JT, JB, TL, and PP is our core. How to focus on them this year and beyond

[celts55]

I thought Grant rebounded well last night which was a first.   But any game where he is playing over 4-10 minutes is most likely going to be a loss.  It is absurd that he played 22 minutes given his season stats.  It is things like this lack of talent that kills our bench.   We are a top heavy team and the drop off in our talent is precipitous.  Thing is one would think it would l be easy upgrading our bench would not take as much assets.   But Ainge is in love with their guys seems to not realize that depth matters.  It is also demoralizing when you can play and you know when they take you out there is going to be a big time drop off.  There is a reason, Brown is hyping Rob and PP and not the other guys.   I hope DA makes a move because JB and JT could use some help.   Some of these guys have finite ceilings they are not going to improve that much.

 I don't know how anyone can think PP is part of core.   He has been a pleasant surprise but seems to have hit the rookie wall as noted above.    I honestly don't see much more than backup PG.  While I agree with your sentiment, I think he is a NBA player I am skeptical he is a star in the making.   I would like to see that and he is smart heady and can shoot.  I like him, I like his game but don't see him as part of our untouchable core.  He is way better than some of our other guards like Carsen or Tremont. He shoots better, makes better decision and is scrappy.

And Teague. Don't leave him out. He's way better than Teague

[Celtics2021]

The only ones who should be considered the core are Tatum and Brown.  They are All-Stars entering the primes of their careers with 4 and 3 seasons left on their contracts after this one.  I'm not saying everyone else will or should be moved, but those two are the core.  Time Lord has a lot of potential, but if he can bring back the right player, the Celtics would be foolish to not to consider it.  Smart is terrific at what he does, and I think is underappreciated by at least a vocal minority on this board, but he's only got one year left and could walk afterwards, so he's not the core any more.  Pritchard is nothing special -- he's a quality player, but one who is both replaceable and upgradable.  The only young player I'd truly be sorry about moving is Romeo, because I think he has worlds of potential and hasn't had the opportunity to show it due to injury, and trading him now would likely not fetch anything near what I think his value could be.

I do expect multiple moves in the next week, some of which will be designed to fix problems with this year's team, but others of which will be designed to better position us for the offseason.  The most important of those moves is trading Kemba for something of value, even if the value isn't huge.  We can use the Hayward TPE to take back the players we receive, assuming that they don't total more than $28.6 million, and get a brand new, $34.4 million TPE, which should be sufficient to fit in Beal this summer, or any other number of stars that may be on the market this offseason.

[Moranis]

I'm posting this over here too:

Brown and Tatum took 50 of the 88 shots the Celtics had. Smart and Grant Williams had 17 shots.  That's 67 of 88 shots. I'm posting this again because no other team in the league is freezing out the other players like this. Other teams give the ball to the hot hand. That's why some guy you never heard of is always lighting us up and none of our bench guys ever gets enough shots to ever go off. 67 0f 88 shots for 4 guys.

That's losing basketball.

PP and TL 9-11 shooting. Maybe they should get more shots.

Brown and Tatum should take 50 shots when Walker is out.

[GreenEnvy]

I’d like to try to improve the team without moving:

Tatum
Brown
Smart
Pritchard
R. Williams
Theis

Everyone else can go. Kemba would be the next hardest to trade because he’s such a likable guy and we know his upside. Thompson would be the easiest, I’d dump him for nothing.

This is close to my thinking but not as high on Theis as you are.  Theis is fine as a 4 with a bigger 5 next to him.  He clearly doesn't have the strength to hold his own in the low post which is why Ainge picked up Thompson.

I like Kemba a lot and always have going back to UConn.  Unfortunately, he gets burned frequently on defense, just not tall enough PG for my liking.  However, he's great a taking charges often at a key moment in the game.

I just like Theis as a glue guy who doesn’t need the ball to impact games, which we need with guys like Tatum and Brown. He can make a great defensive play, extend a possession with a tip out or offensive board, or knock down an open shot. All that on a cheap contract with a high character/IQ... every team needs a guy like that, no?

Obviously if he was the final piece to landing a big fish, you move him. But I wouldn’t dump him for a lateral change.

[RodyTur10]

I'm okay with trading Smart for the right guy. Smart should have a ton of trading value, while I'm not sure he's really worthy of a 20M+ contract (which he'll be offered).

Players who have more value with their potential than trading value are to me: Pritchard, Langford and also Robert Williams. So let's keep them. Maybe some team is still high on Nesmith? I'd listen to offers, but we need shooters so might as well develop them ourselves.

Can't see Walker or Thompson being part of the Celtics future, so we need to find destinations for them. I like Theis as back-up center. I'd only trade Theis now if management feels his offers in free agency will be beyond the comfortable zone to resign him.

I don't have any faith in Edwards or Grant Williams, trade them to any team that's willing to give up anything. Teague, Green and Ojeleye are on mininum contracts. Don't care about them either way.

Tatum and Brown have their issues, but obtaining young stars is not a sinecure. Especially star wings are a scarce commodity. Tatum and Brown are both easily in the top 7 of wings under 26.

[Neurotic Guy]

We may have an opportunity to add to the core with a top 10 draft pick if thinks continue as they are on the court.  In fact within the next week or so the C’s could be knocking on the door of top 10 with a good number of ping-ping balls providing a chance for a top 3. 

[keevsnick]

Ya I'm moving PP in a heart beat if it  brings back value. He's a nice role player, lets not overstate what he is at 23 years old.

Fans can't BOTH claim to hate the team then list seven guys as untouchable. Really its Tatum and Brown who are your core. Everything else is a piece.

[Celtics4ever]

We may have an opportunity to add to the core with a top 10 draft pick if thinks continue as they are on the court.  In fact within the next week or so the C’s could be knocking on the door of top 10 with a good number of ping-ping balls providing a chance for a top 3. 

Sadly, this is probably the best path given our assests are not too solid.

[BruceBanner18]

The only guy who's untouchable for me is Tatum.

I'd sell high on JB, Smart and Theis if I could take advantage of an apparently seller's market

I'm less inclined to think we'd get the value we'd need for our youngsters though...but adding PP or TL won't stop me from getting a top 10 guy when available

[NKY fan]

Ok this is probably reactionary but:
why don't we shut down the Js for 3-4 weeks and see how things go.
Brown is clearly injured and struggling
Tatum is exhausted and mentally drained
maybe they need some time off.
positives:
-We get to see what Stevens can do with the rest of the roster
-we get some idea of what the trade value of Romeo and Nesmith can be
-We may improve our draft position - pick in the 8-12 range can get us Collins in a S&T in the offseason
-the misfits and Romeo can do the Js what the Js did to 2 other allstars 3 years ago - make them expendable ( ok I got carried away here) but if they make the playoffs it will be a nice surprise
-We may be in a better position to pick our opponent in the first round ( target Philly lol)
Negatives:
-PP, RL, AN and TL way underperform and their ttrade value goes down (this only applies to PP and TL as the other have no trade value at the moment)
-missed on a deadline trade to make the team better
-
cant think of other negatives ... but the current state of the team is unbearable to watch and I don't think firing Stevens is the answer as he has proven himself during the last 8 years.

We need a change because it will be dumb to tank the trade value of the players we have and end up with pick 14 which Danny might waste again on another long term project role player.

[LilRip]

Ok this is probably reactionary but:
why don't we shut down the Js for 3-4 weeks and see how things go.
Brown is clearly injured and struggling
Tatum is exhausted and mentally drained
maybe they need some time off.
positives:
-We get to see what Stevens can do with the rest of the roster
-we get some idea of what the trade value of Romeo and Nesmith can be
-We may improve our draft position - pick in the 8-12 range can get us Collins in a S&T in the offseason
-the misfits and Romeo can do the Js what the Js did to 2 other allstars 3 years ago - make them expendable ( ok I got carried away here) but if they make the playoffs it will be a nice surprise
-We may be in a better position to pick our opponent in the first round ( target Philly lol)
Negatives:
-PP, RL, AN and TL way underperform and their ttrade value goes down (this only applies to PP and TL as the other have no trade value at the moment)
-missed on a deadline trade to make the team better
-
cant think of other negatives ... but the current state of the team is unbearable to watch and I don't think firing Stevens is the answer as he has proven himself during the last 8 years.

We need a change because it will be dumb to tank the trade value of the players we have and end up with pick 14 which Danny might waste again on another long term project role player.

If we shut down the J’s, we’d absolutely be tanking lol

Tatum does look exhausted out there though. Seems like his recovery from COVID hasn’t been kind to him

[NKY fan]

Ok this is probably reactionary but:
why don't we shut down the Js for 3-4 weeks and see how things go.
Brown is clearly injured and struggling
Tatum is exhausted and mentally drained
maybe they need some time off.
positives:
-We get to see what Stevens can do with the rest of the roster
-we get some idea of what the trade value of Romeo and Nesmith can be
-We may improve our draft position - pick in the 8-12 range can get us Collins in a S&T in the offseason
-the misfits and Romeo can do the Js what the Js did to 2 other allstars 3 years ago - make them expendable ( ok I got carried away here) but if they make the playoffs it will be a nice surprise
-We may be in a better position to pick our opponent in the first round ( target Philly lol)
Negatives:
-PP, RL, AN and TL way underperform and their ttrade value goes down (this only applies to PP and TL as the other have no trade value at the moment)
-missed on a deadline trade to make the team better
-
cant think of other negatives ... but the current state of the team is unbearable to watch and I don't think firing Stevens is the answer as he has proven himself during the last 8 years.

We need a change because it will be dumb to tank the trade value of the players we have and end up with pick 14 which Danny might waste again on another long term project role player.

If we shut down the J’s, we’d absolutely be tanking lol

Tatum does look exhausted out there though. Seems like his recovery from COVID hasn’t been kind to him

I’m not sure it’s covid or he’s mentally exhausted. I think he hates playing basketball everyday nowadays. Him and Brown might have some family issues or whatever Smart was alluding to.
But I do think that without the Js we can still finish 35-37 and sneak in the playoffs and make it competitive. I think relatively ok shooters like Semi, Grant, Nesmith and Theis will get 10-12 shots each and their averages % will be kicking in and we will be in games till the last few minutes. Right now is - Brad has those guys so irregularly that they can get to their shooting averages ... plus Romeo will be hungry to play too. lol don’t think it will be unrealistic for us to win 14-15 games without the Js

7-8 wins against teams that are tanking hard or are decimated by the Health and Safety protocols
2-3 wins where Semi and Theis and Smart shoot 70% from 3

And then the typical 4-5 wins where Brad completely takes the other team and coach by surprise and or smart out hustles everyone

[PAOBoston]

The core is JB/JT. Everyone else is expendable.

[Tr1boy]

Ok this is probably reactionary but:
why don't we shut down the Js for 3-4 weeks and see how things go.
Brown is clearly injured and struggling
Tatum is exhausted and mentally drained
maybe they need some time off.
positives:
-We get to see what Stevens can do with the rest of the roster
-we get some idea of what the trade value of Romeo and Nesmith can be
-We may improve our draft position - pick in the 8-12 range can get us Collins in a S&T in the offseason
-the misfits and Romeo can do the Js what the Js did to 2 other allstars 3 years ago - make them expendable ( ok I got carried away here) but if they make the playoffs it will be a nice surprise
-We may be in a better position to pick our opponent in the first round ( target Philly lol)
Negatives:
-PP, RL, AN and TL way underperform and their ttrade value goes down (this only applies to PP and TL as the other have no trade value at the moment)
-missed on a deadline trade to make the team better
-
cant think of other negatives ... but the current state of the team is unbearable to watch and I don't think firing Stevens is the answer as he has proven himself during the last 8 years.

We need a change because it will be dumb to tank the trade value of the players we have and end up with pick 14 which Danny might waste again on another long term project role player.

Not a bad idea

shut down Tatum, Walker and Smart for the rest of the season

Then trade one of Theis or Thompson. Trade Semi.  No point

Lineup post trade to assess value

Timelord
Nesmith
Brown
Langford
Pritchard

Theis
Gwilliams
Green
Edwards
Waters