Ainge on Toucher & Rich 3/11/21

[Celtics2021]

I'm ok with waiting till the summer. Let's make the most of it and see if our team can keep things going this season as underdogs.

The downside is that the value of the TPE is largely negated.  The one thing that we can offer right now that almost no other team can is immediate salary relief. In the summer, there will be all kinds of teams with salary cap space, meaning there are any number of teams that can offer what we can.

Teams will also try to take advantage of the fact that the clock is ticking on the TPE and if we don't use by the end of the offseason, we lose it.

I’ve seen this said, but I thought we got it for one year from the Hayward trade, which would be late November and perhaps after the start of next season.  Is there a Covid exception that shortens the TPE?

[Celtics2021]

I'm ok with waiting till the summer. Let's make the most of it and see if our team can keep things going this season as underdogs.

The downside is that the value of the TPE is largely negated.  The one thing that we can offer right now that almost no other team can is immediate salary relief. In the summer, there will be all kinds of teams with salary cap space, meaning there are any number of teams that can offer what we can.

I think only 4 teams are currently projected to have more cap space than our $28.5 million exception, so it should keep a lot of its power.

[RJ87]

I'm ok with waiting till the summer. Let's make the most of it and see if our team can keep things going this season as underdogs.

The downside is that the value of the TPE is largely negated.  The one thing that we can offer right now that almost no other team can is immediate salary relief. In the summer, there will be all kinds of teams with salary cap space, meaning there are any number of teams that can offer what we can.

Teams will also try to take advantage of the fact that the clock is ticking on the TPE and if we don't use by the end of the offseason, we lose it.

I’ve seen this said, but I thought we got it for one year from the Hayward trade, which would be late November and perhaps after the start of next season.  Is there a Covid exception that shortens the TPE?

I believe there will be a Covid exception where it'll expire at the end of the offseason.

[BruceBanner18]

Case in point, the kyrie trade was stupid if you weren't willing to make the follow up (which would mean parting with at least one of Brown/tatum). It would have been like trading for Ray Allen without following up with KG...useless and Ray would have been in Miami sooner if that had happened bc everyone knew he wanted to play on good vet teams.

The follow up trade was Anthony Davis. Then, chemistry fell apart.

Arguably acquiring Kyrie was the follow-up to signing Gordon Hayward coming off his All-Star season having just turned 27.

Is Horford = Pierce in that analogy? Gross. lol

[BruceBanner18]

Wouldn't ring so hollow if Ainge had actually pulled the trigger on legit top 5 (or even top 10) players when they've come available in the last few years.

There have been 3 Top 5 players available in recent years.

One was AD, who wasn't an option because Kyrie was on the roster and there's a rule that prevented AD and Kyrie from being on the team together that year.

Another was Kawhi, who was a 1-year rental. And although it worked out amazingly for Toronto, Danny decided it wasn't worth mortgaging the future (Tatum and Brown) for one year. We didn't have a Derozan type to trade.

The last is Harden, but again I think it comes down to not overpaying for guys that don't want to be here and who might not be better than Tatum or Brown in three years.

This narrative that Danny just needed to pull the trigger is wrong, imo. I think it's more complicated.

It is his statement about not making moves unless it changes the championship profile, that I was objecting to, because there were clearly moves that would have elevated Boston into the championship class that Ainge didn't pull the trigger on.  That is why I said it rang hollow because we've seen him not make those moves time and time again.  And you are correct, those are the 3 top 5ish players, but there have been a bunch of top 10ish players come available that Ainge has passed on as well (Butler, George come immediately to mind).  The one time he pulled the trigger he pulled it on the worst "superstar" that has come available and then didn't follow it up when he could have.

Ainge's lack of "the follow up trade" is as frustrating to me as a boxer throwing one punch instead of combinations.

Case in point, the kyrie trade was stupid if you weren't willing to make the follow up (which would mean parting with at least one of Brown/tatum). It would have been like trading for Ray Allen without following up with KG...useless and Ray would have been in Miami sooner if that had happened bc everyone knew he wanted to play on good vet teams.

Which seems analogous to kyrie seemingly changing his mind about boston mid-season and ultimately finding a situation/GM willing to trade youth and future for vet, superstar teammates today. IMO Ainge completely wiffed on that one...he had an obligation to trade the future for now after getting kyrie. More over it would have been better, for my opinion of him at least, if DA had traded brown and tatum for leonard (or whoever) and it NOT to have worked bc at least it would have been a realistic plan. Kyrie was never staying to play with the eastern futures team.. wasn't going to happen.

My fear is Ainge is making the mistake again. For my money, it seems vital in the next 18 months that the tpe and/or Kemba's salary slot get turned into either a legit top 5 player or 2 All star impact players...just like ones he appears to have hesitated on trading for recently. And when they come available, he needs to be prepared to pay a price of every draft pick this decade and all our young binkies. And we likely need to over pay... that's the price of entry. Otherwise, we're going to watch both Brown and Tatum get recruited away at the end of their contacts.

If the Celtics had gotten to the conference finals or finals with Kyrie and Hayward healthy in their first year in Boston, and then fallen short, the follow-up trade that summer would have made a ton of sense.  But, in fact, they made it to the conference finals with both of them out for the entire postseason and much/all of the regular season.  The hope/belief was that adding those two players to a conference finals team would in itself turn the Celtics into a title contender/winner.  Obviously that didn't happen, but it's not at all clear that a trade that summer would have produced a different outcome.

Right on...and that hope/belief was a change in direction which Kyrie (and maybe Horford/Hayward too, right?) didn't appreciate. Ainge's job is to know that was going to be an issue.

The success of Brown/Tatum should have only made a big trade easier.

[Bobshot]

Wouldn't ring so hollow if Ainge had actually pulled the trigger on legit top 5 (or even top 10) players when they've come available in the last few years.

The draft is no longer the key to a title. Teams like the Lakers and the Nets have opted for the fast fix: attracting a couple of superstars because they want to play there, and then using those stars as a lure to get veteran role players on the cheap. In that sense, the league has kind of slipped past Danny, who took years to get players like Tatum and Brown via the draft, and doesn't have much more to show for it.

The other thing that hurts the Celtics is the refusal to recognize their biggest need is for someone who can dominate the paint. Those type of players  (hello, Bill Russell) aren't effective on the perimeter because of their height and lack of agility vs smaller players. Some of the top NBA centers  are not noted for their perimeter play. Bill Russell never was. Neither was Wilt or Kareem or Shaq.

The game is still about getting the ball in the basket. And getting the best shot to do it.  That doesn't seem to be the priority for some teams. The 3P shot is way overdone.