Joe Smith back to CLE?

[bruinsandceltics]

This is Bush League today's article says:

Presti and Cavs GM Danny Ferry have a close relationship. They worked together in the Spurs' front office and have already executed two trades in the two years Presti has been the Thunder's GM.

Ferry probably told him to wait until last minute so the Celtics couldn't sign him. That's retarded.

We don't have much to complain about here considering how the Celtics became a contender in the first place - Danny Ainge and Kevin McHale orchestrating a trade.

Celtics also gave up Al Jefferson in return.

Thank you.

[Toine43]

This is Bush League today's article says:

Presti and Cavs GM Danny Ferry have a close relationship. They worked together in the Spurs' front office and have already executed two trades in the two years Presti has been the Thunder's GM.

Ferry probably told him to wait until last minute so the Celtics couldn't sign him. That's retarded.

We don't have much to complain about here considering how the Celtics became a contender in the first place - Danny Ainge and Kevin McHale orchestrating a trade.

Celtics also gave up Al Jefferson in return.

I'm aware of that.

I still don't get why anyone would complain over Presti waiting until the last moment so that the Celics wouldn't get Smith (a journeyman role player), a conspiracy theory that is almost definitely not true, when the Ainge made the trade he did with McHale.

By the way, I am NOT one of those people who thinks the Wolves got a bad deal out of it. It was a fair trade.

[bruinsandceltics]

This is Bush League today's article says:

Presti and Cavs GM Danny Ferry have a close relationship. They worked together in the Spurs' front office and have already executed two trades in the two years Presti has been the Thunder's GM.

Ferry probably told him to wait until last minute so the Celtics couldn't sign him. That's retarded.

We don't have much to complain about here considering how the Celtics became a contender in the first place - Danny Ainge and Kevin McHale orchestrating a trade.

Celtics also gave up Al Jefferson in return.

I'm aware of that.

I still don't get why anyone would complain over Presti waiting until the last moment so that the Celics wouldn't get Smith (a journeyman role player), a conspiracy theory that is almost definitely not true, when the Ainge made the trade he did with McHale.

By the way, I am NOT one of those people who thinks the Wolves got a bad deal out of it. It was a fair trade.

It was a fair trade, thats why there isn't a conspiracy theory. The trade didn't happen because Ainge and McHale are friends it happened cause the Celtics offered enough to make the trade a fair trade.

[Toine43]

This is Bush League today's article says:

Presti and Cavs GM Danny Ferry have a close relationship. They worked together in the Spurs' front office and have already executed two trades in the two years Presti has been the Thunder's GM.

Ferry probably told him to wait until last minute so the Celtics couldn't sign him. That's retarded.

We don't have much to complain about here considering how the Celtics became a contender in the first place - Danny Ainge and Kevin McHale orchestrating a trade.

Celtics also gave up Al Jefferson in return.

I'm aware of that.

I still don't get why anyone would complain over Presti waiting until the last moment so that the Celics wouldn't get Smith (a journeyman role player), a conspiracy theory that is almost definitely not true, when the Ainge made the trade he did with McHale.

By the way, I am NOT one of those people who thinks the Wolves got a bad deal out of it. It was a fair trade.

It was a fair trade, thats why there isn't a conspiracy theory. The trade didn't happen because Ainge and McHale are friends it happened cause the Celtics offered enough to make the trade a fair trade.

I was calling the Cavs/Thunder thing a conspiracy theory, not Ainge and McHale's trade.

[LarBrd33]

is Joe Smith really that good?  We're talking about Joe Smith...

[winsomme]

Joe Smith could be just days away from providing the Cavaliers with a needed talent injection.

Multiple league sources said on Saturday that Smith and the Oklahoma City Thunder are making progress in buyout talks and there is a favorable chance the sides will come to an agreement by Sunday's midnight waiver deadline. It has also become clear that the Cavs would be Smith's top choice if all the terms can be agreed on.

If all the hurdles can be cleared, Smith would be put on waivers on Monday and become an outright free agent by Wednesday morning.

...

As for Smith, he and the Thunder have been exchanging some figures for the last several days. Insiders have indicated Thunder General Manager Sam Presti has been showing some reluctance and has driving a hard bargain.

Smith is still owed about $1.3 million of his $4.8 million salary this season by Oklahoma City. However, there are some indications the Thunder are looking for Smith to give up that amount and perhaps more, which may be what has been stalling the talks.

http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2009/02/help_on_the_way_as_thunders_sm.html

this is why i think that Danny went with Moore so quickly. not that Smith was a lock to go to CLE.

He probably knew that Presti was playing hardball and not what the team was reporting that they "loved" having him around for the young players.....

but in the end, OKC was bound to buckle because any money saved is money in their pocket because they are not playing Smith. he serves no purpose on their roster...

[Bankshot]

This is Bush League today's article says:

Presti and Cavs GM Danny Ferry have a close relationship. They worked together in the Spurs' front office and have already executed two trades in the two years Presti has been the Thunder's GM.

Ferry probably told him to wait until last minute so the Celtics couldn't sign him. That's retarded.

That's what I keep saying!  It was orchestrated.  Smith was not going to pick Boston over Cleveland once bought out.

[cordobes]

is Joe Smith really that good?  We're talking about Joe Smith...

It's not only about Joe Smith's value in abstract... He's a good player, he'd easily be our best backup big and he's a good addition for any team, but his value is much increased for a team like Cleveland, post Ben Wallace's injury.

See it this way: Big Z struggles to play more than 25 mpg at a high level and he's basically deadweight if he's to play more than 30 minutes (and there's a good chance he becomes literally dead if he has to play more than 35). Anderson Varejão is a limited offensive player and, while good, not at Wallace's level defensively. KG will give him fits and if Varejão wants to keep his aggresivness he'll collect fouls at a faster rate he'd want to. I think that Z and AV can give Cleveland 65 quality minutes at most during a playoffs series. They still have 31 minutes to cover. LeBron at the 4 is a solution, but that would weaken their wings pretty much, especially considering that Pavlovic is also injured and history says he'll need a training camp to get back in game shape. So, you'd probably see a rotation of JJ Hickson - 20 minutes; LeBron - 10 minutes; Lorenzo Wright - 5 minutes. Hickson is a gifted player, but he's extremely raw, way more than Glenn Davis last season - he struggles defensively and he fails to box out, for example. It's questionable if Wright should still be playing basketball. Our bigs would destroy those guys, they would have a single player able to cover Garnett and even Powe. AV in early foul trouble would be a nightmare for Cleveland. James at the PF would imply a field day for our wings. We also have our weaknesses (for example, the lack of a legit backup wing), but not such a big one, I think. They'd be very vulnerable for a team like the C's and I think their chances of beating the Lakers would be merely theoreticall.

With Smith, you now have Joe Smith playing those 20, 25 minutes and JJ Hickson those 5 minutes when needed. An incredibly better situation - a big men rotation of Ilgauskas, Varejão, Smith and Hickson (plus LeBron) is pretty good. Big, big difference in my opinion.

[cordobes]

  I think they had at least twice the money we had before we signed Marbury. We couldn't even make a competitive offer if money was an issue and Cleveland wanted him.

but if we were actually holding out for Smith, then maybe we could have held more money for him.

  How? By not signing Tony or Eddie or Walker (whoever of those three used the mid-level)?

maybe giving less to Mar...but again, how do we know how much CLE is actually willing to give him?

   We don't know what Cleveland was offering. We don't know what Boston would have offered. We just know that Cleveland had about twice as much money available before we signed Marbury.

and like i said earlier, I think that Smith was enough better than Moore to roll the dice...considering we also are defending champs and have Doc, KG, Paul and Ray that could have been part of the romancing...

and CLE is also already spending almost 22 million more in salary THIS season...

Is he so much better than it'd be worth risking not signing an additional big man for the playoffs? I have my doubts. Besides back channels in the NBA among GMs and agents are pretty strong. If the Celtics truly were going to get Joe Smith we'd have waited for the buyout to get done. He is going to Cleveland and he was always heading there.

There was a thread with a poll on this and, as I recall, half of the voters said we should wait even with the risk of losing Moore. I think the difference is bigger than the difference between Moore and, say, Austin Croshere.

[Roy Hobbs]

  I think they had at least twice the money we had before we signed Marbury. We couldn't even make a competitive offer if money was an issue and Cleveland wanted him.

but if we were actually holding out for Smith, then maybe we could have held more money for him.

  How? By not signing Tony or Eddie or Walker (whoever of those three used the mid-level)?

maybe giving less to Mar...but again, how do we know how much CLE is actually willing to give him?

   We don't know what Cleveland was offering. We don't know what Boston would have offered. We just know that Cleveland had about twice as much money available before we signed Marbury.

and like i said earlier, I think that Smith was enough better than Moore to roll the dice...considering we also are defending champs and have Doc, KG, Paul and Ray that could have been part of the romancing...

and CLE is also already spending almost 22 million more in salary THIS season...

Is he so much better than it'd be worth risking not signing an additional big man for the playoffs? I have my doubts. Besides back channels in the NBA among GMs and agents are pretty strong. If the Celtics truly were going to get Joe Smith we'd have waited for the buyout to get done. He is going to Cleveland and he was always heading there.

There was a thread with a poll on this and, as I recall, half of the voters said we should wait even with the risk of losing Moore. I think the difference is bigger than the difference between Moore and, say, Austin Croshere.

I agree.  I think Danny should have waited, because Smith is a difference maker, and Moore isn't.  Moore is better than POB, but I don't think he's any better than BBD or Powe.

[bruinsandceltics]

If Smith was bought out would it be possible to waive someone on the current team, like Pruitt or Giddens and for us to sign him?

[BballTim]

There was a thread with a poll on this and, as I recall, half of the voters said we should wait even with the risk of losing Moore. I think the difference is bigger than the difference between Moore and, say, Austin Croshere.

I agree.  I think Danny should have waited, because Smith is a difference maker, and Moore isn't.  Moore is better than POB, but I don't think he's any better than BBD or Powe.

  Maybe it's just definitions, but I don't think I'd label Smith a difference maker.