gundy has a very dry, New York kind of sense of humor and I think a lot of the reactions here are taking what is a broadcasting shtick as being entirely sincere or serious. Take a look at his interviews in the 30 for 30: Winning Time that just aired last night, and is excellent (highly highly recomended), for an idea of how knowledgeable this guy is about basketball.

Like I said, Larry had to go against Philly, The Lakers and Detroit....Magic had to go against The C's and Philly, Russell had to go against Wilt in Philly and the West/Baylor Lakers.....Jordan had NO SUCH Dominant team(s)---maybe very good One year teams.

[ChainSmokingLikeDino]

Read what I said carefully....Jordan might be the greatest---But, this pronouncement came with a HUGE amount of  hype at the time---with everyone crowning him the best ever-totally forgetting what others had done in the past.

Jordan was Amazing---But, he had nobody to compete against in his prime( 6 different opponents in the finals )---Magic had Bird, Russell had Wilt, etc.

To quote Mark Jackson, as this thread was about the ABC broadcast, "Come on now! You're better than that!"

'91 - Lakers. Goes without saying who was on this tam.
'92 - Trail Blazers. Drexler and Porter in their primes, amongst others (and Ainge)
'93 - Suns. Barkley, KJ, Majerle, Chambers, and Ainge again.
'96 - Sonics. Kemp, Payton, Schremp, Perkins, Hawkins
'97 - Jazz. Stockton, Malone Hornacek.
'98 - Ibid.

So, not only not 6 different teams in the finals, but hardly slouches through and through. And except for the Lakers they all went 6 games.

As for the best passer comments. Well, a large part of this can be explaind that it is a shtick. Just like Walton was fond of calling things "the worst pass in the history of the franchise" there is a total odd-couple kind of thing going on with JVG and Jackson, former coach/player who are quite friendly. Van Gundy has a very dry, New York kind of sense of humor and I think a lot of the reactions here are taking what is a broadcasting shtick as being entirely sincere or serious. Take a look at his interviews in the 30 for 30: Winning Time that just aired last night, and is excellent (highly highly recomended), for an idea of how knowledgeable this guy is about basketball.

Like I said, Larry had to go against Philly, The Lakers and Detroit....Magic had to go against The C's and Philly, Russell had to go against Wilt in Philly and the West/Baylor Lakers.....Jordan had NO SUCH Dominant team(s)---maybe very good One year teams.

The same Detroit team that The Bulls eventually surpassed in '91?
In '89 and '90 The Bulls lost to Detroit in the conference finals and in '91 they got past them to beat those very same Lakers.

In '92 and '93 they played in the conference finals and semi's those Knicks teams which always gave them a battle. Again playing The Knicks in '96 to then play in back to back years a very good Utah team. Just seems you are being a bit selective in your viewing of history. Does the '86 Championship go down a notch because the Celtics played Houston and not L.A?

[guava_wrench]

I hate how all the focus is put on LeBron. Every five seconds his stupid stat line is shown under a close up of him...The announcers were going bonkers over him having 2 points, 3 rebounds, and an assists in the first like, 6 minutes of the game...Give me a break.

That gets you worked up? What if it was Rondo in last years playoffs? Did that annoy you to?

How about Perk talking about how Lebron is a great leader after the game and how the team feeds off of his effort? Did that make you angry?

[guava_wrench]

Read what I said carefully....Jordan might be the greatest---But, this pronouncement came with a HUGE amount of  hype at the time---with everyone crowning him the best ever-totally forgetting what others had done in the past.

Jordan was Amazing---But, he had nobody to compete against in his prime( 6 different opponents in the finals )---Magic had Bird, Russell had Wilt, etc.

To quote Mark Jackson, as this thread was about the ABC broadcast, "Come on now! You're better than that!"

'91 - Lakers. Goes without saying who was on this tam.
'92 - Trail Blazers. Drexler and Porter in their primes, amongst others (and Ainge)
'93 - Suns. Barkley, KJ, Majerle, Chambers, and Ainge again.
'96 - Sonics. Kemp, Payton, Schremp, Perkins, Hawkins
'97 - Jazz. Stockton, Malone Hornacek.
'98 - Ibid.

So, not only not 6 different teams in the finals, but hardly slouches through and through. And except for the Lakers they all went 6 games.

As for the best passer comments. Well, a large part of this can be explaind that it is a shtick. Just like Walton was fond of calling things "the worst pass in the history of the franchise" there is a total odd-couple kind of thing going on with JVG and Jackson, former coach/player who are quite friendly. Van Gundy has a very dry, New York kind of sense of humor and I think a lot of the reactions here are taking what is a broadcasting shtick as being entirely sincere or serious. Take a look at his interviews in the 30 for 30: Winning Time that just aired last night, and is excellent (highly highly recomended), for an idea of how knowledgeable this guy is about basketball.

Like I said, Larry had to go against Philly, The Lakers and Detroit....Magic had to go against The C's and Philly, Russell had to go against Wilt in Philly and the West/Baylor Lakers.....Jordan had NO SUCH Dominant team(s)---maybe very good One year teams.

The same Detroit team that The Bulls eventually surpassed in '91?
In '89 and '90 The Bulls lost to Detroit in the conference finals and in '91 they got past them to beat those very same Lakers.

In '92 and '93 they played in the conference finals and semi's those Knicks teams which always gave them a battle. Again playing The Knicks in '96 to then play in back to back years a very good Utah team. Just seems you are being a bit selective in your viewing of history. Does the '86 Championship go down a notch because the Celtics played Houston and not L.A?

Your post poignantly points out how misguided discussions like this are.

We need to point out had relatively bad players were in Russell's time. The talent just wasn't there back then. Do what?

Odd to have this discussion result from a discussion of passing ability.

[steve]

It's so easy these days to give up titles - the best whatever of all time while ignoring the past.

Sometimes it works in reverse.  People are blind to the future stars because they have such an emotional attachment to the past stars.