3-way trade idea: BOS/CLE/POR

[celticsclay]

So we receive the 3rd and 5th best players in the deal?

Thompson is pretty clearly the worst player in that trade, though his contract is a lot better than Love's. 

I think Boston can do that trade, or something close to it without Brown included at all.  Put in Smart, Langford, R. Williams, and a future 1st or two and I think Portland might do it, especially if they decide to rebuild.  That said, Portland and Cleveland could just cut Boston out entirely and just do something like Love and Sexton for McCollum.

So we receive the 3rd and 5th best players in the deal?

Who is Tristan Thompson better than?

Tristan Thompson was better than Love last season. He's younger, owed less money and much more durable, alongside it being a wash as to who is actually better at playing basketball. No D vs no O

Thompson played in more games, though Love was healthy at the end of the year.  Love played 25 games last year and about 25 mpg.  He averaged 12.2, 7.4, 2.5 with a TS% of 55.6 though a still very respectable 36.5% from 3. 

So no I don't actually think Thompson was better than Love last year.  Healthier, yes.  A better contract, absolutely.  But better, no.

I think you're in the minority with that opinion.  those numbers you're posting for Love on a garbage team where he should have put up good numbers if he was close to the player he used to be, are very underwhelming.  add in the fact Love's a defensive sieve and TT is pretty clearly the better player.

Thompson isn't a very good defender though either.  He has a reputation as a defender, but he isn't actually a good defender. 

Put it this way, there is a reason Kevin Love was not only considered for, but actually made the US Olympic team and Thompson has never come close.

Love is better than Thompson.  He was better than him when they played on the same team with similar minutes and roles, and he was better than him last year.  Love's issue has been health and his massive contract.  If their contracts were identical, I think pretty much everyone would take Kevin Love over Tristan Thompson though.  Love can quite simply do more and give you more.

That's incredibly fallacious. People are screaming about Love making it because he's awful.

Thompson is by no means a very good defender. He's solid, with poor offence, and elite rebounding. Love is a terrible defender, solid on offence and with good rebounding. I'd say in a vacuum they're pretty equal, but basketball isn't played in a vacuum

Do I think Love should on the Olympic, of course not, he isn't good enough comparatively speaking.  But he did actually make the team after being considered for it, something Thompson didn't come close to, and the reason for that is Kevin Love is a better basketball player than Tristan Thompson.  That isn't a controversial statement at all.  They played on the same team for years, and Love was the better basketball player the entire time.  That didn't change all of a sudden last year even with Love's injury history. 

I firmly believe that all 30 teams would take Kevin Love over Tristan Thompson if they had the exact same contract.  They obviously don't have the exact same contract.  And to be clear Love's contract is terrible given both his propensity to miss games due to injury and what those injuries have done to his overall ability when he does play, but he is still better than Thompson.

you're using the olympic team as a bellwether of Love being a better player?  that's absolutely pitiful.

also saying all teams would take Love over TT if they had the same contract is (A) making stuff up to hopefully gain some ground on your opinion because they are most definitely not paid the same and (B) I doubt every team would make that same choice if for no other common sense reason than not every team has the same needs as well as teams being able to see Love as less durable than TT and a very inferior defender.

No I'm using the fact that Love is better than Thompson as the bellwether of Love being better.  Better scorer, better shooter, better passer, similar rebounder.  Thompson is better defensively, but not significantly enough to make up the difference basically everywhere else.  Love can do so much more for a basketball team because he is better and more valuable.  Love is also still very capable of going for 30 and 14 like he did to close his seasons against the Celtics when the Cavs beat the Celtics and basically ensured Boston was in the play-in game.

not a fact.  strictly your opinion

Yes, Moranis, quite simply, often does this.

[Muzzy66]

So we receive the 3rd and 5th best players in the deal?

Thompson is pretty clearly the worst player in that trade, though his contract is a lot better than Love's. 

I think Boston can do that trade, or something close to it without Brown included at all.  Put in Smart, Langford, R. Williams, and a future 1st or two and I think Portland might do it, especially if they decide to rebuild.  That said, Portland and Cleveland could just cut Boston out entirely and just do something like Love and Sexton for McCollum.

So we receive the 3rd and 5th best players in the deal?

Who is Tristan Thompson better than?

Tristan Thompson was better than Love last season. He's younger, owed less money and much more durable, alongside it being a wash as to who is actually better at playing basketball. No D vs no O

Thompson played in more games, though Love was healthy at the end of the year.  Love played 25 games last year and about 25 mpg.  He averaged 12.2, 7.4, 2.5 with a TS% of 55.6 though a still very respectable 36.5% from 3. 

So no I don't actually think Thompson was better than Love last year.  Healthier, yes.  A better contract, absolutely.  But better, no.

I think you're in the minority with that opinion.  those numbers you're posting for Love on a garbage team where he should have put up good numbers if he was close to the player he used to be, are very underwhelming.  add in the fact Love's a defensive sieve and TT is pretty clearly the better player.

Thompson isn't a very good defender though either.  He has a reputation as a defender, but he isn't actually a good defender. 

Put it this way, there is a reason Kevin Love was not only considered for, but actually made the US Olympic team and Thompson has never come close.

Love is better than Thompson.  He was better than him when they played on the same team with similar minutes and roles, and he was better than him last year.  Love's issue has been health and his massive contract.  If their contracts were identical, I think pretty much everyone would take Kevin Love over Tristan Thompson though.  Love can quite simply do more and give you more.

That's incredibly fallacious. People are screaming about Love making it because he's awful.

Thompson is by no means a very good defender. He's solid, with poor offence, and elite rebounding. Love is a terrible defender, solid on offence and with good rebounding. I'd say in a vacuum they're pretty equal, but basketball isn't played in a vacuum

Do I think Love should on the Olympic, of course not, he isn't good enough comparatively speaking.  But he did actually make the team after being considered for it, something Thompson didn't come close to, and the reason for that is Kevin Love is a better basketball player than Tristan Thompson.  That isn't a controversial statement at all.  They played on the same team for years, and Love was the better basketball player the entire time.  That didn't change all of a sudden last year even with Love's injury history. 

I firmly believe that all 30 teams would take Kevin Love over Tristan Thompson if they had the exact same contract.  They obviously don't have the exact same contract.  And to be clear Love's contract is terrible given both his propensity to miss games due to injury and what those injuries have done to his overall ability when he does play, but he is still better than Thompson.

you're using the olympic team as a bellwether of Love being a better player?  that's absolutely pitiful.

also saying all teams would take Love over TT if they had the same contract is (A) making stuff up to hopefully gain some ground on your opinion because they are most definitely not paid the same and (B) I doubt every team would make that same choice if for no other common sense reason than not every team has the same needs as well as teams being able to see Love as less durable than TT and a very inferior defender.

No I'm using the fact that Love is better than Thompson as the bellwether of Love being better.  Better scorer, better shooter, better passer, similar rebounder.  Thompson is better defensively, but not significantly enough to make up the difference basically everywhere else.  Love can do so much more for a basketball team because he is better and more valuable.  Love is also still very capable of going for 30 and 14 like he did to close his seasons against the Celtics when the Cavs beat the Celtics and basically ensured Boston was in the play-in game.

I think you need to look up the meaning of the word "fact".  Because "Love is better than Thompson" certainly is not a fact.

Better scorer, maybe/  Better passer, yes.   That's really about it. 

He's not a similar rebounder.  Love averaged 10.8 rebounds per 36 and a 16.7% rebound rate.  Thompson averaged 12.3 rebounds per 36 and a 19.0% rebound rate.  He's not twice as good a rebounder or anything like that, but he's clearly a significantly better rebounder at this point in their careers.

Thompson also shot 52% from the field and had a 37% free throw rate.  Love shot 41% from the field, had a 20% free throw rate.  Thompson clearly does a much better job of putting pressure on interior defences and drawing fouls, while making a higher percentage of his shots. 

And he's a superior defender, and he brings a level of toughness and physicality that Love is infamous for lacking - Love is about as mentally soft as they come.

[celticsclay]

So we receive the 3rd and 5th best players in the deal?

Thompson is pretty clearly the worst player in that trade, though his contract is a lot better than Love's. 

I think Boston can do that trade, or something close to it without Brown included at all.  Put in Smart, Langford, R. Williams, and a future 1st or two and I think Portland might do it, especially if they decide to rebuild.  That said, Portland and Cleveland could just cut Boston out entirely and just do something like Love and Sexton for McCollum.

So we receive the 3rd and 5th best players in the deal?

Who is Tristan Thompson better than?

Tristan Thompson was better than Love last season. He's younger, owed less money and much more durable, alongside it being a wash as to who is actually better at playing basketball. No D vs no O

Thompson played in more games, though Love was healthy at the end of the year.  Love played 25 games last year and about 25 mpg.  He averaged 12.2, 7.4, 2.5 with a TS% of 55.6 though a still very respectable 36.5% from 3. 

So no I don't actually think Thompson was better than Love last year.  Healthier, yes.  A better contract, absolutely.  But better, no.

I think you're in the minority with that opinion.  those numbers you're posting for Love on a garbage team where he should have put up good numbers if he was close to the player he used to be, are very underwhelming.  add in the fact Love's a defensive sieve and TT is pretty clearly the better player.

Thompson isn't a very good defender though either.  He has a reputation as a defender, but he isn't actually a good defender. 

Put it this way, there is a reason Kevin Love was not only considered for, but actually made the US Olympic team and Thompson has never come close.

Love is better than Thompson.  He was better than him when they played on the same team with similar minutes and roles, and he was better than him last year.  Love's issue has been health and his massive contract.  If their contracts were identical, I think pretty much everyone would take Kevin Love over Tristan Thompson though.  Love can quite simply do more and give you more.

That's incredibly fallacious. People are screaming about Love making it because he's awful.

Thompson is by no means a very good defender. He's solid, with poor offence, and elite rebounding. Love is a terrible defender, solid on offence and with good rebounding. I'd say in a vacuum they're pretty equal, but basketball isn't played in a vacuum

Do I think Love should on the Olympic, of course not, he isn't good enough comparatively speaking.  But he did actually make the team after being considered for it, something Thompson didn't come close to, and the reason for that is Kevin Love is a better basketball player than Tristan Thompson.  That isn't a controversial statement at all.  They played on the same team for years, and Love was the better basketball player the entire time.  That didn't change all of a sudden last year even with Love's injury history. 

I firmly believe that all 30 teams would take Kevin Love over Tristan Thompson if they had the exact same contract.  They obviously don't have the exact same contract.  And to be clear Love's contract is terrible given both his propensity to miss games due to injury and what those injuries have done to his overall ability when he does play, but he is still better than Thompson.

you're using the olympic team as a bellwether of Love being a better player?  that's absolutely pitiful.

also saying all teams would take Love over TT if they had the same contract is (A) making stuff up to hopefully gain some ground on your opinion because they are most definitely not paid the same and (B) I doubt every team would make that same choice if for no other common sense reason than not every team has the same needs as well as teams being able to see Love as less durable than TT and a very inferior defender.

No I'm using the fact that Love is better than Thompson as the bellwether of Love being better.  Better scorer, better shooter, better passer, similar rebounder.  Thompson is better defensively, but not significantly enough to make up the difference basically everywhere else.  Love can do so much more for a basketball team because he is better and more valuable.  Love is also still very capable of going for 30 and 14 like he did to close his seasons against the Celtics when the Cavs beat the Celtics and basically ensured Boston was in the play-in game.

I think you need to look up the meaning of the word "fact".  Because "Love is better than Thompson" certainly is not a fact.

Better scorer, maybe/  Better passer, yes.   That's really about it. 

He's not a similar rebounder.  Love averaged 10.8 rebounds per 36 and a 16.7% rebound rate.  Thompson averaged 12.3 rebounds per 36 and a 19.0% rebound rate.  He's not twice as good a rebounder or anything like that, but he's clearly a significantly better rebounder at this point in their careers.

Thompson also shot 52% from the field and had a 37% free throw rate.  Love shot 41% from the field, had a 20% free throw rate.  Thompson clearly does a much better job of putting pressure on interior defences and drawing fouls, while making a higher percentage of his shots. 

And he's a superior defender, and he brings a level of toughness and physicality that Love is infamous for lacking - Love is about as mentally soft as they come.

Yea, I know Thompson was not what we really hoped for when we signed him, but he at least was a competent playoff rotation player. Love has played so little in the last 3 years we don't even know what he is at this point.

[Moranis]

So we receive the 3rd and 5th best players in the deal?

Thompson is pretty clearly the worst player in that trade, though his contract is a lot better than Love's. 

I think Boston can do that trade, or something close to it without Brown included at all.  Put in Smart, Langford, R. Williams, and a future 1st or two and I think Portland might do it, especially if they decide to rebuild.  That said, Portland and Cleveland could just cut Boston out entirely and just do something like Love and Sexton for McCollum.

So we receive the 3rd and 5th best players in the deal?

Who is Tristan Thompson better than?

Tristan Thompson was better than Love last season. He's younger, owed less money and much more durable, alongside it being a wash as to who is actually better at playing basketball. No D vs no O

Thompson played in more games, though Love was healthy at the end of the year.  Love played 25 games last year and about 25 mpg.  He averaged 12.2, 7.4, 2.5 with a TS% of 55.6 though a still very respectable 36.5% from 3. 

So no I don't actually think Thompson was better than Love last year.  Healthier, yes.  A better contract, absolutely.  But better, no.

I think you're in the minority with that opinion.  those numbers you're posting for Love on a garbage team where he should have put up good numbers if he was close to the player he used to be, are very underwhelming.  add in the fact Love's a defensive sieve and TT is pretty clearly the better player.

Thompson isn't a very good defender though either.  He has a reputation as a defender, but he isn't actually a good defender. 

Put it this way, there is a reason Kevin Love was not only considered for, but actually made the US Olympic team and Thompson has never come close.

Love is better than Thompson.  He was better than him when they played on the same team with similar minutes and roles, and he was better than him last year.  Love's issue has been health and his massive contract.  If their contracts were identical, I think pretty much everyone would take Kevin Love over Tristan Thompson though.  Love can quite simply do more and give you more.

That's incredibly fallacious. People are screaming about Love making it because he's awful.

Thompson is by no means a very good defender. He's solid, with poor offence, and elite rebounding. Love is a terrible defender, solid on offence and with good rebounding. I'd say in a vacuum they're pretty equal, but basketball isn't played in a vacuum

Do I think Love should on the Olympic, of course not, he isn't good enough comparatively speaking.  But he did actually make the team after being considered for it, something Thompson didn't come close to, and the reason for that is Kevin Love is a better basketball player than Tristan Thompson.  That isn't a controversial statement at all.  They played on the same team for years, and Love was the better basketball player the entire time.  That didn't change all of a sudden last year even with Love's injury history. 

I firmly believe that all 30 teams would take Kevin Love over Tristan Thompson if they had the exact same contract.  They obviously don't have the exact same contract.  And to be clear Love's contract is terrible given both his propensity to miss games due to injury and what those injuries have done to his overall ability when he does play, but he is still better than Thompson.

you're using the olympic team as a bellwether of Love being a better player?  that's absolutely pitiful.

also saying all teams would take Love over TT if they had the same contract is (A) making stuff up to hopefully gain some ground on your opinion because they are most definitely not paid the same and (B) I doubt every team would make that same choice if for no other common sense reason than not every team has the same needs as well as teams being able to see Love as less durable than TT and a very inferior defender.

No I'm using the fact that Love is better than Thompson as the bellwether of Love being better.  Better scorer, better shooter, better passer, similar rebounder.  Thompson is better defensively, but not significantly enough to make up the difference basically everywhere else.  Love can do so much more for a basketball team because he is better and more valuable.  Love is also still very capable of going for 30 and 14 like he did to close his seasons against the Celtics when the Cavs beat the Celtics and basically ensured Boston was in the play-in game.

I certainly don't think it is entirely clear every team would take Love over Thompson because it is kind of 70-80 games of Thompson versus an expected 40-50 games of Love (that may be being generous as Love has a high of 60 games played in the last 5 years and is obviously now actually old. I am also not sure how playable he is for major minutes in the playoffs right now, because even if he did make it through the season healthy to reach the playoffs, he is so bad on defense teams would target him non stop on defense. I think you are looking at the past more than looking at the future and Tristan is a few years younger than Love with way less injury history.

Thompson is not exactly a picture of health

17-18 - Love played more games than Thompson 59 to 53
18-19 - Love only played 22 games, but Thompson missed half the season as well at 43 games
19-20 - Basically the same games, Thompson 57, Love 56 and a lot of games Love missed were the 2nd day of back to backs (so not injured)
20-21 - Love only played 25 games to Thompson's 54, though Love did close the year healthy

Obviously Thompson has played more games over the last 4 years, but it isn't nearly as big a difference as you are making it seem.  Thompson is always getting banged up and is also now on the wrong side of 30.  For me the much larger point is that Love is just a more impactful player because he can do so much more than Thompson on the floor.  Love can still drop 30 and grab 14 rebounds.  He is a much better passer and shooter.  He is obviously a worse defender, but Thompson isn't exactly a shot blocker or steal generator.  He plays solid man defense, but that is about it.  If nothing else, you can let Love sit in the corner and hit open 3's and then have him clean up the glass defensively.  He hits his foul shots as well and doesn't turn the ball over at anywhere near the rate Thompson does. 

Love was better, is better, and will still be a better player than Thompson next year.  They are both overpaid for what they provide, but Love is obviously way more overpaid and as such would have way less interest from teams given their current contracts.  However, I absolutely believe that if they were both free agents tomorrow and willing to play for the same contract, Love would get way more interest than Thompson, because Love can actually win you games still.

[celticsclay]

So we receive the 3rd and 5th best players in the deal?

Thompson is pretty clearly the worst player in that trade, though his contract is a lot better than Love's. 

I think Boston can do that trade, or something close to it without Brown included at all.  Put in Smart, Langford, R. Williams, and a future 1st or two and I think Portland might do it, especially if they decide to rebuild.  That said, Portland and Cleveland could just cut Boston out entirely and just do something like Love and Sexton for McCollum.

So we receive the 3rd and 5th best players in the deal?

Who is Tristan Thompson better than?

Tristan Thompson was better than Love last season. He's younger, owed less money and much more durable, alongside it being a wash as to who is actually better at playing basketball. No D vs no O

Thompson played in more games, though Love was healthy at the end of the year.  Love played 25 games last year and about 25 mpg.  He averaged 12.2, 7.4, 2.5 with a TS% of 55.6 though a still very respectable 36.5% from 3. 

So no I don't actually think Thompson was better than Love last year.  Healthier, yes.  A better contract, absolutely.  But better, no.

I think you're in the minority with that opinion.  those numbers you're posting for Love on a garbage team where he should have put up good numbers if he was close to the player he used to be, are very underwhelming.  add in the fact Love's a defensive sieve and TT is pretty clearly the better player.

Thompson isn't a very good defender though either.  He has a reputation as a defender, but he isn't actually a good defender. 

Put it this way, there is a reason Kevin Love was not only considered for, but actually made the US Olympic team and Thompson has never come close.

Love is better than Thompson.  He was better than him when they played on the same team with similar minutes and roles, and he was better than him last year.  Love's issue has been health and his massive contract.  If their contracts were identical, I think pretty much everyone would take Kevin Love over Tristan Thompson though.  Love can quite simply do more and give you more.

That's incredibly fallacious. People are screaming about Love making it because he's awful.

Thompson is by no means a very good defender. He's solid, with poor offence, and elite rebounding. Love is a terrible defender, solid on offence and with good rebounding. I'd say in a vacuum they're pretty equal, but basketball isn't played in a vacuum

Do I think Love should on the Olympic, of course not, he isn't good enough comparatively speaking.  But he did actually make the team after being considered for it, something Thompson didn't come close to, and the reason for that is Kevin Love is a better basketball player than Tristan Thompson.  That isn't a controversial statement at all.  They played on the same team for years, and Love was the better basketball player the entire time.  That didn't change all of a sudden last year even with Love's injury history. 

I firmly believe that all 30 teams would take Kevin Love over Tristan Thompson if they had the exact same contract.  They obviously don't have the exact same contract.  And to be clear Love's contract is terrible given both his propensity to miss games due to injury and what those injuries have done to his overall ability when he does play, but he is still better than Thompson.

you're using the olympic team as a bellwether of Love being a better player?  that's absolutely pitiful.

also saying all teams would take Love over TT if they had the same contract is (A) making stuff up to hopefully gain some ground on your opinion because they are most definitely not paid the same and (B) I doubt every team would make that same choice if for no other common sense reason than not every team has the same needs as well as teams being able to see Love as less durable than TT and a very inferior defender.

No I'm using the fact that Love is better than Thompson as the bellwether of Love being better.  Better scorer, better shooter, better passer, similar rebounder.  Thompson is better defensively, but not significantly enough to make up the difference basically everywhere else.  Love can do so much more for a basketball team because he is better and more valuable.  Love is also still very capable of going for 30 and 14 like he did to close his seasons against the Celtics when the Cavs beat the Celtics and basically ensured Boston was in the play-in game.

I certainly don't think it is entirely clear every team would take Love over Thompson because it is kind of 70-80 games of Thompson versus an expected 40-50 games of Love (that may be being generous as Love has a high of 60 games played in the last 5 years and is obviously now actually old. I am also not sure how playable he is for major minutes in the playoffs right now, because even if he did make it through the season healthy to reach the playoffs, he is so bad on defense teams would target him non stop on defense. I think you are looking at the past more than looking at the future and Tristan is a few years younger than Love with way less injury history.

Thompson is not exactly a picture of health

17-18 - Love played more games than Thompson 59 to 53
18-19 - Love only played 22 games, but Thompson missed half the season as well at 43 games
19-20 - Basically the same games, Thompson 57, Love 56 and a lot of games Love missed were the 2nd day of back to backs (so not injured)
20-21 - Love only played 25 games to Thompson's 54, though Love did close the year healthy

Obviously Thompson has played more games over the last 4 years, but it isn't nearly as big a difference as you are making it seem.  Thompson is always getting banged up and is also now on the wrong side of 30.  For me the much larger point is that Love is just a more impactful player because he can do so much more than Thompson on the floor.  Love can still drop 30 and grab 14 rebounds.  He is a much better passer and shooter.  He is obviously a worse defender, but Thompson isn't exactly a shot blocker or steal generator.  He plays solid man defense, but that is about it.  If nothing else, you can let Love sit in the corner and hit open 3's and then have him clean up the glass defensively.  He hits his foul shots as well and doesn't turn the ball over at anywhere near the rate Thompson does. 

Love was better, is better, and will still be a better player than Thompson next year.  They are both overpaid for what they provide, but Love is obviously way more overpaid and as such would have way less interest from teams given their current contracts.  However, I absolutely believe that if they were both free agents tomorrow and willing to play for the same contract, Love would get way more interest than Thompson, because Love can actually win you games still.

How many games would you say Love has won for Cleveland the last 3 years?

[Moranis]

So we receive the 3rd and 5th best players in the deal?

Thompson is pretty clearly the worst player in that trade, though his contract is a lot better than Love's. 

I think Boston can do that trade, or something close to it without Brown included at all.  Put in Smart, Langford, R. Williams, and a future 1st or two and I think Portland might do it, especially if they decide to rebuild.  That said, Portland and Cleveland could just cut Boston out entirely and just do something like Love and Sexton for McCollum.

So we receive the 3rd and 5th best players in the deal?

Who is Tristan Thompson better than?

Tristan Thompson was better than Love last season. He's younger, owed less money and much more durable, alongside it being a wash as to who is actually better at playing basketball. No D vs no O

Thompson played in more games, though Love was healthy at the end of the year.  Love played 25 games last year and about 25 mpg.  He averaged 12.2, 7.4, 2.5 with a TS% of 55.6 though a still very respectable 36.5% from 3. 

So no I don't actually think Thompson was better than Love last year.  Healthier, yes.  A better contract, absolutely.  But better, no.

I think you're in the minority with that opinion.  those numbers you're posting for Love on a garbage team where he should have put up good numbers if he was close to the player he used to be, are very underwhelming.  add in the fact Love's a defensive sieve and TT is pretty clearly the better player.

Thompson isn't a very good defender though either.  He has a reputation as a defender, but he isn't actually a good defender. 

Put it this way, there is a reason Kevin Love was not only considered for, but actually made the US Olympic team and Thompson has never come close.

Love is better than Thompson.  He was better than him when they played on the same team with similar minutes and roles, and he was better than him last year.  Love's issue has been health and his massive contract.  If their contracts were identical, I think pretty much everyone would take Kevin Love over Tristan Thompson though.  Love can quite simply do more and give you more.

That's incredibly fallacious. People are screaming about Love making it because he's awful.

Thompson is by no means a very good defender. He's solid, with poor offence, and elite rebounding. Love is a terrible defender, solid on offence and with good rebounding. I'd say in a vacuum they're pretty equal, but basketball isn't played in a vacuum

Do I think Love should on the Olympic, of course not, he isn't good enough comparatively speaking.  But he did actually make the team after being considered for it, something Thompson didn't come close to, and the reason for that is Kevin Love is a better basketball player than Tristan Thompson.  That isn't a controversial statement at all.  They played on the same team for years, and Love was the better basketball player the entire time.  That didn't change all of a sudden last year even with Love's injury history. 

I firmly believe that all 30 teams would take Kevin Love over Tristan Thompson if they had the exact same contract.  They obviously don't have the exact same contract.  And to be clear Love's contract is terrible given both his propensity to miss games due to injury and what those injuries have done to his overall ability when he does play, but he is still better than Thompson.

you're using the olympic team as a bellwether of Love being a better player?  that's absolutely pitiful.

also saying all teams would take Love over TT if they had the same contract is (A) making stuff up to hopefully gain some ground on your opinion because they are most definitely not paid the same and (B) I doubt every team would make that same choice if for no other common sense reason than not every team has the same needs as well as teams being able to see Love as less durable than TT and a very inferior defender.

No I'm using the fact that Love is better than Thompson as the bellwether of Love being better.  Better scorer, better shooter, better passer, similar rebounder.  Thompson is better defensively, but not significantly enough to make up the difference basically everywhere else.  Love can do so much more for a basketball team because he is better and more valuable.  Love is also still very capable of going for 30 and 14 like he did to close his seasons against the Celtics when the Cavs beat the Celtics and basically ensured Boston was in the play-in game.

I certainly don't think it is entirely clear every team would take Love over Thompson because it is kind of 70-80 games of Thompson versus an expected 40-50 games of Love (that may be being generous as Love has a high of 60 games played in the last 5 years and is obviously now actually old. I am also not sure how playable he is for major minutes in the playoffs right now, because even if he did make it through the season healthy to reach the playoffs, he is so bad on defense teams would target him non stop on defense. I think you are looking at the past more than looking at the future and Tristan is a few years younger than Love with way less injury history.

Thompson is not exactly a picture of health

17-18 - Love played more games than Thompson 59 to 53
18-19 - Love only played 22 games, but Thompson missed half the season as well at 43 games
19-20 - Basically the same games, Thompson 57, Love 56 and a lot of games Love missed were the 2nd day of back to backs (so not injured)
20-21 - Love only played 25 games to Thompson's 54, though Love did close the year healthy

Obviously Thompson has played more games over the last 4 years, but it isn't nearly as big a difference as you are making it seem.  Thompson is always getting banged up and is also now on the wrong side of 30.  For me the much larger point is that Love is just a more impactful player because he can do so much more than Thompson on the floor.  Love can still drop 30 and grab 14 rebounds.  He is a much better passer and shooter.  He is obviously a worse defender, but Thompson isn't exactly a shot blocker or steal generator.  He plays solid man defense, but that is about it.  If nothing else, you can let Love sit in the corner and hit open 3's and then have him clean up the glass defensively.  He hits his foul shots as well and doesn't turn the ball over at anywhere near the rate Thompson does. 

Love was better, is better, and will still be a better player than Thompson next year.  They are both overpaid for what they provide, but Love is obviously way more overpaid and as such would have way less interest from teams given their current contracts.  However, I absolutely believe that if they were both free agents tomorrow and willing to play for the same contract, Love would get way more interest than Thompson, because Love can actually win you games still.

How many games would you say Love has won for Cleveland the last 3 years?

more than Thompson.  I mean Love pretty much single handily beat Boston at the end of this past season.  Thompson didn't win Boston any games this year.

[pearljammer10]

This is not a good trade for Boston. At all.

If Brown is included in a package the returns we should be looking at are Beal, Lillard, not even CJ.

I was a big fan of adding Love for cheap but then we got Horford instead. I also want zero part of Sexton. Players who are "commanding" max money that aren't max players and can't help their teams with are bad news.

I think it makes sense for Portland to try and get Love but I don't think CJ is the guy you move there unless the pieces coming back are very appealing.

[wiley]

So we receive the 3rd and 5th best players in the deal?

Thompson is pretty clearly the worst player in that trade, though his contract is a lot better than Love's. 

I think Boston can do that trade, or something close to it without Brown included at all.  Put in Smart, Langford, R. Williams, and a future 1st or two and I think Portland might do it, especially if they decide to rebuild.  That said, Portland and Cleveland could just cut Boston out entirely and just do something like Love and Sexton for McCollum.

Terrible for Boston also...you have an incredibly low opinion of Smart and R. Will, not to mention adding Romeo and 2 firsts...
I know you were just tossing ideas around but...

CJ McCollum is BY FAR the best player in that trade.  It isn't close.  Over the last 5 seasons as a 2nd option on a winning team he has basically averaged 22/4/4 shooting 39.4% from 3, 49.4% from 2, and 83.9% from the line.  If Boston acquired him while keeping Tatum, Brown, and Horford, they'd have a real shot at competing for titles over the next couple of seasons.  Smart, Thompson, R. Williams, and a couple of late 1st's is absolutely worth taking a shot with McCollum. 

McCollum, Fournier, Brown, Tatum, Horford with Pritchard, Langford, Nesmith, Parker, Brown is a nice solid 2 deep team and you still have G. Williams, Ojeleye, Kornet, and Edwards to round out the roster (with 1 open spot)

When was it announced that Robert Williams is a finished product? 
McCollum is the best offensive player in the deal Ill give you that...
Amyway you had Romeo in there on top of all that...too steep for me by a lot...

True, I did.  And you still do that trade and don't give it a second thought.  Some veteran role players and some unproven young players that can't stay healthy are absolutely worth CJ McCollum, which is why Portland wouldn't do that.

Sorry to drag this back, but here in this thread you are doubling down on Smart, Robert Williams, Romeo Langford and a first round pick or 2 for McCollum, saying you do that trade and "don't give it a second thought"

But I just noticed in the McCollum thread you proposed a three way deal in which the C's give up Smart, Thompson and Grant Williams and no picks, and get back McCollum and Looney, and you described that as a sound deal for all teams.

Do you see the disparity in your two posts about going after McCollum?

or do you see Thompson plus Grant Williams being equal to Robert Williams, Romeo and one or two first round picks?  I personally see that as a wide gap in assets.

[Moranis]

So we receive the 3rd and 5th best players in the deal?

Thompson is pretty clearly the worst player in that trade, though his contract is a lot better than Love's. 

I think Boston can do that trade, or something close to it without Brown included at all.  Put in Smart, Langford, R. Williams, and a future 1st or two and I think Portland might do it, especially if they decide to rebuild.  That said, Portland and Cleveland could just cut Boston out entirely and just do something like Love and Sexton for McCollum.

Terrible for Boston also...you have an incredibly low opinion of Smart and R. Will, not to mention adding Romeo and 2 firsts...
I know you were just tossing ideas around but...

CJ McCollum is BY FAR the best player in that trade.  It isn't close.  Over the last 5 seasons as a 2nd option on a winning team he has basically averaged 22/4/4 shooting 39.4% from 3, 49.4% from 2, and 83.9% from the line.  If Boston acquired him while keeping Tatum, Brown, and Horford, they'd have a real shot at competing for titles over the next couple of seasons.  Smart, Thompson, R. Williams, and a couple of late 1st's is absolutely worth taking a shot with McCollum. 

McCollum, Fournier, Brown, Tatum, Horford with Pritchard, Langford, Nesmith, Parker, Brown is a nice solid 2 deep team and you still have G. Williams, Ojeleye, Kornet, and Edwards to round out the roster (with 1 open spot)

When was it announced that Robert Williams is a finished product? 
McCollum is the best offensive player in the deal Ill give you that...
Amyway you had Romeo in there on top of all that...too steep for me by a lot...

True, I did.  And you still do that trade and don't give it a second thought.  Some veteran role players and some unproven young players that can't stay healthy are absolutely worth CJ McCollum, which is why Portland wouldn't do that.

Sorry to drag this back, but here in this thread you are doubling down on Smart, Robert Williams, Romeo Langford and a first round pick or 2 for McCollum, saying you do that trade and "don't give it a second thought"

But I just noticed in the McCollum thread you proposed a three way deal in which the C's give up Smart, Thompson and Grant Williams and no picks, and get back McCollum and Looney, and you described that as a sound deal for all teams.

Do you see the disparity in your two posts about going after McCollum?

or do you see Thompson plus Grant Williams being equal to Robert Williams, Romeo and one or two first round picks?  I personally see that as a wide gap in assets.

one trade includes GS, one trade does not.  Different teams value things differently. 

[wiley]

So we receive the 3rd and 5th best players in the deal?

Thompson is pretty clearly the worst player in that trade, though his contract is a lot better than Love's. 

I think Boston can do that trade, or something close to it without Brown included at all.  Put in Smart, Langford, R. Williams, and a future 1st or two and I think Portland might do it, especially if they decide to rebuild.  That said, Portland and Cleveland could just cut Boston out entirely and just do something like Love and Sexton for McCollum.

Terrible for Boston also...you have an incredibly low opinion of Smart and R. Will, not to mention adding Romeo and 2 firsts...
I know you were just tossing ideas around but...

CJ McCollum is BY FAR the best player in that trade.  It isn't close.  Over the last 5 seasons as a 2nd option on a winning team he has basically averaged 22/4/4 shooting 39.4% from 3, 49.4% from 2, and 83.9% from the line.  If Boston acquired him while keeping Tatum, Brown, and Horford, they'd have a real shot at competing for titles over the next couple of seasons.  Smart, Thompson, R. Williams, and a couple of late 1st's is absolutely worth taking a shot with McCollum. 

McCollum, Fournier, Brown, Tatum, Horford with Pritchard, Langford, Nesmith, Parker, Brown is a nice solid 2 deep team and you still have G. Williams, Ojeleye, Kornet, and Edwards to round out the roster (with 1 open spot)

When was it announced that Robert Williams is a finished product? 
McCollum is the best offensive player in the deal Ill give you that...
Amyway you had Romeo in there on top of all that...too steep for me by a lot...

True, I did.  And you still do that trade and don't give it a second thought.  Some veteran role players and some unproven young players that can't stay healthy are absolutely worth CJ McCollum, which is why Portland wouldn't do that.

Sorry to drag this back, but here in this thread you are doubling down on Smart, Robert Williams, Romeo Langford and a first round pick or 2 for McCollum, saying you do that trade and "don't give it a second thought"

But I just noticed in the McCollum thread you proposed a three way deal in which the C's give up Smart, Thompson and Grant Williams and no picks, and get back McCollum and Looney, and you described that as a sound deal for all teams.

Do you see the disparity in your two posts about going after McCollum?

or do you see Thompson plus Grant Williams being equal to Robert Williams, Romeo and one or two first round picks?  I personally see that as a wide gap in assets.

one trade includes GS, one trade does not.  Different teams value things differently.

Not sure what this has to do with how much the Celtics give up for McCollum?

In one of your ideas, (IDEA A), the Celtics
A:  possess McCollum Robert Williams, Kevon Looney, Romeo Langford
B:  keep all their draft picks
C.  lose Smart, Thompson, G. Williams

In your other idea, (IDEA B),  the Celtics
A. possess McCollum, Thompson, GWill
B. lose one or two first round draft picks
C. lose Smart, Rob Williams and Romeo Langford

These are vastly different way to value McCollum imo.  When I criticized the second one (the non Golden State one), you responded that it was a no-brainer.  Meanwhile you described the other of these two examples as sound (I agree, idea A is sound enough).  Either you weren't being intellectually honest, or you're afraid to admit that you were just tossing out ideas without much thought (which is what I originally suggested may be the case and is of course fine). 

I'm only picking on this discrepancy because you sometimes throw things out as hard facts and certainty.  If you want to be someone people can look to for cold hard facts, then you should be intellectually honest. 

I will assume you ARE being intellectually honest, which implies that you
really feel that Rob Williams and Romeo are non-starters as NBA players, bad enough that you can add picks to them, and that Looney is no great shakes, and that Thompson and G will are quite valuable in trades.  These are the implications of viewing your two trade ideas for McCollum as equally doable, one being "sound" and the other (the worse one imo) a "no brainer" that you "don't think twice about".

[Moranis]

So we receive the 3rd and 5th best players in the deal?

Thompson is pretty clearly the worst player in that trade, though his contract is a lot better than Love's. 

I think Boston can do that trade, or something close to it without Brown included at all.  Put in Smart, Langford, R. Williams, and a future 1st or two and I think Portland might do it, especially if they decide to rebuild.  That said, Portland and Cleveland could just cut Boston out entirely and just do something like Love and Sexton for McCollum.

Terrible for Boston also...you have an incredibly low opinion of Smart and R. Will, not to mention adding Romeo and 2 firsts...
I know you were just tossing ideas around but...

CJ McCollum is BY FAR the best player in that trade.  It isn't close.  Over the last 5 seasons as a 2nd option on a winning team he has basically averaged 22/4/4 shooting 39.4% from 3, 49.4% from 2, and 83.9% from the line.  If Boston acquired him while keeping Tatum, Brown, and Horford, they'd have a real shot at competing for titles over the next couple of seasons.  Smart, Thompson, R. Williams, and a couple of late 1st's is absolutely worth taking a shot with McCollum. 

McCollum, Fournier, Brown, Tatum, Horford with Pritchard, Langford, Nesmith, Parker, Brown is a nice solid 2 deep team and you still have G. Williams, Ojeleye, Kornet, and Edwards to round out the roster (with 1 open spot)

When was it announced that Robert Williams is a finished product? 
McCollum is the best offensive player in the deal Ill give you that...
Amyway you had Romeo in there on top of all that...too steep for me by a lot...

True, I did.  And you still do that trade and don't give it a second thought.  Some veteran role players and some unproven young players that can't stay healthy are absolutely worth CJ McCollum, which is why Portland wouldn't do that.

Sorry to drag this back, but here in this thread you are doubling down on Smart, Robert Williams, Romeo Langford and a first round pick or 2 for McCollum, saying you do that trade and "don't give it a second thought"

But I just noticed in the McCollum thread you proposed a three way deal in which the C's give up Smart, Thompson and Grant Williams and no picks, and get back McCollum and Looney, and you described that as a sound deal for all teams.

Do you see the disparity in your two posts about going after McCollum?

or do you see Thompson plus Grant Williams being equal to Robert Williams, Romeo and one or two first round picks?  I personally see that as a wide gap in assets.

one trade includes GS, one trade does not.  Different teams value things differently.

Not sure what this has to do with how much the Celtics give up for McCollum?

In one of your ideas, (IDEA A), the Celtics
A:  possess McCollum Robert Williams, Kevon Looney, Romeo Langford
B:  keep all their draft picks
C.  lose Smart, Thompson, G. Williams

In your other idea, (IDEA B),  the Celtics
A. possess McCollum, Thompson, GWill
B. lose one or two first round draft picks
C. lose Smart, Rob Williams and Romeo Langford

These are vastly different way to value McCollum imo.  When I criticized the second one (the non Golden State one), you responded that it was a no-brainer.  Meanwhile you described the other of these two examples as sound (I agree, idea A is sound enough).  Either you weren't being intellectually honest, or you're afraid to admit that you were just tossing out ideas without much thought (which is what I originally suggested may be the case and is of course fine). 

I'm only picking on this discrepancy because you sometimes throw things out as hard facts and certainty.  If you want to be someone people can look to for cold hard facts, then you should be intellectually honest. 

I will assume you ARE being intellectually honest, which implies that you
really feel that Rob Williams and Romeo are non-starters as NBA players, bad enough that you can add picks to them, and that Looney is no great shakes, and that Thompson and G will are quite valuable in trades.  These are the implications of viewing your two trade ideas for McCollum as equally doable, one being "sound" and the other (the worse one imo) a "no brainer" that you "don't think twice about".

I'd do either trade without giving either a 2nd thought, but trades involving different teams have different values.  What GS values is different than what other teams value i.e. the huge cap savings they get is worth a ton to them, and isn't worth as much to other teams.  That also holds true with players like Thompson and Smart who have far more value to GS than to a team like the Cavs.  That is one of the reasons multi-team trades are very rare, because it is hard to get the value right.

[wiley]

So we receive the 3rd and 5th best players in the deal?

Thompson is pretty clearly the worst player in that trade, though his contract is a lot better than Love's. 

I think Boston can do that trade, or something close to it without Brown included at all.  Put in Smart, Langford, R. Williams, and a future 1st or two and I think Portland might do it, especially if they decide to rebuild.  That said, Portland and Cleveland could just cut Boston out entirely and just do something like Love and Sexton for McCollum.

Terrible for Boston also...you have an incredibly low opinion of Smart and R. Will, not to mention adding Romeo and 2 firsts...
I know you were just tossing ideas around but...

CJ McCollum is BY FAR the best player in that trade.  It isn't close.  Over the last 5 seasons as a 2nd option on a winning team he has basically averaged 22/4/4 shooting 39.4% from 3, 49.4% from 2, and 83.9% from the line.  If Boston acquired him while keeping Tatum, Brown, and Horford, they'd have a real shot at competing for titles over the next couple of seasons.  Smart, Thompson, R. Williams, and a couple of late 1st's is absolutely worth taking a shot with McCollum. 

McCollum, Fournier, Brown, Tatum, Horford with Pritchard, Langford, Nesmith, Parker, Brown is a nice solid 2 deep team and you still have G. Williams, Ojeleye, Kornet, and Edwards to round out the roster (with 1 open spot)

When was it announced that Robert Williams is a finished product? 
McCollum is the best offensive player in the deal Ill give you that...
Amyway you had Romeo in there on top of all that...too steep for me by a lot...

True, I did.  And you still do that trade and don't give it a second thought.  Some veteran role players and some unproven young players that can't stay healthy are absolutely worth CJ McCollum, which is why Portland wouldn't do that.

Sorry to drag this back, but here in this thread you are doubling down on Smart, Robert Williams, Romeo Langford and a first round pick or 2 for McCollum, saying you do that trade and "don't give it a second thought"

But I just noticed in the McCollum thread you proposed a three way deal in which the C's give up Smart, Thompson and Grant Williams and no picks, and get back McCollum and Looney, and you described that as a sound deal for all teams.

Do you see the disparity in your two posts about going after McCollum?

or do you see Thompson plus Grant Williams being equal to Robert Williams, Romeo and one or two first round picks?  I personally see that as a wide gap in assets.

one trade includes GS, one trade does not.  Different teams value things differently.

Not sure what this has to do with how much the Celtics give up for McCollum?

In one of your ideas, (IDEA A), the Celtics
A:  possess McCollum Robert Williams, Kevon Looney, Romeo Langford
B:  keep all their draft picks
C.  lose Smart, Thompson, G. Williams

In your other idea, (IDEA B),  the Celtics
A. possess McCollum, Thompson, GWill
B. lose one or two first round draft picks
C. lose Smart, Rob Williams and Romeo Langford

These are vastly different way to value McCollum imo.  When I criticized the second one (the non Golden State one), you responded that it was a no-brainer.  Meanwhile you described the other of these two examples as sound (I agree, idea A is sound enough).  Either you weren't being intellectually honest, or you're afraid to admit that you were just tossing out ideas without much thought (which is what I originally suggested may be the case and is of course fine). 

I'm only picking on this discrepancy because you sometimes throw things out as hard facts and certainty.  If you want to be someone people can look to for cold hard facts, then you should be intellectually honest. 

I will assume you ARE being intellectually honest, which implies that you
really feel that Rob Williams and Romeo are non-starters as NBA players, bad enough that you can add picks to them, and that Looney is no great shakes, and that Thompson and G will are quite valuable in trades.  These are the implications of viewing your two trade ideas for McCollum as equally doable, one being "sound" and the other (the worse one imo) a "no brainer" that you "don't think twice about".

I'd do either trade without giving either a 2nd thought, but trades involving different teams have different values.  What GS values is different than what other teams value i.e. the huge cap savings they get is worth a ton to them, and isn't worth as much to other teams.  That also holds true with players like Thompson and Smart who have far more value to GS than to a team like the Cavs.  That is one of the reasons multi-team trades are very rare, because it is hard to get the value right.

fair enough then...my own sense is that if McCollum gets traded it will be for much less than Smart, R. Will, Romeo and first rounders. 

And if McCollum is not traded, I'm guessing that over the course of this season you'll change your mind about that trade being a good one....hope so...and would love to revisit this one in the Fall sometime.  You gave up the farm for an expensive one way player, albeit a very good scorer.

[Moranis]

So we receive the 3rd and 5th best players in the deal?

Thompson is pretty clearly the worst player in that trade, though his contract is a lot better than Love's. 

I think Boston can do that trade, or something close to it without Brown included at all.  Put in Smart, Langford, R. Williams, and a future 1st or two and I think Portland might do it, especially if they decide to rebuild.  That said, Portland and Cleveland could just cut Boston out entirely and just do something like Love and Sexton for McCollum.

Terrible for Boston also...you have an incredibly low opinion of Smart and R. Will, not to mention adding Romeo and 2 firsts...
I know you were just tossing ideas around but...

CJ McCollum is BY FAR the best player in that trade.  It isn't close.  Over the last 5 seasons as a 2nd option on a winning team he has basically averaged 22/4/4 shooting 39.4% from 3, 49.4% from 2, and 83.9% from the line.  If Boston acquired him while keeping Tatum, Brown, and Horford, they'd have a real shot at competing for titles over the next couple of seasons.  Smart, Thompson, R. Williams, and a couple of late 1st's is absolutely worth taking a shot with McCollum. 

McCollum, Fournier, Brown, Tatum, Horford with Pritchard, Langford, Nesmith, Parker, Brown is a nice solid 2 deep team and you still have G. Williams, Ojeleye, Kornet, and Edwards to round out the roster (with 1 open spot)

When was it announced that Robert Williams is a finished product? 
McCollum is the best offensive player in the deal Ill give you that...
Amyway you had Romeo in there on top of all that...too steep for me by a lot...

True, I did.  And you still do that trade and don't give it a second thought.  Some veteran role players and some unproven young players that can't stay healthy are absolutely worth CJ McCollum, which is why Portland wouldn't do that.

Sorry to drag this back, but here in this thread you are doubling down on Smart, Robert Williams, Romeo Langford and a first round pick or 2 for McCollum, saying you do that trade and "don't give it a second thought"

But I just noticed in the McCollum thread you proposed a three way deal in which the C's give up Smart, Thompson and Grant Williams and no picks, and get back McCollum and Looney, and you described that as a sound deal for all teams.

Do you see the disparity in your two posts about going after McCollum?

or do you see Thompson plus Grant Williams being equal to Robert Williams, Romeo and one or two first round picks?  I personally see that as a wide gap in assets.

one trade includes GS, one trade does not.  Different teams value things differently.

Not sure what this has to do with how much the Celtics give up for McCollum?

In one of your ideas, (IDEA A), the Celtics
A:  possess McCollum Robert Williams, Kevon Looney, Romeo Langford
B:  keep all their draft picks
C.  lose Smart, Thompson, G. Williams

In your other idea, (IDEA B),  the Celtics
A. possess McCollum, Thompson, GWill
B. lose one or two first round draft picks
C. lose Smart, Rob Williams and Romeo Langford

These are vastly different way to value McCollum imo.  When I criticized the second one (the non Golden State one), you responded that it was a no-brainer.  Meanwhile you described the other of these two examples as sound (I agree, idea A is sound enough).  Either you weren't being intellectually honest, or you're afraid to admit that you were just tossing out ideas without much thought (which is what I originally suggested may be the case and is of course fine). 

I'm only picking on this discrepancy because you sometimes throw things out as hard facts and certainty.  If you want to be someone people can look to for cold hard facts, then you should be intellectually honest. 

I will assume you ARE being intellectually honest, which implies that you
really feel that Rob Williams and Romeo are non-starters as NBA players, bad enough that you can add picks to them, and that Looney is no great shakes, and that Thompson and G will are quite valuable in trades.  These are the implications of viewing your two trade ideas for McCollum as equally doable, one being "sound" and the other (the worse one imo) a "no brainer" that you "don't think twice about".

I'd do either trade without giving either a 2nd thought, but trades involving different teams have different values.  What GS values is different than what other teams value i.e. the huge cap savings they get is worth a ton to them, and isn't worth as much to other teams.  That also holds true with players like Thompson and Smart who have far more value to GS than to a team like the Cavs.  That is one of the reasons multi-team trades are very rare, because it is hard to get the value right.

fair enough then...my own sense is that if McCollum gets traded it will be for much less than Smart, R. Will, Romeo and first rounders. 

And if McCollum is not traded, I'm guessing that over the course of this season you'll change your mind about that trade being a good one....hope so...and would love to revisit this one in the Fall sometime.  You gave up the farm for an expensive one way player, albeit a very good scorer.

I just don't think that is giving up the farm.  Smart is about to be paid and is even more 1 dimensional than McCollum and Smart's dimension is the one of lesser importance.  Langford and Williams can't stay healthy and while they've each shown some decent flashes they are far from being super useful players, Langford much less so given he is an awful offensive player to date.  A late 1st or two don't have a ton of real value.  If you can acquire McCollum without giving up Brown or Tatum, then you pretty much have to do it because while McCollum won't make Boston an elite contender, he could elevate Boston into that tier where with a break or two, they could at least make the finals, kind of like Phoenix this year.  And if Tatum really does jump up into the top 5 in the next couple of seasons, then McCollum is a much better 3rd option than anything currently on the team or likely to come from the draft picks the team has.