Dog Behavior (Split from Pierce Twitter thread)

[Eja117]

Nick, how many breeds of dogs have you had? I've only come into close contact with three. I'm not counting the bulls. When I was pretty young there was a shiitzu, but it died when I was sixish and we got it used. I can't claim it as much of a representative experience. Then there was a dalmation from 3rd grade till after college. Then my parents got sheltie sheep dogs from about college on, so that's gotta be around 7-10 years.

My bro has had the good pit maybe one year, but I've only seen it a few times.

[Redz]

Are there bad mosquitoes?

[nickagneta]

eja, I'm sorry but I am not going to continue this discussion. You have no idea what you are talking about and yet you continue to be argumentative and disagreeable. You have a long history of such in other threads and I refuse to discuss a subject further that you know nothing about.

The fact that you think your brother is a good dog trainer even though he uses physical abuse as a training technique just goes to show just how far from credible anything you have to say on the subject is.

[Eja117]

Are there bad mosquitoes?

The ones with malaria are

[Eja117]

eja, I'm sorry but I am not going to continue this discussion. You have no idea what you are talking about and yet you continue to be argumentative and disagreeable. You have a long history of such in other threads and I refuse to discuss a subject further that you know nothing about.

The fact that you think your brother is a good dog trainer even though he uses physical abuse as a training technique just goes to show just how far from credible anything you have to say on the subject is.

Why I am always the one that is argumentative and disagreeable? I'm sorry but if you can't convince people that have been attacked and seen unprovoked attacks by dogs that there are no bad dogs, that just means you didn't convince them nick. This is the old "What do you believe? Me or your own eyes" routine and I'll be going with my eyes, but not because I'm argumentative or disagreeable. You say I am biased by my encounters with dogs. That's fine, but you are obviously emotionally attached to yours.

Ok fine nick. There are no bad dogs. Only dogs that attack people unprovoked which is always somebody else's fault and I have no idea what I am talking about. There's no such thing as a dangerous animal that people shouldn't own, and everything bad that happens with animals is the fault of people and my brother uses physical abuse because he uses a technique that every mommy in America uses on their 3 year old. There is no difference between my parent's shetland sheep dog, all pit bulls, and wolves. You have convinced me.

My comments were in the context of normal pet ownership in suburbia, our cities, and towns. Of course a husky is a good dog in its natural environment where it can run 20 miles a day. Not necessarily as good a pet.

[Eja117]

On the news the other day a husky snatched a baby out of a crib and I think killed it. The owner is forgiving saying it was more of a chew toy type situation than an attack.
I find it odd that my fear of dogs like Pit bulls, huskies, and roties is that I compare them to wolves, and then a dog that is practically a wolf in appearance and ability kills a baby in the most unwolflike and most doglike behavior possible.

Also a police German shepherd bit an old woman three times when she tried to defend her much smaller dog from it.  I would think that a police dog would be the best trained there is.

I still don't think you can breed or train 100% of the danger out of wolves. Both cases are unprovoked.
It would be nice if they wouldn't attack even if provoked other than to defend themselves or their owners.

[indeedproceed]

On the news the other day a husky snatched a baby out of a crib and I think killed it. The owner is forgiving saying it was more of a chew toy type situation than an attack.
I find it odd that my fear of dogs like Pit bulls, huskies, and roties is that I compare them to wolves, and then a dog that is practically a wolf in appearance and ability kills a baby in the most unwolflike and most doglike behavior possible.

Also a police German shepherd bit an old woman three times when she tried to defend her much smaller dog from it.  I would think that a police dog would be the best trained there is.

I still don't think you can breed or train 100% of the danger out of wolves. Both cases are unprovoked.
It would be nice if they wouldn't attack even if provoked other than to defend themselves or their owners.

People kill people all the time, I don't understand why the actions of a very small % of dogs would condemn an entire breed.

Sure, you need to take precaution, but if the story above is even true, its not anything that should be used to make legislation or anything.

[Eja117]

On the news the other day a husky snatched a baby out of a crib and I think killed it. The owner is forgiving saying it was more of a chew toy type situation than an attack.
I find it odd that my fear of dogs like Pit bulls, huskies, and roties is that I compare them to wolves, and then a dog that is practically a wolf in appearance and ability kills a baby in the most unwolflike and most doglike behavior possible.

Also a police German shepherd bit an old woman three times when she tried to defend her much smaller dog from it.  I would think that a police dog would be the best trained there is.

I still don't think you can breed or train 100% of the danger out of wolves. Both cases are unprovoked.
It would be nice if they wouldn't attack even if provoked other than to defend themselves or their owners.

People kill people all the time, I don't understand why the actions of a very small % of dogs would condemn an entire breed.

Sure, you need to take precaution, but if the story above is even true, its not anything that should be used to make legislation or anything.

It's not that it's the actions of a few dogs. It's the potential consequences. People could probably own tigers and things and keep them in cages, and there would probably be very few severe accidents, but people still shouldn't own them. I'm not sure what you have to be able to do to own them. I imagine there's some sort of licensing issue.

I'm surprised that some states outlawed ferrets. They're practically harmless

[indeedproceed]

On the news the other day a husky snatched a baby out of a crib and I think killed it. The owner is forgiving saying it was more of a chew toy type situation than an attack.
I find it odd that my fear of dogs like Pit bulls, huskies, and roties is that I compare them to wolves, and then a dog that is practically a wolf in appearance and ability kills a baby in the most unwolflike and most doglike behavior possible.

Also a police German shepherd bit an old woman three times when she tried to defend her much smaller dog from it.  I would think that a police dog would be the best trained there is.

I still don't think you can breed or train 100% of the danger out of wolves. Both cases are unprovoked.
It would be nice if they wouldn't attack even if provoked other than to defend themselves or their owners.

People kill people all the time, I don't understand why the actions of a very small % of dogs would condemn an entire breed.

Sure, you need to take precaution, but if the story above is even true, its not anything that should be used to make legislation or anything.

It's not that it's the actions of a few dogs. It's the potential consequences. People could probably own tigers and things and keep them in cages, and there would probably be very few severe accidents, but people still shouldn't own them. I'm not sure what you have to be able to do to own them. I imagine there's some sort of licensing issue.

I'm surprised that some states outlawed ferrets. They're practically harmless

What are the potential consequences? I'm not being smart I don't really fully understand your point I guess.

[Eja117]

On the news the other day a husky snatched a baby out of a crib and I think killed it. The owner is forgiving saying it was more of a chew toy type situation than an attack.
I find it odd that my fear of dogs like Pit bulls, huskies, and roties is that I compare them to wolves, and then a dog that is practically a wolf in appearance and ability kills a baby in the most unwolflike and most doglike behavior possible.

Also a police German shepherd bit an old woman three times when she tried to defend her much smaller dog from it.  I would think that a police dog would be the best trained there is.

I still don't think you can breed or train 100% of the danger out of wolves. Both cases are unprovoked.
It would be nice if they wouldn't attack even if provoked other than to defend themselves or their owners.

People kill people all the time, I don't understand why the actions of a very small % of dogs would condemn an entire breed.

Sure, you need to take precaution, but if the story above is even true, its not anything that should be used to make legislation or anything.

It's not that it's the actions of a few dogs. It's the potential consequences. People could probably own tigers and things and keep them in cages, and there would probably be very few severe accidents, but people still shouldn't own them. I'm not sure what you have to be able to do to own them. I imagine there's some sort of licensing issue.

I'm surprised that some states outlawed ferrets. They're practically harmless

What are the potential consequences? I'm not being smart I don't really fully understand your point I guess.

I agree that well trained dogs and dogs in general aren't dangerous, but sometimes their potential to be extremely dangerous should outweigh other considerations. People should come first.
I think it would be nice if people would be proactive on this instead of reactive. Instead of being told "You're just paranoid and if something ever happens to you or your family from a dog we'll throw the guy in jail and you can sue him" I'd rather here "We're going to make it so that never happens."

[indeedproceed]

On the news the other day a husky snatched a baby out of a crib and I think killed it. The owner is forgiving saying it was more of a chew toy type situation than an attack.
I find it odd that my fear of dogs like Pit bulls, huskies, and roties is that I compare them to wolves, and then a dog that is practically a wolf in appearance and ability kills a baby in the most unwolflike and most doglike behavior possible.

Also a police German shepherd bit an old woman three times when she tried to defend her much smaller dog from it.  I would think that a police dog would be the best trained there is.

I still don't think you can breed or train 100% of the danger out of wolves. Both cases are unprovoked.
It would be nice if they wouldn't attack even if provoked other than to defend themselves or their owners.

People kill people all the time, I don't understand why the actions of a very small % of dogs would condemn an entire breed.

Sure, you need to take precaution, but if the story above is even true, its not anything that should be used to make legislation or anything.

It's not that it's the actions of a few dogs. It's the potential consequences. People could probably own tigers and things and keep them in cages, and there would probably be very few severe accidents, but people still shouldn't own them. I'm not sure what you have to be able to do to own them. I imagine there's some sort of licensing issue.

I'm surprised that some states outlawed ferrets. They're practically harmless

What are the potential consequences? I'm not being smart I don't really fully understand your point I guess.

I agree that well trained dogs and dogs in general aren't dangerous, but sometimes their potential to be extremely dangerous should outweigh other considerations. People should come first.
I think it would be nice if people would be proactive on this instead of reactive. Instead of being told "You're just paranoid and if something ever happens to you or your family from a dog we'll throw the guy in jail and you can sue him" I'd rather here "We're going to make it so that never happens."

This is a strange kind of stance for you to take considering your usual trend with politics.

In fact, I'd say this is the exact line of thinking people use for gun control laws.

The line of "our government needs to protect us" and "we should have the common sense to do the right thing ourselves" is a very delicate one. I don't think it should extend to a breed of dog. I guess its an opinion thing.

[Eja117]

On the news the other day a husky snatched a baby out of a crib and I think killed it. The owner is forgiving saying it was more of a chew toy type situation than an attack.
I find it odd that my fear of dogs like Pit bulls, huskies, and roties is that I compare them to wolves, and then a dog that is practically a wolf in appearance and ability kills a baby in the most unwolflike and most doglike behavior possible.

Also a police German shepherd bit an old woman three times when she tried to defend her much smaller dog from it.  I would think that a police dog would be the best trained there is.

I still don't think you can breed or train 100% of the danger out of wolves. Both cases are unprovoked.
It would be nice if they wouldn't attack even if provoked other than to defend themselves or their owners.

People kill people all the time, I don't understand why the actions of a very small % of dogs would condemn an entire breed.

Sure, you need to take precaution, but if the story above is even true, its not anything that should be used to make legislation or anything.

It's not that it's the actions of a few dogs. It's the potential consequences. People could probably own tigers and things and keep them in cages, and there would probably be very few severe accidents, but people still shouldn't own them. I'm not sure what you have to be able to do to own them. I imagine there's some sort of licensing issue.

I'm surprised that some states outlawed ferrets. They're practically harmless

What are the potential consequences? I'm not being smart I don't really fully understand your point I guess.

I agree that well trained dogs and dogs in general aren't dangerous, but sometimes their potential to be extremely dangerous should outweigh other considerations. People should come first.
I think it would be nice if people would be proactive on this instead of reactive. Instead of being told "You're just paranoid and if something ever happens to you or your family from a dog we'll throw the guy in jail and you can sue him" I'd rather here "We're going to make it so that never happens."

This is a strange kind of stance for you to take considering your usual trend with politics.

In fact, I'd say this is the exact line of thinking people use for gun control laws.

The line of "our government needs to protect us" and "we should have the common sense to do the right thing ourselves" is a very delicate one. I don't think it should extend to a breed of dog. I guess its an opinion thing.

I follow the Constitution where it says something like "In order to maintain a well regulated militia the rights of the people to bear arms shall not be infringed on"

Forgiving that there are lots of interpretations nobody says that means that a minor should be allowed to own a nuclear weapon even if a weapon is an arm.

But I'm definitely against owning tigers, dangerous snakes, and wolves and other zoning problems. Maybe if you lived in the middle of Montana or something with the nearest neighbor hundreds of miles away, but not in the context of modern life.

I see what you are saying where maybe I come off as a personal freedom liberty guy who would be against regulations governing behavior, but if you went 180 degrees the other way on it and said anybody ought to be able to own and do anything they want with any animal they want then I guess I'd want the freedom to gun down any animal I see fit at any time, and I just don't think that would be a good freedom to have. It's kind of one way or the other.

It's kind of more like a pool or something. It's an attractive nuisance. Gotta put a fence around it. You can't have something dangerous like a land mine in your front yard and if a kid blows up their leg be like "Well it was on my property and the kid shouldn't have been there." Even though a land mine is an "arm"

[nickagneta]

Now you are comparing dogs to tigers, wolves, deadly poisonous snakes and other nearly impossible to tame and train animals? Dogs that have been working animals and domesticated animals for centuries are now the equivalent of tigers??

I've owned boxers(obviously, but more than one), a black lab(great dog), a Pomeranian(she never stopped yapping but loved being loved) and a Sheltie/German Shepard mix. Ny sister's partner is a dog officer and I have had intimate and prolonged contact with trained police dogs(Austrian German Shepards, Belgiun Malinois and Short Haired Black Lab). I have a lot of experience with dogs and am convinced a dog is only as good as the owner that trains them. Some pit bulls and dobies that I have seen have been as gentle as lambs. A friend owned an English Mastiff, simply the biggest mushball of a dog you could ever imagine.

[Roy Hobbs]

I have a lot of experience with dogs and am convinced a dog is only as good as the owner that trains them.

While I'm sure nurture is the predominant factor in determining a dog's disposition, I think it's just a proven fact that certain dogs are more aggressive than others.  There are more examples of domesticated pit bulls "snapping" and attacking babies and children than there are with other breeds, for example.  I don't think that's a coincidence; it's common sense that certain dogs that have been bred for their aggressiveness and killer instinct for centuries would retain some of that.

[nickagneta]

I have a lot of experience with dogs and am convinced a dog is only as good as the owner that trains them.

While I'm sure nurture is the predominant factor in determining a dog's disposition, I think it's just a proven fact that certain dogs are more aggressive than others.  There are more examples of domesticated pit bulls "snapping" and attacking babies and children than there are with other breeds, for example.  I don't think that's a coincidence; it's common sense that certain dogs that have been bred for their aggressiveness and killer instinct for centuries would retain some of that.

And I am not saying that there aren't certain breeds that have aggressive tendencies. Quite the opposite. If you read the thread I say that those dogs require more experienced dog owners. Owners that can train those breeds properly so that the aggressive tendency that is in them does not come forth.

The problem is, especially in urban areas, pit bulls are owned by people as protection and as a status symbol. Most of these people are clueless as to the amount of day in and day out routine, exercise, discipline and training these breeds need. When the dogs don't just listen to them they use violence as a training technique which teaches the dog aggression as an answer.

It really is sad that this excellent breed is now being so misused and that people have gotten such a bad idea about these dogs. Boxers, 80 years ago were some of the most ferocious dog fighting dogs there were. They were bred specifically for dog fighting. Today they are widely regarded as the best family dog breed due to their loyalty and love of children and ability to train easily. Pit bulls, for all their aggressive reputations are very intelligent dogs. Not Poodle or Jack Russell Terrier intelligent, but very intelligent. The breed is fairly young and needs to be handled properly so that the aggressive nature is eventually bred out.

I just think to outlaw the breed is ridiculous. The problem is with the dog factory type kennels that breed the pit bulls and sell them to anyone. This type of crap is the problem. Proper pit bull breeders are a lot more selective as to who they sell their litters to.