Author Topic: Why Jaylen Brown is not getting traded this coming year  (Read 3202 times)

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Re: Why Jaylen Brown is not getting traded this coming year
« Reply #45 on: May 22, 2023, 02:10:45 PM »

Offline jpotter33

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So many of these seem like lateral moves (at best), lateral moves I'm not even sure either team would do. If you're so fed up with this team that you're fine with a lateral move then i get it, but I think that's significantly more likely to happen after Brown re-signs this off season, a year passes, and he's trade eligible again.

Like the coach was a rookie who didn't even have an off-season to implement his system. Your all defense center played like 30 games. Smart was clearly off/hurt all year, both Tatum and Brown had their worst 3 point shooting years of their career, and you are ultimately losing in the ECF's because the Heat are shooting 48% from three.

I don't know, clean some stuff up I think you can contend next year without too many changes. The team has to find a way to generate offense when threes aren't falling, and get back their defense first identity.

I think your trust in Joe to figure this out is much higher than the rest of us. I have no confidence whatsoever that even more time to implement his system would help. His system feels flawed and too reliant on jumpshooting for this team, let alone too focused away from defense.

Iím also to the point that I think the core of the Jays and Smart has run its course. Thereís just not enough ball-handling and playmaking there with JB being below average for a star and JT being average for a superstar level player. Iím fine with keeping the Jays together given the context of JBís contract and little ability to improve upon him, but you have to get a better playmaker/point guard to go with them. Think we have to package some players and upgrade there moving forward.

They were literally a 6 minutes stretch in the 4th quarter at home away from going up 3-1 on a dynasty warriors team.

I guess my thing is I'm a lot more reluctant than most people to go away from a formula that got that close. Winning the title is hard, there's a lot more downside to a change to the core than i think most people want to believe.

 I don't really believe is Joe, I'd would have kept the interim tag on him all year and seen how it plays out. But i don't think they are firing him after just one year so I'm not really sure there's much to be don e about that.

I mean, we still lost though - again in clutch time down the stretch. And itís all due to this lack of a true floor general that we can trust with the ball out there in clutch time.

At some point, seeing the same mistakes over and over and over again had to lead to some sort of change.
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Re: Why Jaylen Brown is not getting traded this coming year
« Reply #46 on: May 22, 2023, 02:22:57 PM »

Offline keevsnick

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So many of these seem like lateral moves (at best), lateral moves I'm not even sure either team would do. If you're so fed up with this team that you're fine with a lateral move then i get it, but I think that's significantly more likely to happen after Brown re-signs this off season, a year passes, and he's trade eligible again.

Like the coach was a rookie who didn't even have an off-season to implement his system. Your all defense center played like 30 games. Smart was clearly off/hurt all year, both Tatum and Brown had their worst 3 point shooting years of their career, and you are ultimately losing in the ECF's because the Heat are shooting 48% from three.

I don't know, clean some stuff up I think you can contend next year without too many changes. The team has to find a way to generate offense when threes aren't falling, and get back their defense first identity.

I think your trust in Joe to figure this out is much higher than the rest of us. I have no confidence whatsoever that even more time to implement his system would help. His system feels flawed and too reliant on jumpshooting for this team, let alone too focused away from defense.

Iím also to the point that I think the core of the Jays and Smart has run its course. Thereís just not enough ball-handling and playmaking there with JB being below average for a star and JT being average for a superstar level player. Iím fine with keeping the Jays together given the context of JBís contract and little ability to improve upon him, but you have to get a better playmaker/point guard to go with them. Think we have to package some players and upgrade there moving forward.

They were literally a 6 minutes stretch in the 4th quarter at home away from going up 3-1 on a dynasty warriors team.

I guess my thing is I'm a lot more reluctant than most people to go away from a formula that got that close. Winning the title is hard, there's a lot more downside to a change to the core than i think most people want to believe.

 I don't really believe is Joe, I'd would have kept the interim tag on him all year and seen how it plays out. But i don't think they are firing him after just one year so I'm not really sure there's much to be don e about that.

I mean, we still lost though - again in clutch time down the stretch. And itís all due to this lack of a true floor general that we can trust with the ball out there in clutch time.

At some point, seeing the same mistakes over and over and over again had to lead to some sort of change.

Maybe, but ultimately a different bounce here and there and we're talking about Tatum and Brown as untouchable franchise legends. Like, at some point, every result shy of a championship can't mean "blow it up." Because a vast majority of results will fall short of a title. The c's have won 1 once in like 35 years, its hard. i'd stick with the core that's gotten close. But I do get where you are coming from.

Also, i don't really think the issue this year is lack of a floor general. They are shooting under 30% from three, the Heat are shooting 48% from three. That's the series right there. Every Single Player craters from three simultaneously, and its cooked their confidence/rhythm.

Re: Why Jaylen Brown is not getting traded this coming year
« Reply #47 on: May 22, 2023, 02:24:31 PM »

Offline liam

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So many of these seem like lateral moves (at best), lateral moves I'm not even sure either team would do. If you're so fed up with this team that you're fine with a lateral move then i get it, but I think that's significantly more likely to happen after Brown re-signs this off season, a year passes, and he's trade eligible again.

Like the coach was a rookie who didn't even have an off-season to implement his system. Your all defense center played like 30 games. Smart was clearly off/hurt all year, both Tatum and Brown had their worst 3 point shooting years of their career, and you are ultimately losing in the ECF's because the Heat are shooting 48% from three.

I don't know, clean some stuff up I think you can contend next year without too many changes. The team has to find a way to generate offense when threes aren't falling, and get back their defense first identity.

I think your trust in Joe to figure this out is much higher than the rest of us. I have no confidence whatsoever that even more time to implement his system would help. His system feels flawed and too reliant on jumpshooting for this team, let alone too focused away from defense.

Iím also to the point that I think the core of the Jays and Smart has run its course. Thereís just not enough ball-handling and playmaking there with JB being below average for a star and JT being average for a superstar level player. Iím fine with keeping the Jays together given the context of JBís contract and little ability to improve upon him, but you have to get a better playmaker/point guard to go with them. Think we have to package some players and upgrade there moving forward.

They were literally a 6 minutes stretch in the 4th quarter at home away from going up 3-1 on a dynasty warriors team.

I guess my thing is I'm a lot more reluctant than most people to go away from a formula that got that close. Winning the title is hard, there's a lot more downside to a change to the core than i think most people want to believe.

 I don't really believe is Joe, I'd would have kept the interim tag on him all year and seen how it plays out. But i don't think they are firing him after just one year so I'm not really sure there's much to be don e about that.

I mean, we still lost though - again in clutch time down the stretch. And itís all due to this lack of a true floor general that we can trust with the ball out there in clutch time.

At some point, seeing the same mistakes over and over and over again had to lead to some sort of change.

Maybe, but ultimately a different bounce here and there and we're talking about Tatum and Brown as untouchable franchise legends. Like, at some point, every result shy of a championship can't mean "blow it up." Because a vast majority of results will fall short of a title. The c's have won 1 once in like 35 years, its hard. i'd stick with the core that's gotten close. But I do get where you are coming from.

Also, i don't really think the issue this year is lack of a floor general. They are shooting under 30% from three, the Heat are shooting 48% from three. That's the series right there. Every Single Player craters from three simultaneously, and its cooked their confidence/rhythm.

We have 3 40% 3 point shooters that can't get off the bench.

Re: Why Jaylen Brown is not getting traded this coming year
« Reply #48 on: May 22, 2023, 03:34:55 PM »

Offline boscel33

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Bill Simmons says, JB could also be dealt to the Blazers, but not for Dame.

ďIf they do decide to do a tweak, isnít Portland the logical destination. Portland is on a timetable with Dame, they got the number three pick in the draft. They seem a little bit desperate for a variety of reasons. Itís either trade Dame or keep Dame and try to make run.

Theyíve been open about saying we want to get a wing. And it just seems like thatís kind of a fit, if youíre the Celtics.Ē

ďLetís say itís number three and itís Simons and itís a future first and itís a swap, or maybe itís just number three and Simons, I donít know what Brownís value is.Ē

Another interesting thought.  Simons and the three.  Unfortunately, unless Charlotte wants Scoot, We're picking into our strength of PG so another shoe may have to fall.
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Re: Why Jaylen Brown is not getting traded this coming year
« Reply #49 on: May 22, 2023, 03:40:24 PM »

Offline Birdman

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Who would u get from Portland if not Dame? 3rd pick, Simons, Grant? Not good enough package
C/PF-Horford, Baynes, Noel, Theis, Morris,
SF/SG- Tatum, Brown, Hayward, Smart, Semi, Clark
PG- Irving, Rozier, Larkin

Re: Why Jaylen Brown is not getting traded this coming year
« Reply #50 on: May 22, 2023, 03:41:11 PM »

Offline blink

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So many of these seem like lateral moves (at best), lateral moves I'm not even sure either team would do. If you're so fed up with this team that you're fine with a lateral move then i get it, but I think that's significantly more likely to happen after Brown re-signs this off season, a year passes, and he's trade eligible again.

Like the coach was a rookie who didn't even have an off-season to implement his system. Your all defense center played like 30 games. Smart was clearly off/hurt all year, both Tatum and Brown had their worst 3 point shooting years of their career, and you are ultimately losing in the ECF's because the Heat are shooting 48% from three.

I don't know, clean some stuff up I think you can contend next year without too many changes. The team has to find a way to generate offense when threes aren't falling, and get back their defense first identity.

I think your trust in Joe to figure this out is much higher than the rest of us. I have no confidence whatsoever that even more time to implement his system would help. His system feels flawed and too reliant on jumpshooting for this team, let alone too focused away from defense.

Iím also to the point that I think the core of the Jays and Smart has run its course. Thereís just not enough ball-handling and playmaking there with JB being below average for a star and JT being average for a superstar level player. Iím fine with keeping the Jays together given the context of JBís contract and little ability to improve upon him, but you have to get a better playmaker/point guard to go with them. Think we have to package some players and upgrade there moving forward.

They were literally a 6 minutes stretch in the 4th quarter at home away from going up 3-1 on a dynasty warriors team.

I guess my thing is I'm a lot more reluctant than most people to go away from a formula that got that close. Winning the title is hard, there's a lot more downside to a change to the core than i think most people want to believe.

 I don't really believe is Joe, I'd would have kept the interim tag on him all year and seen how it plays out. But i don't think they are firing him after just one year so I'm not really sure there's much to be don e about that.

I mean, we still lost though - again in clutch time down the stretch. And itís all due to this lack of a true floor general that we can trust with the ball out there in clutch time.

At some point, seeing the same mistakes over and over and over again had to lead to some sort of change.

Maybe, but ultimately a different bounce here and there and we're talking about Tatum and Brown as untouchable franchise legends. Like, at some point, every result shy of a championship can't mean "blow it up." Because a vast majority of results will fall short of a title. The c's have won 1 once in like 35 years, its hard. i'd stick with the core that's gotten close. But I do get where you are coming from.

Also, i don't really think the issue this year is lack of a floor general. They are shooting under 30% from three, the Heat are shooting 48% from three. That's the series right there. Every Single Player craters from three simultaneously, and its cooked their confidence/rhythm.

The bolded is what I saw yesterday too.  Tatum, Brown, Brog, Al all seem to be having major confidence issues.  They are all good 3point shooters.  What the heck happened?

Re: Why Jaylen Brown is not getting traded this coming year
« Reply #51 on: May 22, 2023, 04:29:47 PM »

Offline jambr380

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Who would u get from Portland if not Dame? 3rd pick, Simons, Grant? Not good enough package

That's honestly a pretty good package. That 3rd pick could be huge - either as a player or trade asset. We were literally trying to get Grant like a year and a half ago and he and Simons are both more than capable scorers. I doubt POR gives up both Grant and Simons, though.

Re: Why Jaylen Brown is not getting traded this coming year
« Reply #52 on: May 22, 2023, 04:46:47 PM »

Offline Vermont Green

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I think the weakness in the roster is the lack of front court talent (PF/C).  We have an excess of guard talent with Smart, White, Brogdon, and Brown (Brown plays guard primarily due to Tatum being our primary SF).  We could trade Brown but that would only make sense to me if the result was a more balanced roster.  If we could get an all-star or all-NBA level big for Brown, that would make sense and balance the roster.  There are not that many options for that type of trade though.

We could also trade one of White, Smart, or Brogdon.  Any of these are not going to get back an all-star big but we should be able to get a reasonable, starting level big for one of them.

Barring a miraculous comeback in this series, I think there are going to be changes.  All the talk is that the players don't believe in Mazzulla.  I don't know if this is true but it certainly seems possible and aligns with how they are playing.  You can't let the inmates run the asylum but if the coach cannot command the respect of the players, that is a problem.  But I don't think changing the coach alone is enough.  Most of the good teams have a big as one of their top 2 players.  3 of the "final 4" have that; Jokic-Murray, LeBron-Davis, Butler-Adebayo. 

If you look at the All-NBA voting, we are not going to get Giannis or Embiid or Jokc in a trade but Sabonis and Randle are 3rd team.  Others getting all NBA votes are Markkanen, Siakam, J. Jackson, Davis, Adebayo, Lopez, and Porzingis.  I think this is the pool of targets.  Brown could certainly get us Sabonis or Randle.  Maybe even Towns (who did not get any all-NBA votes due to injuries but his is all-NBA talent in my opinion).  Smart or White plus something maybe gets us Siakam or Porzingis.  I think this is the type of move we need to make.

Re: Why Jaylen Brown is not getting traded this coming year
« Reply #53 on: May 22, 2023, 04:49:29 PM »

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Would you trade Jaylen for Darius Garland?

CLE gets to move away from their undersized defensively challenged backcourt. Fills that SF spot. Can look for a defensive guard to play alongside Donovan Mitchell.

BOS gets a true PG who can create off the bounce at a high rate. Garland can create for himself and for others. He can push the pace and give BOS tempo. He doesn't impede on Tatum too much. I feel Trae Young would. A similar type of player as Garland but even more ball dominant and even weaker defensively. I believe Garland would take a back-seat to Tatum easier.
I would. I also think Cleveland would, as Brown & Mitchell are very close.

Garland doesn't need too many shots, and has already shown a good ability to work as a #2 behind a shot-heavy #1 in Mitchell. He's really efficient, has worked on turning it over less, improves every season and would give us some desperately-needed dribble penetration.

If we did that, I think our team would operate really nicely. In an ideal world, I would also trade Smart for Wendell Carter Jr, and keep both Pritchard and Grant Williams.

Garland / Pritchard
White / Brogdon
Tatum / Hauser
Horford / Gallinari / Grant
Carter Jr. / Williams 3 / Muscala

I think that group would be fun, assuming we hired an NBA-level coach.

I wonder about D White in that new look team. Do the Cs really need a 2nd PG / combo guard next to Garland?

I see the appeal in having that 2nd PG next to a combo guard like Smart or Brogdon but less so with a true PG like Garland. Garland a far better ball-handler, far quicker, more creative, more ball-dominant. After Garland, Tatum will be the secondary ball-handler. There isn't much for D White to do in terms of adding to the team with ball-handling and some passing.

I would rather have a shooter there. A true shooter. Someone who will run off the run, run off screens, look for hand offs, always looking to hit outside shots. Someone who will stretch the floor. Keep the defense engaged off the ball.

That type of SG would be a better fit next to Tatum & Garland than a ball-handing combo guard like D White. So, I would look to trade D White if we landed Garland. Go for a true SG.

Re: Why Jaylen Brown is not getting traded this coming year
« Reply #54 on: May 22, 2023, 05:17:54 PM »

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Zach LaVine is the other guy I wonder about from time to time. I am not sure whether I would swap Jaylen for LaVine but there are some things I like about it.

Upside: LaVine is more of a pure shooter. He has shot 38-42% on threes for the last 4 years. He shot 48% from the field, 85% from the FT line. He has been above 60% TS% last three years. He is lethal both on and off the ball with his combination of quickness, driving ability and shooting ability. LaVine is a small upgrade in terms of passing but like Jaylen is not high in BBIQ.

Downside:
LaVine is not as big and strong as Jaylen is defensively. LaVine has improved his man defense a lot over the last couple of years but he is still smaller and less versatile than Jaylen. Both guys are dodgy team defenders. Jaylen is the superior rebounder by a big margin.

Chicago is looking to make a big change. Talk of them making their stars available. LaVine, DeRozan, Vucevic. So his availability is likely quite high. Particularly for someone like Jaylen.

Still, I do feel Jaylen is the better player. Not by much (I like LaVine) but better. So probably a no. I do wonder whether LaVine's shooting touch would make him a better fit as a #2 next to Tatum. Not a Klay Thompson but more Klay-like than Jaylen.

Re: Why Jaylen Brown is not getting traded this coming year
« Reply #55 on: May 22, 2023, 05:33:03 PM »

Offline gouki88

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Or he is traded for a player or players similarly situated.  Or a team takes the chance on re-signing him.  Or he indicates he happily go somewhere.  Or a team is looking to move on from a guy.  Players get traded all of the time with 1 year left. 

A couple of trades that in theory make sense and the value is reasonable

Brown, Smart for Siakam, Anunoby

Brown, Smart for Klay, Kuminga, Moody

Brown, Smart for Lillard

Brown for JJJ

Brown for Sabonis, Huerter

Brown, Rob, Gallinari for Ingram, Valanciunas, Murphy

If Houston signs Harden then something like Brown for Green makes a fair amount of sense

All of those make some level of sense for both teams.  I don't think Brown gets traded, but it also isn't out of the realm of possibility.
I would cry with joy at Brown & Smart for Siakam & OG, or for Dame. Would also probably do the Pels deal too

Okay, this is another good example. Why would TOR do this deal? I think brown is a little better than Siakam for sure, although OG is probably a little better than Smart. Lets say this deal makes Toronto slightly better. But whats that get them? They were a play in team this year, maybe this gets them back in the play in as a 7th or 8th seed? Great. That's not a situation Toronto is going to feel great about getting Jaylen to re-sign into.

And for the C's the big issue is the defacto-hard cap moving forward. So the solution to that is.... get even more expensive? You save a little money giving Siakam a 30% max vs the Jaylen 35% max, but then you have to pay OG who is likely going to make a good deal more than Smart. I find it hard to believe the C's would trade Brown for two guys on 1 year deals (super risky) rather than just offer him the super max. The financial stuff becomes an even bigger issue!

Again, if a team is going to trade for Jaylen with 1 year left on his deal it needs to be a team that is winning next year (so they can convince him to stay), ideally in a market he'd want to be in. They'd need to be comfortable enough with the deal that they'd be okay risking him leaving, which likely means the c's aren't getting enough back. That's the issue. 
Toronto was a .500 team because they had literally no big men until a last-minute acquisition of Poeltl. Their win-pace bumped up to 45 after that move. Add in Brown and Smart instead of Siakam and Anunoby, which will give them some balance and more shooting, and I think they jump up to a 48 win team. So, the 5th seed. If they make a good hiring choice and are able to get someone like Monty Williams, that could be even higher.

That is why.

Re: Why Jaylen Brown is not getting traded this coming year
« Reply #56 on: May 22, 2023, 05:34:53 PM »

Offline gouki88

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Would you trade Jaylen for Darius Garland?

CLE gets to move away from their undersized defensively challenged backcourt. Fills that SF spot. Can look for a defensive guard to play alongside Donovan Mitchell.

BOS gets a true PG who can create off the bounce at a high rate. Garland can create for himself and for others. He can push the pace and give BOS tempo. He doesn't impede on Tatum too much. I feel Trae Young would. A similar type of player as Garland but even more ball dominant and even weaker defensively. I believe Garland would take a back-seat to Tatum easier.
I would. I also think Cleveland would, as Brown & Mitchell are very close.

Garland doesn't need too many shots, and has already shown a good ability to work as a #2 behind a shot-heavy #1 in Mitchell. He's really efficient, has worked on turning it over less, improves every season and would give us some desperately-needed dribble penetration.

If we did that, I think our team would operate really nicely. In an ideal world, I would also trade Smart for Wendell Carter Jr, and keep both Pritchard and Grant Williams.

Garland / Pritchard
White / Brogdon
Tatum / Hauser
Horford / Gallinari / Grant
Carter Jr. / Williams 3 / Muscala

I think that group would be fun, assuming we hired an NBA-level coach.

I wonder about D White in that new look team. Do the Cs really need a 2nd PG / combo guard next to Garland?

I see the appeal in having that 2nd PG next to a combo guard like Smart or Brogdon but less so with a true PG like Garland. Garland a far better ball-handler, far quicker, more creative, more ball-dominant. After Garland, Tatum will be the secondary ball-handler. There isn't much for D White to do in terms of adding to the team with ball-handling and some passing.

I would rather have a shooter there. A true shooter. Someone who will run off the run, run off screens, look for hand offs, always looking to hit outside shots. Someone who will stretch the floor. Keep the defense engaged off the ball.

That type of SG would be a better fit next to Tatum & Garland than a ball-handing combo guard like D White. So, I would look to trade D White if we landed Garland. Go for a true SG.
I say we need the defence of White next to Garland if we ship Smart. White is an All-Defensive level guard who rebounds and passes. He also shot 38% from three on nearly 5 attempts a game - there aren't many who shoot better than that whilst playing strong defence.

Re: Why Jaylen Brown is not getting traded this coming year
« Reply #57 on: May 22, 2023, 05:35:25 PM »

Offline DrJasper

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Okay hear me out I know this sounds terrible at first, but I might try to trade brown for Beal and #8.

Our Lineup:

Brogdon/Smart
Beal/White
Tatum/?
Horford/Williams
Timelord/?

+ #8 and FAís

I think that could bring some much needed life into the team. Beal is like an older brother to Tatum and might be able to unlock his confidence like no one else could. He would also be much more motivated to play great after getting out from this terrible wizards team (sorry brownÖ).

Here is Beal in a game 7 against us: https://youtu.be/24ePZOgjong
He doesnít just quit, heís a baller!

We obviously need a new coach and have to think about what we do with #8, draft or trade for a Al horford succesor?
« Last Edit: May 22, 2023, 05:43:49 PM by DrJasper »
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SG: Temple, KCP, Holiday, Washburn
SF: Richardson, Anderson, Parsons, Casspi
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Re: Why Jaylen Brown is not getting traded this coming year
« Reply #58 on: May 22, 2023, 05:38:06 PM »

Offline gouki88

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Okay hear me out I know this sounds terrible at first, but I might try to trade brown for Beal and #8.

Our Lineup:

Brogdon/Smart
Beal/White
Tatum/?
Horford/Williams
Timelord/?

+ #8 and FAís

I think that could bring some much needed life into the team. Beal is like an older brother to Tatum and might be able to unlock his confidence like no one else could. He would also be much more motivated to play great after getting out from this terrible wizards team (sorry brownÖ).

Here is a Beal in a game 7 against us: https://youtu.be/24ePZOgjong
He doesnít just quit, heís a baller!

We obviously need a new coach and have to think about what we do with #8, draft or trade for a Al horford succesor?
Beal's contract would probably look like a bargain next to Brown's new one :P

I would be fine with this deal. Tatum gets to play with his best friend, and we can nab a Horford replacement in Taylor Hendricks at #8

Re: Why Jaylen Brown is not getting traded this coming year
« Reply #59 on: May 22, 2023, 05:47:55 PM »

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Okay hear me out I know this sounds terrible at first, but I might try to trade brown for Beal and #8.

Our Lineup:

Brogdon/Smart
Beal/White
Tatum/?
Horford/Williams
Timelord/?

+ #8 and FAís

I think that could bring some much needed life into the team. Beal is like an older brother to Tatum and might be able to unlock his confidence like no one else could. He would also be much more motivated to play great after getting out from this terrible wizards team (sorry brownÖ).

Here is a Beal in a game 7 against us: https://youtu.be/24ePZOgjong
He doesnít just quit, heís a baller!

We obviously need a new coach and have to think about what we do with #8, draft or trade for a Al horford succesor?

This is where I like D White as a starter. He gets to play PG instead of SG. He has a SG next to him who gives shot creation + playmaking in Beal.

Also, I like the quickness & the defense of D White at PG over Brogdon who is an offensive minded player. We do not need that offense in the starting lineup when Beal & Tatum are capable of carrying the load. Having a hole-plugger like D White would be more valuable.

So I'd go

G: D White, Brogdon
G: Beal, Smart
F: Tatum,
F: Horford
C: Rob Williams

I'd love to get Gradey Dick with that #8 pick. He looks a long term starting caliber SF. Speed, size and shooting ability. Good bet.

I'm not sure who else is there that may be available at #8 that is worth getting excited about. At first, I was against the trade if Dick wasn't available at #8 (or if not sold on someone else as an alternative). But even Beal for Jaylen in a straight swap has some sensability to it. It's interesting by itself. Even without the #8.

Trade Smart or Brogdon for a forward or a big man. Do not need all 3 combo guards plus Beal. One of those guys should go to rebalance the team elsewhere.