C's interested in trading for C.J. Miles

[Brickowski]

Well, the Celtics have plenty of shooting guards but the only ones who have proven to be rotation worthy are Ray Allen and Eddie House (or Pierce if he is playing that position).  Frankly I don't see any rotation worthy shooting guards on the Summer league team, certainly not on an NBA team with championship aspirations.

Pruitt might be rotation worty as a pg if he steps up his game, but that's about it.

[Evantime34]

The idea of making this deal is attractive...  Other than that, I really don't see a reason for it.  I think dumping TA and some other dead weight could be addition by subtraction, but the two points I would make are:

1)  I think if you hold off until mid season with these contract pieces, you give yourself more options, and a better chance to fill any holes that end up emerging through the season.  If no holes emerge, you can dump them for a young gun, or hold them for the cap space.

2)  C.J. Miles, while a good player, doesn't bring many things that the Celtics actually NEED on this squad.  If we are trading these pieces to bring in a guy that is going to be playing limited minutes at the backup 2 to play some D and get the small, effort plays made, then I would rather see Walker/Hudson/Giddens (In that order) fill those minutes and hold onto those contracts.  

I just don't see Miles as being a large enough upgrade to contribute in the small amount of minutes we are offering this role.

1. If we wait until the deadline then we have to carry what amounts to 3 dead weight players on the roster until then. With the Sheed signing more vets are probably interested in us for the min, so if we trade a 3 for 1 that's 2 more vets we can sign. Also if we keep these guys till the end of the season the cap space gained when their contracts run out won't help us because we will be over the cap anyway.
2. Maybe his play this year will be negligible with that of one of the other young guys but he is a better long term prospect.

[the_Bird]

I'm not sure that all the guys you're calling "dead weight" won't be of any help.  As it stands right now, Scal's our fourth big (and not horrible in that role, especially since he can play a little bit at SF as well).  Tony Allen, yeah, I hope he doesn't see the court this year, and the kids haven't proven anything.  But, if Scalabrine goes, we NEED to bring someone else in to replace him.  Is the upgrade from TA to CJ enough to justify that?

Of course, if BBD re-signs (still unlikely), Scal becomes more expendable.  Today, though - we need the bloke!

[Evantime34]

I'm not sure that all the guys you're calling "dead weight" won't be of any help.  As it stands right now, Scal's our fourth big (and not horrible in that role, especially since he can play a little bit at SF as well).  Tony Allen, yeah, I hope he doesn't see the court this year, and the kids haven't proven anything.  But, if Scalabrine goes, we NEED to bring someone else in to replace him.  Is the upgrade from TA to CJ enough to justify that?

Of course, if BBD re-signs (still unlikely), Scal becomes more expendable.  Today, though - we need the bloke!

I didn't include Scals in the dead weight group. His contract would make the salary numbers not work if you added him to TA, Pruitt and Giddens or Walker. By dead weight I mean other than practice they will not contribute to the team this year.

[paintitgreen]

I just don't think Miles is the answer for us.

But the previous posts make me want to set forth some of my overall views. My philosophy is this. I want 12 guys who can play minutes (not all of them will play) leaving only 3 spots for "projects" (i.e., Walker, Giddens, Hudson, Pruitt, etc.). If you frontload enough of those spots with very strong players, there's more room for projects.  

Going off the Bird's comments, we now have, in my mind, a very good starting lineup, a very good bench big, and a good but small bench wing player. Scal is good as a fifth big, and adequate as a fourth with the 3 bigs we have. TA could conceivably be used as a fifth wing, but I don't see him being that far ahead of, say, Walker, and TA is just paid way too much to still be in that position, so he has to go somehow. He's just older and more expensive, not better, than Walker. But for either of those guys to be the fifth wing, we need a true third wing pushing House to the 4th wing spot. We also need one guy who can play 10 minutes a night as a point guard (I agree with Who that with House as one of our three good wings, a third point guard is unnecessary).

So one of our needs - backup PG and our primary need at backup wing - has to be filled by trade. This Miles deal just doesn't seem to fit the bill. He probably has the size for the 3 and can play the 2, but I just don't see him as a better player than House, which is really what we need. If we were signing him for cheap money, then I'd be happy to do it. But he's reminiscent of Scal to me - I think his ideal role is as the 4th wing behind 3 very good wings or a 5th wing. Scal, as we all have said for years until his contract became expiring, is overpaid for his role. Miles makes more than Scal - so isn't he just as overpaid, and for a longer time?

I agree that we have to fill a need by trade, but in my mind, if we're taking on a good-sized salary in the trade, that player has to be the 7th best player on our team, doesn't have to be as good as Sheed, but has to be better than House. I just don't see that with Miles.

[amenhotep04]

I see no reason to trade for Miles.  People here tend to view anyone new as superstars.  I want to trade TA, but not to get Miles.  I think Gabe, JR, and Walker can put up equal to or better numbers than Miles if given the same amount of playing time on that Utah team.  They may not shoot the three as well, but their overall games would be better.

[Who]

But the previous posts make me want to set forth some of my overall views. My philosophy is this. I want 12 guys who can play minutes (not all of them will play) leaving only 3 spots for "projects" (i.e., Walker, Giddens, Hudson, Pruitt, etc.). If you frontload enough of those spots with very strong players, there's more room for projects. 

Good topic. The way I want the team organized is as follows:

First Preference

Guards -- Rondo, House and Pruitt
Wings -- Pierce, Ray, first wing off the bench, second wing off the bench
Bigs -- KG, Perk, Sheed, fourth big, Scalabrine

That's 12 players who I am happy to rely on in their roles. With the final three roster spots, I'd like to see Giddens, Walker and Powe.

Second Preference

Since, I'm unlikely to get my wish of Eddie House as the backup PG, my preferred team format would change to:

Guards -- Rondo, primary backup guard
Wings -- Pierce, Ray, first wing off the bench, Eddie House, fifth wing
Bigs -- KG, Perk, Sheed, fourth big, Scal

Then three roster spots for Giddens, Walker and Powe.

Eddie House swings to the second backup wing slot since he'll be playing shooting guard, but he can double up and act as the third string PG. Since Eddie is a bad wing, due to his defensive + rebounding limitations, I think the Celtics need another wing with decent size that they can rely on (likely be TA, but he wouldn't be my choice).

Overall

For me, both the starters and the projects are settled. Sheed, House and Scal also have fairly settled roles.

The only gaps left to filled are 3-4 roster spots, who all should be rotation worthy players. Two wings and a big man, and possibly another PG depending on where they want to use Eddie House.

[Tradetime]

This kid's game reminds me a lot of Mo Peterson a few years ago when he was still relevant. He likes the threeball, a lot, and has some athleticism to him. I don't think trading Tony Allen and other such players on our team for him, if Utah is willing, would be a bad trade at all.

I think this move would be a nod toward the future for our team.

[paintitgreen]

Who, I agree with you pretty much completely. Well put. TP. The big issue for me comes down to this - do we get a wing who can play the 3 and the 4 in small lineups (making Baby more expendable since there are even fewer minutes available up front), which has been my ideal, or do we get a wing who can play the 3 and the 2 (making Davis more necessary and Scalabrine more expendable). That only becomes important if we're making a trade to bring the guy in, since one of those two PFs will likely have to be included.

[xmuscularghandix]

I see no reason to trade for Miles.  People here tend to view anyone new as superstars.  I want to trade TA, but not to get Miles.  I think Gabe, JR, and Walker can put up equal to or better numbers than Miles if given the same amount of playing time on that Utah team.  They may not shoot the three as well, but their overall games would be better.

Good call. CJ Miles is nothing special. Think if The Celtics put Bill Walker out there and actually tried to get him into scoring situations (posting up as a 2guard, alley oops, mid-range pick&pops, open 3's of off doubleteams) He'd easily put up number greater than or equal to CJ Miles.

[greg683x]

I see no reason to trade for Miles.  People here tend to view anyone new as superstars.  I want to trade TA, but not to get Miles.  I think Gabe, JR, and Walker can put up equal to or better numbers than Miles if given the same amount of playing time on that Utah team.  They may not shoot the three as well, but their overall games would be better.

Good call. CJ Miles is nothing special. Think if The Celtics put Bill Walker out there and actually tried to get him into scoring situations (posting up as a 2guard, alley oops, mid-range pick&pops, open 3's of off doubleteams) He'd easily put up number greater than or equal to CJ Miles.

While I somewhat I agree with you about Walker possibly being able to put up similar numbers givin the right circumstances, I would also like to point out that Bill Walker had 6 fouls last night in 20 minutes in a summer league game against an opponet thats really full of nobodys.  Can we really count on him or Giddens to be able to stay on the court long enough on a consistent basis to really be a true backup?

Im not in favor of picking up CJ Miles, I think we can find someone better for cheaper, however Im not in favor of just being satisfied with the notion that Walker or Giddens might be able to step up and contribute at the backup 2/3.  Didnt we do that last year and had it end horribly?  I know they both have a year under their belt now, but they still both looked very very raw to me last night in that summer league game.

[SCBirdman]

All these guys need is playing time. Every time a guy plays significant minutes, the game slows down for them and they become more and more comfortable.

I coached high level high school prep school and small college basketball for 14 years. From experience, a guy has to play to get a comfort level. That does not come with sporatic play. It comes from being on the floor consistently and getting comfortable with the system, both offensively and defensively.

I DO think Gabe, JR and Walker are NBA players, they just need some seasoning, and to get that, they need to play minutes on a regular basis during the regular season.

JR will show some things this season. I think he will elevate his game.Same for Billy. I just don't know if Gabe will get our of Doc's doghouse.

I agree with other posters that unless we can make a really sweet deal this summer, we should hold on to Scal and TA until the deadline. Better players will be available, plus DA and Doc will know exactly what piece or pieces are needed to push our team over the top.