DET / BOS / OKC draft day trade

[ssspence]

There have been rumors of a swap between DET and OKC involving Amir Johnson and the 15th pick. I like the idea of picking up Amir Johnson as an athletic energy player behind KG and Perk. I’m also not hugely find of signing Baby to a long deal if the market dictates as such, and would like to get something for him. Detroit gets it’s cap space, we get Amir and Sam Young, OKC gets Baby – a local kid – providing rebounding and some chops, and a center they covet.

Can someone (Roy) please confirm for me if this works under the cap considering 1) OKC’s space, and 2) a moderate salary for Baby – say 4 mil thru 3, 4 years? Also, can Baby be sign-and-trade in a three-way like this? Thanks.

DET trades:

Amir Johnson
15th Pick

DET receives:

Whatever – a future 2nd from OKC. Their goal is to create cap space

BOS trades:

Big Baby

BOS receives:

Amir Johnson
25th pick (used to take Sam Young)

OKC trades:

25th pick
A future pick to DET

OKC receives:

Big Baby
15th pick (used to take BJ Mullins)

[indeedproceed]

Why is Detroit in this? To trim Amir Johnson's 3.6 off the books for next to nothing? I don't think its likely.

[ssspence]

Why is Detroit in this? To trim Amir Johnson's 3.6 off the books for next to nothing? I don't think its likely.

They've long been rumored to want to rid themselves of both the rookie deal coming with the 15th pick and Amir to clear another 5 mil in cap space for Ben Gorden and Boozer or Millsap. There's now a rumor around that Sam Presti may facilitate it considering their cap space. Would he rather have Baby or Johnson?

[Roy Hobbs]

I don't think it works from our end.  It depends upon the contract BBD signs, but it's probably not going to work under base year compensation rules. 

Here's what I wrote on the front page in that regard:

Let's say BBD signs for $4 million in the first year, and we want to trade him to Team X.

For BYC purposes, BBD's salary counts as a $2 million salary outgoing from Boston.   To fit within trade rules, the most salary we can take back from another team (Team X) is 125% of that amount, plus $100k.  That amounts to $2.6 million.

Does that mean we can acquire a player making $2.6 million, then?  No.  The trade has to work from Team X's end, too, and from their end, they have to count BBD's entire $4 million salary.  The absolute least amount they could send out in a trade of a $4 million salary is $3.12 million.  As you see, that's still more than the $2.6 million Boston can take back.

Now, one way around this would be to include a minimum salary player in the team (going from Team X to Boston), because minimum salary players don't have to be counted as incoming salary in a trade.  For instance, let's say we want to trade BBD's $4 million salary for a player making $2.5 million and a minimum salary player, making around $800k.  Can we do that?  Yes.

As noted above, Boston can trade BBD's hypothetical $4 million salary for a player making up to $2.6 million.  In this case, the $2.5 million player fits under this restriction.  Because minimum salary players can be included in a trade at any time without counting against outgoing salary, from Team X's end, it is only sending out $2.5 million in salary (when, in actuality, the real number it is trading is $3.3 million).  On the other hand, remember that Boston has to take back at least $3.12 million in salary.  Does it meet this requirement?  Yes, because Boston can elect to include the actual amount of salaries it is taking back, or in this case, $3.3 million.

[ssspence]

I don't think it works from our end.  It depends upon the contract BBD signs, but it's probably not going to work under base year compensation rules. 

Here's what I wrote on the front page in that regard:

Let's say BBD signs for $4 million in the first year, and we want to trade him to Team X.

For BYC purposes, BBD's salary counts as a $2 million salary outgoing from Boston.   To fit within trade rules, the most salary we can take back from another team (Team X) is 125% of that amount, plus $100k.  That amounts to $2.6 million.

Does that mean we can acquire a player making $2.6 million, then?  No.  The trade has to work from Team X's end, too, and from their end, they have to count BBD's entire $4 million salary.  The absolute least amount they could send out in a trade of a $4 million salary is $3.12 million.  As you see, that's still more than the $2.6 million Boston can take back.

Now, one way around this would be to include a minimum salary player in the team (going from Team X to Boston), because minimum salary players don't have to be counted as incoming salary in a trade.  For instance, let's say we want to trade BBD's $4 million salary for a player making $2.5 million and a minimum salary player, making around $800k.  Can we do that?  Yes.

As noted above, Boston can trade BBD's hypothetical $4 million salary for a player making up to $2.6 million.  In this case, the $2.5 million player fits under this restriction.  Because minimum salary players can be included in a trade at any time without counting against outgoing salary, from Team X's end, it is only sending out $2.5 million in salary (when, in actuality, the real number it is trading is $3.3 million).  On the other hand, remember that Boston has to take back at least $3.12 million in salary.  Does it meet this requirement?  Yes, because Boston can elect to include the actual amount of salaries it is taking back, or in this case, $3.3 million.

Does the pick either we receive or OKC receives count as salary? Does OKC's status as 'under the cap' affect the dynamics of BYC? It looks to me like if Baby's salary goes up a little bit it could work??

[Who]

I don't believe that Pistons rumour. If they were that desperate to remove salary, why not try to get rid of Maxiell's longer deal? Or Kwame Brown who's less of player? Or try to move both Kwame and Amir?

That #15 pick sounds like a huge price to pay for moving Amir Johnson.

I think they could trade Amir to a team below the cap (Memphis?) without including another valuable asset.

[Roy Hobbs]

I don't think it works from our end.  It depends upon the contract BBD signs, but it's probably not going to work under base year compensation rules. 

Here's what I wrote on the front page in that regard:

Let's say BBD signs for $4 million in the first year, and we want to trade him to Team X.

For BYC purposes, BBD's salary counts as a $2 million salary outgoing from Boston.   To fit within trade rules, the most salary we can take back from another team (Team X) is 125% of that amount, plus $100k.  That amounts to $2.6 million.

Does that mean we can acquire a player making $2.6 million, then?  No.  The trade has to work from Team X's end, too, and from their end, they have to count BBD's entire $4 million salary.  The absolute least amount they could send out in a trade of a $4 million salary is $3.12 million.  As you see, that's still more than the $2.6 million Boston can take back.

Now, one way around this would be to include a minimum salary player in the team (going from Team X to Boston), because minimum salary players don't have to be counted as incoming salary in a trade.  For instance, let's say we want to trade BBD's $4 million salary for a player making $2.5 million and a minimum salary player, making around $800k.  Can we do that?  Yes.

As noted above, Boston can trade BBD's hypothetical $4 million salary for a player making up to $2.6 million.  In this case, the $2.5 million player fits under this restriction.  Because minimum salary players can be included in a trade at any time without counting against outgoing salary, from Team X's end, it is only sending out $2.5 million in salary (when, in actuality, the real number it is trading is $3.3 million).  On the other hand, remember that Boston has to take back at least $3.12 million in salary.  Does it meet this requirement?  Yes, because Boston can elect to include the actual amount of salaries it is taking back, or in this case, $3.3 million.

Does the pick either we receive or OKC receives count as salary? Does OKC's status as 'under the cap' affect the dynamics of BYC? It looks to me like if Baby's salary goes up a little bit it could work??

Picks don't count as salary.  You can trade a draft pick 30 days after he signs a contract, counting his actual salary.

Also, another reason the draft doesn't work is because BBD would have to agree to the deal (it's a sign-and-trade) and we / other teams can't negotiate with him until July 1 (and can't sign him until July 9), which is after the draft.

[action781]

Seems crazy for Detroit to seriously downgrade a draft pick in order to release amir johnson.

Why are they trying to create cap space?  For rebuilding?  Then wouldn't they want that 15th pick?

[ssspence]

I don't believe that Pistons rumour. If they were that desperate to remove salary, why not try to get rid of Maxiell's longer deal? Or Kwame Brown who's less of player? Or try to move both Kwame and Amir?

That #15 pick sounds like a huge price to pay for moving Amir Johnson.

I think they could trade Amir to a team below the cap (Memphis?) without including another valuable asset.

Because no one wants to add salary for bad players. So remove Brown. Because they don't want to trade Maxiell -- he's good. So remove Maxiell. From there, maybe they can trade Amir Johnson by himself to OKC or MEM, maybe they cant. Why do they need another young player on the Pistons if they're looking to win now?

Here's the rumor in its latest carnation, but it's also been on ESPN and SI.

http://www.draftexpress.com/blog/Jonathan-Givony/#Analyzing-the-NBA-Combine-Measurements-3237

[ssspence]

I don't think it works from our end.  It depends upon the contract BBD signs, but it's probably not going to work under base year compensation rules. 

Here's what I wrote on the front page in that regard:

Let's say BBD signs for $4 million in the first year, and we want to trade him to Team X.

For BYC purposes, BBD's salary counts as a $2 million salary outgoing from Boston.   To fit within trade rules, the most salary we can take back from another team (Team X) is 125% of that amount, plus $100k.  That amounts to $2.6 million.

Does that mean we can acquire a player making $2.6 million, then?  No.  The trade has to work from Team X's end, too, and from their end, they have to count BBD's entire $4 million salary.  The absolute least amount they could send out in a trade of a $4 million salary is $3.12 million.  As you see, that's still more than the $2.6 million Boston can take back.

Now, one way around this would be to include a minimum salary player in the team (going from Team X to Boston), because minimum salary players don't have to be counted as incoming salary in a trade.  For instance, let's say we want to trade BBD's $4 million salary for a player making $2.5 million and a minimum salary player, making around $800k.  Can we do that?  Yes.

As noted above, Boston can trade BBD's hypothetical $4 million salary for a player making up to $2.6 million.  In this case, the $2.5 million player fits under this restriction.  Because minimum salary players can be included in a trade at any time without counting against outgoing salary, from Team X's end, it is only sending out $2.5 million in salary (when, in actuality, the real number it is trading is $3.3 million).  On the other hand, remember that Boston has to take back at least $3.12 million in salary.  Does it meet this requirement?  Yes, because Boston can elect to include the actual amount of salaries it is taking back, or in this case, $3.3 million.

Does the pick either we receive or OKC receives count as salary? Does OKC's status as 'under the cap' affect the dynamics of BYC? It looks to me like if Baby's salary goes up a little bit it could work??

Picks don't count as salary.  You can trade a draft pick 30 days after he signs a contract, counting his actual salary.

Also, another reason the draft doesn't work is because BBD would have to agree to the deal (it's a sign-and-trade) and we / other teams can't negotiate with him until July 1 (and can't sign him until July 9), which is after the draft.

Good point. That hurts it obviously. I assume OKC would rather have Johnson than any of our bench junk.