Stackhouse on Nesmith

[footey]

Pump the brakes. All Star potential?  He can't guard guys.  His lateral movement is scary bad.   He's a potentially elite streak shooter, but I don't see his ceiling higher than Terrence Ross.  He has poor core strength.

I have higher hopes for Begarin, who has a much stronger body and can defend multiple positions. 

Ime and Brad are going to go for defensive oriented teams.  It all starts with defense.  Look at the transactions.  Sign Smart to multi year deal, let Fournier walk.  Trade for Richardson. Trade for Dunn. 

All of the depth chart projections on CS show Nesmith as starting or first wing off bench, and Romeo relegated to 3rd string or DNPCD, I suspect when the team plays games in the fall, we will see Romeo getting more PT than Nesmith, ahead of him in the rotation.  He's a much better defender. He STARTED for Brad during the playoff series vs Brooklyn, and played quite well under the circumstances (we were outmatched by superior opponent, and were without Brown, etc.) Unpopular take, I know. I recognize flaws in Romeo, and have been disappointed in his failure to assert himself more during summer league.  His shots per game was probably less than 10.  But that profile (low usage, elite multi-positional defender) will be in high demand next to Tatum and Brown.  And his 3 point shot is starting to look acceptably close to league average of late.

There's pumping the breaks, and then there's crashing the car. Ross doesn't play like Nesmith that similarly at all.

There's nothing particularly streaky about Nesmith's shooting. It trended upward every month (besides the playoffs, but he was not alone). His monthly 3 point percentages went: 29 -> 31 -> 42 -> 27 -> 41 -> 44.

Langford has no business getting minutes ahead of Nesmith because we have to play 4v5 on the offensive end whenever he's out there.

I'll wait for Ime to decide who gets minutes. Trust his judgment more than yours.  Or mine.  My gut instinct tells  me we will see Romeo play as much or more than Nesmith.  Because he is superior defensively.

Langford can be as superior on defence as he wants (a disparity which you are exaggerating, Nesmith is a much better defender than you're presenting), he is arguably the worst offensive player in the league from what he's shown thus far.

You saying "he can't guard guys" is just dishonest.

Did you watch the Kings game? His defense was abysmal. Stating Romeo is the worst offensive player in the league is dishonest.

Blah blah. We disagree. Let’s see what the coaches decide. My bet is on Romeo getting more minutes than Aaron. You feel the opposite. They’ll probably both get traded in Beal package and we can argue about something else then.

[nickagneta]

His lateral movement is scary bad.   He has poor core strength.

I think that you'll change your mind about both these things.

He got on the floor last year because of his defense.

His core strength being bad is humorous. Kid grew up on a farm moving 50-100 lb bags and cutting and chopping wood for 12 hours a day. His core strength is most likely off the charts good.

[gouki88]

Pump the brakes. All Star potential?  He can't guard guys.  His lateral movement is scary bad.   He's a potentially elite streak shooter, but I don't see his ceiling higher than Terrence Ross.  He has poor core strength.

I have higher hopes for Begarin, who has a much stronger body and can defend multiple positions. 

Ime and Brad are going to go for defensive oriented teams.  It all starts with defense.  Look at the transactions.  Sign Smart to multi year deal, let Fournier walk.  Trade for Richardson. Trade for Dunn. 

All of the depth chart projections on CS show Nesmith as starting or first wing off bench, and Romeo relegated to 3rd string or DNPCD, I suspect when the team plays games in the fall, we will see Romeo getting more PT than Nesmith, ahead of him in the rotation.  He's a much better defender. He STARTED for Brad during the playoff series vs Brooklyn, and played quite well under the circumstances (we were outmatched by superior opponent, and were without Brown, etc.) Unpopular take, I know. I recognize flaws in Romeo, and have been disappointed in his failure to assert himself more during summer league.  His shots per game was probably less than 10.  But that profile (low usage, elite multi-positional defender) will be in high demand next to Tatum and Brown.  And his 3 point shot is starting to look acceptably close to league average of late.

There's pumping the breaks, and then there's crashing the car. Ross doesn't play like Nesmith that similarly at all.

There's nothing particularly streaky about Nesmith's shooting. It trended upward every month (besides the playoffs, but he was not alone). His monthly 3 point percentages went: 29 -> 31 -> 42 -> 27 -> 41 -> 44.

Langford has no business getting minutes ahead of Nesmith because we have to play 4v5 on the offensive end whenever he's out there.

I'll wait for Ime to decide who gets minutes. Trust his judgment more than yours.  Or mine.  My gut instinct tells  me we will see Romeo play as much or more than Nesmith.  Because he is superior defensively.

Langford can be as superior on defence as he wants (a disparity which you are exaggerating, Nesmith is a much better defender than you're presenting), he is arguably the worst offensive player in the league from what he's shown thus far.

You saying "he can't guard guys" is just dishonest.

Did you watch the Kings game? His defense was abysmal. Stating Romeo is the worst offensive player in the league is dishonest.

Blah blah. We disagree. Let’s see what the coaches decide. My bet is on Romeo getting more minutes than Aaron. You feel the opposite. They’ll probably both get traded in Beal package and we can argue about something else then.

You're not seriously drawing conclusions from one Summer League game, are you? I didn't state that - I stated that it's arguable, which it absolutely is. Romeo Langford is Isaac Bonga-level bad on offence.

[Big333223]

I said before that if he can turn into a more-athletic JJ Redick, that's a win. After his rookie season, his ceiling looks like something like more athletic JJ Redick who can play defense. Which is a fantastic player to have, especially when you already have the J's.

[Roy H.]

Pump the brakes. All Star potential?  He can't guard guys.  His lateral movement is scary bad.   He's a potentially elite streak shooter, but I don't see his ceiling higher than Terrence Ross.  He has poor core strength.

I have higher hopes for Begarin, who has a much stronger body and can defend multiple positions. 

Ime and Brad are going to go for defensive oriented teams.  It all starts with defense.  Look at the transactions.  Sign Smart to multi year deal, let Fournier walk.  Trade for Richardson. Trade for Dunn. 

All of the depth chart projections on CS show Nesmith as starting or first wing off bench, and Romeo relegated to 3rd string or DNPCD, I suspect when the team plays games in the fall, we will see Romeo getting more PT than Nesmith, ahead of him in the rotation.  He's a much better defender. He STARTED for Brad during the playoff series vs Brooklyn, and played quite well under the circumstances (we were outmatched by superior opponent, and were without Brown, etc.) Unpopular take, I know. I recognize flaws in Romeo, and have been disappointed in his failure to assert himself more during summer league.  His shots per game was probably less than 10.  But that profile (low usage, elite multi-positional defender) will be in high demand next to Tatum and Brown.  And his 3 point shot is starting to look acceptably close to league average of late.

There's pumping the breaks, and then there's crashing the car. Ross doesn't play like Nesmith that similarly at all.

There's nothing particularly streaky about Nesmith's shooting. It trended upward every month (besides the playoffs, but he was not alone). His monthly 3 point percentages went: 29 -> 31 -> 42 -> 27 -> 41 -> 44.

Langford has no business getting minutes ahead of Nesmith because we have to play 4v5 on the offensive end whenever he's out there.

I'll wait for Ime to decide who gets minutes. Trust his judgment more than yours.  Or mine.  My gut instinct tells  me we will see Romeo play as much or more than Nesmith.  Because he is superior defensively.

Romeo didn't just get minutes because of his defense, which I would agree is good and improving.

Romeo is generally not being given enough credit for what he contributes on offense. Offense is not just shooting %s. This is basketball, not HORSE.

Offense is about more than shooting, but Romeo hasn't showed much of anything positive on that side.  He's been an extremely poor shooter, he's scored at a very poor rate, he's gotten assists at a very poor rate, and he's gotten to the line at a very poor rate.

What do you think he contributes on offense that he should get credit for? 

I think that Goukii is right:  you can make a strong argument that he's the worst offensive guard in the NBA during his career to date.

Per-36 averages for his career:  7.4 points, 1.4 assists, 1.2 turnovers, 35.3% FG%,.388 eFG%, 2.0 FTAs

His PER is 5.2, which is anemic.  His ORtg was 95, which means the team performs very poorly on offense when he's on the floor (and he had a very poor 116 DRtg last season, too, meaning the heralded defense didn't have much positive impact).

All of this could of course change, but in his NBA career to date, he deserves zero credit for anything positive offensively.  He needs to make extremely significant strides to be considered even a below-average offensive player.

[Muzzy66]

We currently have a perimeter rotation that includes Schroeder, Dunn, Pritchard, Brown, Smart, Richardson and Nesmith.

If Romeo Langford gets regular minutes on this Roster then god forbid, because Covid must have taken 13 other players off the roster.  Langford is bad.  Really bad. He is so bad on the offensive end that he makes Marcus Smart look like James Harden. 

Avery Bradley was infamously bad as a passer, shooter and general scorer in his first couple of years and yet he was better then Romeo in all three areas...by a signifciant margin.  And he was MUCH better then Langford defenisvely IMHO.  And less injury prone, which says a lot.  One thing that could always be said about Avery is he played harder then every other person on the court every time he was on the court, and did so on both ends. Nobody could ever question his effort.  Langford from what I've seen spends at least half his time on the court standing around doing absoluely nothing like he's stuck in an interdimensional portal and doesnt know which way to go. 

Guy hasn't even been able to produce at a high level against G league or summer league talent.  Eek.  That's a level at which guys like James Young, Taco Fall and Jordan Mickey dominated.

[Celtics4ever]

I actually thought Romeo showed some real athletic ability in summer league, prior to the injury in summer league.   Something we had not seen until now.  I still think he is very passive and have to question his toughness.

I am not a big fan of 2019 draft for many reasons.

[Hoopvortex]

Pump the brakes. All Star potential?  He can't guard guys.  His lateral movement is scary bad.   He's a potentially elite streak shooter, but I don't see his ceiling higher than Terrence Ross.  He has poor core strength.

I have higher hopes for Begarin, who has a much stronger body and can defend multiple positions. 

Ime and Brad are going to go for defensive oriented teams.  It all starts with defense.  Look at the transactions.  Sign Smart to multi year deal, let Fournier walk.  Trade for Richardson. Trade for Dunn. 

All of the depth chart projections on CS show Nesmith as starting or first wing off bench, and Romeo relegated to 3rd string or DNPCD, I suspect when the team plays games in the fall, we will see Romeo getting more PT than Nesmith, ahead of him in the rotation.  He's a much better defender. He STARTED for Brad during the playoff series vs Brooklyn, and played quite well under the circumstances (we were outmatched by superior opponent, and were without Brown, etc.) Unpopular take, I know. I recognize flaws in Romeo, and have been disappointed in his failure to assert himself more during summer league.  His shots per game was probably less than 10.  But that profile (low usage, elite multi-positional defender) will be in high demand next to Tatum and Brown.  And his 3 point shot is starting to look acceptably close to league average of late.

There's pumping the breaks, and then there's crashing the car. Ross doesn't play like Nesmith that similarly at all.

There's nothing particularly streaky about Nesmith's shooting. It trended upward every month (besides the playoffs, but he was not alone). His monthly 3 point percentages went: 29 -> 31 -> 42 -> 27 -> 41 -> 44.

Langford has no business getting minutes ahead of Nesmith because we have to play 4v5 on the offensive end whenever he's out there.

I'll wait for Ime to decide who gets minutes. Trust his judgment more than yours.  Or mine.  My gut instinct tells  me we will see Romeo play as much or more than Nesmith.  Because he is superior defensively.

Romeo didn't just get minutes because of his defense, which I would agree is good and improving.

Romeo is generally not being given enough credit for what he contributes on offense. Offense is not just shooting %s. This is basketball, not HORSE.

Offense is about more than shooting, but Romeo hasn't showed much of anything positive on that side.  He's been an extremely poor shooter, he's scored at a very poor rate, he's gotten assists at a very poor rate, and he's gotten to the line at a very poor rate.

What do you think he contributes on offense that he should get credit for? 

I think that Goukii is right:  you can make a strong argument that he's the worst offensive guard in the NBA during his career to date.

Per-36 averages for his career:  7.4 points, 1.4 assists, 1.2 turnovers, 35.3% FG%,.388 eFG%, 2.0 FTAs

His PER is 5.2, which is anemic.  His ORtg was 95, which means the team performs very poorly on offense when he's on the floor (and he had a very poor 116 DRtg last season, too, meaning the heralded defense didn't have much positive impact).

All of this could of course change, but in his NBA career to date, he deserves zero credit for anything positive offensively.  He needs to make extremely significant strides to be considered even a below-average offensive player.

No great need to respond in detail. Most of basketball is movement, and most of successful team basketball is going to the right place and doing the right thing there. At the NBA level offense is getting good shots for the two or three guys you want scoring; all the rotation players are executing to do that. Romeo got the surprising playoff minutes against Brooklyn (high rotation) because he can be counted on to do those things - to execute correctly. He shot better than Nesmith and Pritchard in that series, fwiw. Consider that the coaching staff are not just rolling the dice.

I'm a big proponent at using an array of statistics to get insight into a team or player, but even if Romeo's sample size were any more than the tiny one we got last year, the ones you quoted - or indeed most stats - aren't going to give you a good picture of what he was doing on the floor last year, let alone his basketball future.

I'm not arguing that he should be in the rotation going forward (I don't think he should), or even that the Celtics should keep developing him (I don't think they should).