Suns vs Hawks: more impressive turnaround recently?

[Moranis]

Not stop the rebuild. Start the rebuild.

Start sooner. Give yourself a chance to put enough long term pieces around Melo to convince him to stay. Maybe you do, maybe you don't but you got a shot.

You have no shot down the Billups road.

How long do you think a rebuild takes, realistically?  To me, a rebuild takes at least 2-3 years, assuming you have very good luck.

The Nuggets had Carmelo under contract through the 2012 season (he signed a 5 year extension in 2006 which started in the 07-08 season).

If they had initiated a rebuild after the 08 season, rather than trading for Billups etc, they would have come out of that rebuild with a reinvigorated, younger team by ... 2011?  At which point they'd have one year left with Melo, and likely would have spent the previous 2-3 seasons being mediocre or worse.

Would that have enticed Melo to stay, do you think, rather than jumping ship to the Knicks?

Kinda seems to me like Melo wanted to be on the Knicks for a long time, and he was always going to end up there.  Denver did pretty well to get a WCF run, a handful of 50+ win seasons on top of that, and then a trade haul from New York when Melo finally left.


If they preferred a rebuild to a few years of pseudo-contention with Melo as their lead guy, they may as well have started shopping Melo in 2009 or 2010, when they could have gotten a huge haul for him.  Maybe they could have tried to trade him for a top 5 pick in one of those loaded drafts.

My guess is Denver (a small market team) was not looking to rebuild.  They were looking to be competitive and entertain their fans while they still had a very good player on board.

Impossible to say. It depends on how well you do it.

You could do a great job. Or you could do a terrible job. Or anywhere in between. How well you execute depends on the success or the failure of the plan.

How well do you use their draft picks? Do you pickup a Gordon Hayward or a Paul George with a late lotto pick in 2010? Or do you pick Aminu or Cole Aldrich? Do you find Klay Thompson in 2011?

How much cap space can you free up? Can you dump Kenyon along with Iverson? Can you rebuild around Melo and Nene. Melo would be one of the most respected and sought after teammates of that era. He would be a fantastic asset in attracting superstars to Denver.

Can Denver get in on the 2010 free agency class? Can they convince Amare to come over to play with Melo and Nene? Joe Johnson?

Do they instead hold their assets / flexibility and go all in on the trade market. Go after the next upset superstar who wants out. Deron Williams was available in 2011. Have they amassed enough young assets to get him? Deron & Melo would be a highly attractive duo to build around long term (obviously not knowing how much Deron would fall off in near future).

There was lots of opportunities. You cannot guarantee you will take advantage of those opportunities but you can put yourself in a position to have the chance to take advantage of them. You can clear cap room. You can get better draft picks. You can build up your trade assets by doing both of these things and get back into the trade market in the future.

These are all positive decisions to give yourself opportunities. It doesn't mean it'll work. It just means you have a chance.

But how do they rebuild with Melo on the roster and not a lot of worthwhile pieces to trade.

[Who]

Not stop the rebuild. Start the rebuild.

Start sooner. Give yourself a chance to put enough long term pieces around Melo to convince him to stay. Maybe you do, maybe you don't but you got a shot.

You have no shot down the Billups road.

How long do you think a rebuild takes, realistically?  To me, a rebuild takes at least 2-3 years, assuming you have very good luck.

The Nuggets had Carmelo under contract through the 2012 season (he signed a 5 year extension in 2006 which started in the 07-08 season).

If they had initiated a rebuild after the 08 season, rather than trading for Billups etc, they would have come out of that rebuild with a reinvigorated, younger team by ... 2011?  At which point they'd have one year left with Melo, and likely would have spent the previous 2-3 seasons being mediocre or worse.

Would that have enticed Melo to stay, do you think, rather than jumping ship to the Knicks?

Kinda seems to me like Melo wanted to be on the Knicks for a long time, and he was always going to end up there.  Denver did pretty well to get a WCF run, a handful of 50+ win seasons on top of that, and then a trade haul from New York when Melo finally left.


If they preferred a rebuild to a few years of pseudo-contention with Melo as their lead guy, they may as well have started shopping Melo in 2009 or 2010, when they could have gotten a huge haul for him.  Maybe they could have tried to trade him for a top 5 pick in one of those loaded drafts.

My guess is Denver (a small market team) was not looking to rebuild.  They were looking to be competitive and entertain their fans while they still had a very good player on board.

Impossible to say. It depends on how well you do it.

You could do a great job. Or you could do a terrible job. Or anywhere in between. How well you execute depends on the success or the failure of the plan.

How well do you use their draft picks? Do you pickup a Gordon Hayward or a Paul George with a late lotto pick in 2010? Or do you pick Aminu or Cole Aldrich? Do you find Klay Thompson in 2011?

How much cap space can you free up? Can you dump Kenyon along with Iverson? Can you rebuild around Melo and Nene. Melo would be one of the most respected and sought after teammates of that era. He would be a fantastic asset in attracting superstars to Denver.

Can Denver get in on the 2010 free agency class? Can they convince Amare to come over to play with Melo and Nene? Joe Johnson?

Do they instead hold their assets / flexibility and go all in on the trade market. Go after the next upset superstar who wants out. Deron Williams was available in 2011. Have they amassed enough young assets to get him? Deron & Melo would be a highly attractive duo to build around long term (obviously not knowing how much Deron would fall off in near future).

There was lots of opportunities. You cannot guarantee you will take advantage of those opportunities but you can put yourself in a position to have the chance to take advantage of them. You can clear cap room. You can get better draft picks. You can build up your trade assets by doing both of these things and get back into the trade market in the future.

These are all positive decisions to give yourself opportunities. It doesn't mean it'll work. It just means you have a chance.

But how do they rebuild with Melo on the roster and not a lot of worthwhile pieces to trade.

Dump all the pieces outside of Melo, Nene, & JR Smith (young pieces to build around). That will be a non-playoff team. It will free up cap space. It will create end of lotto draft picks. That will give opportunities to add talent via FA & Draft.

And will over time create additional new trade assets as those higher value picks and cap flexibility allow them to make more attractive trade package in future seasons. Not right away but in future seasons.

JR Smith and Nene may be included in trades for right opportunities also (larger trade packages or to free up extra cap space if needed).

[coco]

Recently as in the last 2months?  The Hawks by a mile