S. Livingston no qualifying offer now a Unrestricted FA

[BudweiserCeltic]

I said it before I'll say it again.

Roger Mason. Big, good handle, good defense, cheap and can score.

Livingston and his agent have been told all about this kids potential for years for them to accept a secondary role at a vet minimum at this stage of his career. They will be looking for a short term starting role with a bad team to rebuild his rep or a long term big money contract from an idiot GM.

Either way that doesn't look good for the Celtics and Livingston hooking up.

I've seen you mention Roger Mason quite a few times... for some reason I don't like him. But since this is just a feeling, no need to argue it since I know I'm basing it off nothing concrete.

Going off what I saw from him in the playoffs, I didn't like how he ran the team. Didn't like his shot selection either. But for what we'll be able to get as far as a back-up PG goes, he could be a nice pick-up. I don't think we'll be able to afford him not matter how cheap he comes if we go after Posey... I can see him getting some 3 mill offers.

One thing I like about him it's his size, so just for that and his defense as you say I might look away from what I don't like about him. And he's capable of getting hot a times, so that's a good thing too.

I might just give you the benefit of the doubt with him. In all, I'm open to being convinced that he is our answer.

[nickagneta]

I said it before I'll say it again.

Roger Mason. Big, good handle, good defense, cheap and can score.

Livingston and his agent have been told all about this kids potential for years for them to accept a secondary role at a vet minimum at this stage of his career. They will be looking for a short term starting role with a bad team to rebuild his rep or a long term big money contract from an idiot GM.

Either way that doesn't look good for the Celtics and Livingston hooking up.

I've seen you mention Roger Mason quite a few times... for some reason I don't like him. But since this is just a feeling, no need to argue it since I know I'm basing it off nothing concrete.

Going off what I saw from him in the playoffs, I didn't like how he ran the team. Didn't like his shot selection either. But for what we'll be able to get as far as a back-up PG goes, he could be a nice pick-up. I don't think we'll be able to afford him not matter how cheap he comes if we go after Posey... I can see him getting some 3 mill offers.

One thing I like about him it's his size, so just for that and his defense as you say I might look away from what I don't like about him. And he's capable of getting hot a times, so that's a good thing too.

I might just give you the benefit of the doubt with him. In all, I'm open to being convinced that he is our answer.

You're 100% right about his playoff performance. Very discouraging and I'm hoping it lowered his value a bit as lack of competition could be the key to signing him.

But I have a funny feeling that the Wiz front office liked the way Daniels and he ran the team when Arenas was gone and that they may let Arenas go and give money to Mason to hold onto him and Daniels as their PG solution.

If Arenas doesn't resign he may find the market not to his liking. Of course if he does resign, that means Mason will have no shot of returning to the Wiz.

Time will tell. A House re-signing here could make the entire point moot with Pruitt and Giddens on the roster and Rondo's minutes probably reaching 38 MPG.

[Andy Jick]

i'd like tinsley here if we cannot re-sign house and cassell.  i'm not comfortable with pruitt as the only option at backup pg.  losing both house and cassell would be a bigger blow to this team than we'd probably like to admit.  but tinsley also is a risk - injuries & questionable character.  don't know if we have the kind of cash he's looking for either.

i want no part of livingston...i agree with brickowski - i think his career is probably over.

[BudweiserCeltic]

I said it before I'll say it again.

Roger Mason. Big, good handle, good defense, cheap and can score.

Livingston and his agent have been told all about this kids potential for years for them to accept a secondary role at a vet minimum at this stage of his career. They will be looking for a short term starting role with a bad team to rebuild his rep or a long term big money contract from an idiot GM.

Either way that doesn't look good for the Celtics and Livingston hooking up.

I've seen you mention Roger Mason quite a few times... for some reason I don't like him. But since this is just a feeling, no need to argue it since I know I'm basing it off nothing concrete.

Going off what I saw from him in the playoffs, I didn't like how he ran the team. Didn't like his shot selection either. But for what we'll be able to get as far as a back-up PG goes, he could be a nice pick-up. I don't think we'll be able to afford him not matter how cheap he comes if we go after Posey... I can see him getting some 3 mill offers.

One thing I like about him it's his size, so just for that and his defense as you say I might look away from what I don't like about him. And he's capable of getting hot a times, so that's a good thing too.

I might just give you the benefit of the doubt with him. In all, I'm open to being convinced that he is our answer.

You're 100% right about his playoff performance. Very discouraging and I'm hoping it lowered his value a bit as lack of competition could be the key to signing him.

But I have a funny feeling that the Wiz front office liked the way Daniels and he ran the team when Arenas was gone and that they may let Arenas go and give money to Mason to hold onto him and Daniels as their PG solution.

If Arenas doesn't resign he may find the market not to his liking. Of course if he does resign, that means Mason will have no shot of returning to the Wiz.

Time will tell. A House re-signing here could make the entire point moot with Pruitt and Giddens on the roster and Rondo's minutes probably reaching 38 MPG.

I know you don't like Tony Allen from what I've seen, but this is precisely why I want him to stay... I like him as a utility man, he can play all sorts of positions when the team needs it. He's great insurance for injuries, and I'm quite confident that he'll play better this season than the last one.

By no stretch of the imagination am I claiming that I want Tony Allen to be our back-up PG... but he's a good player to have in the safety net role. He adds depth. We all know depth is overrated, until that unique situation arises that when we do need it. That's why Tony is needed in this team.

I've mentioned a couple of scenarios of a combination of Tony-Giddens-Posey in the floor at the same time to see how it goes, but no one has taken a shot at a serious discussion of it. Might just make a thread on it later because just for simple curiousity I want to see them together off the bench some time.

As for Livingston, if he can get healthy and is looking for some sort of one year deal with a team to get some playing time etc., then I don't see how the Celtics can't be it. He'll be our primary back-up and he'd surely get a ton of minutes, especially if Rondo is having an off game... which last season he had those from time to time; he's still maturing as a player.

But, I don't see him being healthy enough to help us this year, or healthy enough to compete period. Who knows, we can just let the medical experts make those decisions for us. We can only speculate.

I really wouldn't want our team entering the season with just one back-up (House or whomever) and just Pruitt. If we can get yet another guard to help, fine, otherwise I want Tony still in here.

[nickagneta]

To me Shaun Livingston = Penny Hardaway.

I have always liked Tinsley's game. Unfortunately he has a million dollar game and a ten cent brain. He's a tease in the same mold as Ron Artest is as a Posey replacement. I think this team could absorb a "bad rep" personality and make it succeed, especially if it is an exceptional talent.

Tinsley may not be exceptional but if he got Eddie's 20-24 MPG, I think he could defeinitely outproduce anything Eddie gave us on the court.

But Eddie gave so much to this team off the court and in the locker room. Tinsley had better, at the very least, not subtract from the team dynamic while at the same time producing. If he could do that, he's a really nice solution to a House signing elsewhere.

[nickagneta]

I said it before I'll say it again.

Roger Mason. Big, good handle, good defense, cheap and can score.

Livingston and his agent have been told all about this kids potential for years for them to accept a secondary role at a vet minimum at this stage of his career. They will be looking for a short term starting role with a bad team to rebuild his rep or a long term big money contract from an idiot GM.

Either way that doesn't look good for the Celtics and Livingston hooking up.

I've seen you mention Roger Mason quite a few times... for some reason I don't like him. But since this is just a feeling, no need to argue it since I know I'm basing it off nothing concrete.

Going off what I saw from him in the playoffs, I didn't like how he ran the team. Didn't like his shot selection either. But for what we'll be able to get as far as a back-up PG goes, he could be a nice pick-up. I don't think we'll be able to afford him not matter how cheap he comes if we go after Posey... I can see him getting some 3 mill offers.

One thing I like about him it's his size, so just for that and his defense as you say I might look away from what I don't like about him. And he's capable of getting hot a times, so that's a good thing too.

I might just give you the benefit of the doubt with him. In all, I'm open to being convinced that he is our answer.

You're 100% right about his playoff performance. Very discouraging and I'm hoping it lowered his value a bit as lack of competition could be the key to signing him.

But I have a funny feeling that the Wiz front office liked the way Daniels and he ran the team when Arenas was gone and that they may let Arenas go and give money to Mason to hold onto him and Daniels as their PG solution.

If Arenas doesn't resign he may find the market not to his liking. Of course if he does resign, that means Mason will have no shot of returning to the Wiz.

Time will tell. A House re-signing here could make the entire point moot with Pruitt and Giddens on the roster and Rondo's minutes probably reaching 38 MPG.

I know you don't like Tony Allen from what I've seen, but this is precisely why I want him to stay... I like him as a utility man, he can play all sorts of positions when the team needs it. He's great insurance for injuries, and I'm quite confident that he'll play better this season than the last one.

By no stretch of the imagination am I claiming that I want Tony Allen to be our back-up PG... but he's a good player to have in the safety net role. He adds depth. We all know depth is overrated, until that unique situation arises that when we do need it. That's why Tony is needed in this team.

I've mentioned a couple of scenarios of a combination of Tony-Giddens-Posey in the floor at the same time to see how it goes, but no one has taken a shot at a serious discussion of it. Might just make a thread on it later because just for simple curiousity I want to see them together off the bench some time.

As for Livingston, if he can get healthy and is looking for some sort of one year deal with a team to get some playing time etc., then I don't see how the Celtics can't be it. He'll be our primary back-up and he'd surely get a ton of minutes, especially if Rondo is having an off game... which last season he had those from time to time; he's still maturing as a player.

But, I don't see him being healthy enough to help us this year, or healthy enough to compete period. Who knows, we can just let the medical experts make those decisions for us. We can only speculate.

I really wouldn't want our team entering the season with just one back-up (House or whomever) and just Pruitt. If we can get yet another guard to help, fine, otherwise I want Tony still in here.

I think people misunderstand my stance on Tony.

I think Tony Allen was an investment. He got here raw and could have developed into some special. But I think he has reached his peak. He isn't going to be the guy we wanted him to turn into.

I think for the skill level that he brings to the table that he is extremely easy to replace and can be replaced by another "investment" for less money that over time will pay off much more handsomely than Tony ever could. I find his defense to be overrated by many here and other than that and his ability to finish on the break, he isn't above average in anything he does.

Giddens is the next Tony Allen and now that the C's have not given a qualifying offer to Allen to be able to match another team's offer, it's pretty obvious tome that the C's may see things the same way I do.

[SoulHonky]

Livingston is done. He can't workout on back-to-back days and he needs 90 minutes of rehab before even non-contact drills.

[nickagneta]

Does anyone know of a site with a list of all the free agents and updates as to qualifying offers, who has opted out and who has decided to not opt out, updates as to signings and the like when they occur and everything and anything else free agent related.

I constantly scan ESPN but some info always falls throught the cracks there this time of year and inevitably I start talking about a FA possibility that is impossible because of something that happened that I missed on ESPN.

Just thought someone would have a good site that they use this time of year that has kind of a real time update for all things FA.

[BudweiserCeltic]

I said it before I'll say it again.

Roger Mason. Big, good handle, good defense, cheap and can score.

Livingston and his agent have been told all about this kids potential for years for them to accept a secondary role at a vet minimum at this stage of his career. They will be looking for a short term starting role with a bad team to rebuild his rep or a long term big money contract from an idiot GM.

Either way that doesn't look good for the Celtics and Livingston hooking up.

I've seen you mention Roger Mason quite a few times... for some reason I don't like him. But since this is just a feeling, no need to argue it since I know I'm basing it off nothing concrete.

Going off what I saw from him in the playoffs, I didn't like how he ran the team. Didn't like his shot selection either. But for what we'll be able to get as far as a back-up PG goes, he could be a nice pick-up. I don't think we'll be able to afford him not matter how cheap he comes if we go after Posey... I can see him getting some 3 mill offers.

One thing I like about him it's his size, so just for that and his defense as you say I might look away from what I don't like about him. And he's capable of getting hot a times, so that's a good thing too.

I might just give you the benefit of the doubt with him. In all, I'm open to being convinced that he is our answer.

You're 100% right about his playoff performance. Very discouraging and I'm hoping it lowered his value a bit as lack of competition could be the key to signing him.

But I have a funny feeling that the Wiz front office liked the way Daniels and he ran the team when Arenas was gone and that they may let Arenas go and give money to Mason to hold onto him and Daniels as their PG solution.

If Arenas doesn't resign he may find the market not to his liking. Of course if he does resign, that means Mason will have no shot of returning to the Wiz.

Time will tell. A House re-signing here could make the entire point moot with Pruitt and Giddens on the roster and Rondo's minutes probably reaching 38 MPG.

I know you don't like Tony Allen from what I've seen, but this is precisely why I want him to stay... I like him as a utility man, he can play all sorts of positions when the team needs it. He's great insurance for injuries, and I'm quite confident that he'll play better this season than the last one.

By no stretch of the imagination am I claiming that I want Tony Allen to be our back-up PG... but he's a good player to have in the safety net role. He adds depth. We all know depth is overrated, until that unique situation arises that when we do need it. That's why Tony is needed in this team.

I've mentioned a couple of scenarios of a combination of Tony-Giddens-Posey in the floor at the same time to see how it goes, but no one has taken a shot at a serious discussion of it. Might just make a thread on it later because just for simple curiousity I want to see them together off the bench some time.

As for Livingston, if he can get healthy and is looking for some sort of one year deal with a team to get some playing time etc., then I don't see how the Celtics can't be it. He'll be our primary back-up and he'd surely get a ton of minutes, especially if Rondo is having an off game... which last season he had those from time to time; he's still maturing as a player.

But, I don't see him being healthy enough to help us this year, or healthy enough to compete period. Who knows, we can just let the medical experts make those decisions for us. We can only speculate.

I really wouldn't want our team entering the season with just one back-up (House or whomever) and just Pruitt. If we can get yet another guard to help, fine, otherwise I want Tony still in here.

I think people misunderstand my stance on Tony.

I think Tony Allen was an investment. He got here raw and could have developed into some special. But I think he has reached his peak. He isn't going to be the guy we wanted him to turn into.

I think for the skill level that he brings to the table that he is extremely easy to replace and can be replaced by another "investment" for less money that over time will pay off much more handsomely than Tony ever could. I find his defense to be overrated by many here and other than that and his ability to finish on the break, he isn't above average in anything he does.

Giddens is the next Tony Allen and now that the C's have not given a qualifying offer to Allen to be able to match another team's offer, it's pretty obvious tome that the C's may see things the same way I do.

Here's why I think Tony Allen should stay (unless the owners go cheap on us, which I doubt):

1) Capable of playing the PG in case of injury and in unique circumstances.
2) Adds depth.
3) He allows us to make trades without losing players needed in our team.
4) Even if overrated defensively, he's still a good defensive player. Better than most in the NBA, which is a darn good thing to have.
5) He and Giddens combined will allow our team to have an uptempo small ball unit.
6) He's an athletic player, wasn't much of it last year, but he should be better this year in this regard.
7) Useful in defending bigger guards and some small forwards
Will help to keep Ray's and Pierce's minutes down through the season.

There are many others. I just don't see a good reason for not keeping him other than to save Wyc a couple of bucks. If, and only if, our roster situation becomes so tight that keeping Tony will prevent us from acquiring someone of need, then there's some validity to not having him around. But, thinking that he allows us to make trades, I see this as a non-issue.

I have no illusions of Tony becoming some great player or anything like that. But I do believe he can play much better than he did last year, and I do believe he can be of use. Seeing as how our ability to acquire players of use might be limited to us, why not just keep a guy that we can have?

I simply don't see as Giddens being Tony's replacement. Tony's replacement has to come in addition to Giddens, and until he comes, Tony should be in this team in my opinion. He might come via another guard (a big one like your Roger Mason) or another SF... but someone has to be added in addition to Posey and House in my opinion to make Tony seemingly useless in this team. Even so, because we can trade him he can still be of use in that regard.

Didn't really mean to get sidetracked in this thread since it's about Livingston... but I think the consensus is that he's not a good option.

Maybe this site? Though you probably use it:
http://hoopshype.com/free_agency.htm

[Roy Hobbs]

Does anyone know of a site with a list of all the free agents and updates as to qualifying offers, who has opted out and who has decided to not opt out, updates as to signings and the like when they occur and everything and anything else free agent related.

I constantly scan ESPN but some info always falls throught the cracks there this time of year and inevitably I start talking about a FA possibility that is impossible because of something that happened that I missed on ESPN.

Just thought someone would have a good site that they use this time of year that has kind of a real time update for all things FA.

It's not what you're looking for, but a lot of updates are provided at http://www.nba.com/fantasy/fantasy_playernews.jsp.  It's not collated into one place, but all the news is there in terms of QOs, etc.

[nickagneta]

Thanks BC. Thanks Roy. TP for both of you. I'm going to load them into my favs for the next 4 months. Both sites look like they'll save me a ton of time over the way I've been doing it.

[BudweiserCeltic]

Thanks BC. Thanks Roy. TP for both of you. I'm going to load them into my favs for the next 4 months. Both sites look like they'll save me a ton of time over the way I've been doing it.

Never knew of that feature Roy posted in NBA.com... looks very good.

Insidehoops is also useful:
http://insidehoops.com/nba_rumors.shtml
http://insidehoops.com/free-agents.shtml

Hasn't been updated lately, but I assume it's because free-agency hasn't started officially.

[Who]

I said it before I'll say it again.

Roger Mason. Big, good handle, good defense, cheap and can score.

I'm a big Roger Mason guy. I've been following him since the Bulls drafted him in the second round that year they took Jay Will. He's a talented player and one of the more versatile backup guards around who gives your ball club a lot of flexibility with their lineups. Good rebounder, solid defender, has developed a jump shot, solid passer and solid handle.

He had a problem in Washington running the point guard. Eddie Jordan never played him alongside a two guard without point skills (Nick Young). Mason doesn't have enough point guard skills to survive without somebody else on the court who can run the show. He just doesn't know how to run a team. He's a small two guard who can function as a point with the right personnel around him - kinda like Sasha Vujacic. So he'd be grand with Ray or Paul in the second unit but not without.

I'd prefer Eddie House but Mason is a good backup option if that plan falls through.

Overall I'm disappointed in Mason. He still hasn't made the most of his talents. Probably never will. We'll see.