Author Topic: Fire Joe!  (Read 34180 times)

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Re: Fire Joe!
« Reply #915 on: May 26, 2023, 05:13:33 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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Spo is losing the series for Miami cause he's been terrible with his timeouts. He should be fired.

If something doesn't work 100% of the time, it's never worth trying, right?

Also, is Spo's rotation a mess?  Is his team sleepwalking during crucial games?  Blowing big leads because they're playing lazy?  Refusing to make adjustments?  Deemphasizing his team's strengths?

It cracks me up that Joe's defenders never seem to point out anything he has done well this season or in the playoffs. Instead, they just criticize the critics.  There's no affirmative argument that people have come up with to suggest that he is a good coach, where is the right coach for a contender.

Considering the deliberate misrepresentation (or earnest lack of reading comprehension) on display in the post you replied to, there’s not much point is there?

I think there is a point. If somebody thinks the guy is a good coach, point out why. Show some things that he has done well this year.  Maybe some actual discourse will educate open-minded fans.

I feel like the "Pro-Joe" squad mostly uses sarcasm and strawman arguments.


I'M THE SILVERBACK GORILLA IN THIS MOTHER——— AND DON'T NONE OF YA'LL EVER FORGET IT!@ 34 minutes

Re: Fire Joe!
« Reply #916 on: May 26, 2023, 06:15:31 PM »

Offline Kernewek

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Spo is losing the series for Miami cause he's been terrible with his timeouts. He should be fired.

If something doesn't work 100% of the time, it's never worth trying, right?

Also, is Spo's rotation a mess?  Is his team sleepwalking during crucial games?  Blowing big leads because they're playing lazy?  Refusing to make adjustments?  Deemphasizing his team's strengths?

It cracks me up that Joe's defenders never seem to point out anything he has done well this season or in the playoffs. Instead, they just criticize the critics.  There's no affirmative argument that people have come up with to suggest that he is a good coach, where is the right coach for a contender.

Considering the deliberate misrepresentation (or earnest lack of reading comprehension) on display in the post you replied to, there’s not much point is there?

I think there is a point. If somebody thinks the guy is a good coach, point out why. Show some things that he has done well this year.  Maybe some actual discourse will educate open-minded fans.

I feel like the "Pro-Joe" squad mostly uses sarcasm and strawman arguments.
Perhaps if we want to evaluate the use of strawman arguments I think painting posters who are asking for more meaningful critiques as posters who think he's a good coach is a pretty good place to start.
Man had always assumed that he was more intelligent than dolphins because he had achieved so much—the wheel, New York, wars and so on—whilst all the dolphins had ever done was muck about in the water having a good time.

But conversely, the dolphins had always believed that they were far more intelligent than man—for precisely the same reasons.

Re: Fire Joe!
« Reply #917 on: May 26, 2023, 07:11:08 PM »

Offline mobilija

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I'm not necessarily pro-Joe, he's clearly made plenty of mistakes. The biggest in my mind being his under utilization of RWill. However, I have pointed out many of his positives.

 First being the excellent start, maybe even the first 66% of season. The ball movement and off ball player movement was far and away better than anything we saw last year (particularly off ball). In fact, it appeared to be a direct adjustment to what lost us the championship.

In recent playoff games, I've pointed out some really nice end of game plays and sideline coaching. Some that come to mind. Creative ATO to get the ball to DW going to the hoop for what would have been series clinching win had Trey not hit ridiculous 30ft shot. Adjustment of Smart to get to the middle of floor for game clinching dishes and scores instead of the 3pt shots he gad been taking. Motioning Gwill in game time for great cuts for scores.

Most recently, the last two games. After game 3 when everyone was screaming as loud as possible for his head, people claimed he had lost the locker room. Clearly not the case, the players have responded, maybe even bc they want to save his job. Joe haters dead wrong on this one, clearly all those quotes that people thought were the players throwing Joe under the bus was creative reading between the lines.

Regarding TOs...I didn't mind the initial philospphy of letting players figure it out on the fly , its a clear weakeness of the team. He stuck with it too long and possibly stunted his own growth at managing the game.

He's not a wonder kid but he's also not an idiot. Too raw for the job, but he's learning and getting better.

Re: Fire Joe!
« Reply #918 on: May 26, 2023, 07:57:30 PM »

Offline Ed Monix

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I want to preface this post by saying this is no disrespect to the poor young girls he met, this is to highlight the odd correlation to the question.

5' 10" former point guard

Career highlight: 1973-74 championship, Boston Celtics

Career lowlight: traded for a washing machine

Re: Fire Joe!
« Reply #919 on: May 26, 2023, 08:04:48 PM »

Offline bricone29

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In all seriousness, why are we even discussing this now? Wait until they're eliminated or win the Championship.

Love him or hate him...he's not going over where during the playoffs. Can't we just save this talk for after when you'll have more points to make at the conclusion of the post season?

Re: Fire Joe!
« Reply #920 on: May 26, 2023, 08:10:00 PM »

Offline mobilija

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In all seriousness, why are we even discussing this now? Wait until they're eliminated or win the Championship.

Love him or hate him...he's not going over where during the playoffs. Can't we just save this talk for after when you'll have more points to make at the conclusion of the post season?


Good response....except it's after 62 pages of discussion

Edit: Sorry, didnt mean to be mean. Just kinda think this thread is past this stage. For what its worth, felt the same way 60 pagea ago. TP

Re: Fire Joe!
« Reply #921 on: May 26, 2023, 08:36:11 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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Spo is losing the series for Miami cause he's been terrible with his timeouts. He should be fired.

If something doesn't work 100% of the time, it's never worth trying, right?

Also, is Spo's rotation a mess?  Is his team sleepwalking during crucial games?  Blowing big leads because they're playing lazy?  Refusing to make adjustments?  Deemphasizing his team's strengths?

It cracks me up that Joe's defenders never seem to point out anything he has done well this season or in the playoffs. Instead, they just criticize the critics.  There's no affirmative argument that people have come up with to suggest that he is a good coach, where is the right coach for a contender.

Considering the deliberate misrepresentation (or earnest lack of reading comprehension) on display in the post you replied to, there’s not much point is there?

I think there is a point. If somebody thinks the guy is a good coach, point out why. Show some things that he has done well this year.  Maybe some actual discourse will educate open-minded fans.

I feel like the "Pro-Joe" squad mostly uses sarcasm and strawman arguments.
Perhaps if we want to evaluate the use of strawman arguments I think painting posters who are asking for more meaningful critiques as posters who think he's a good coach is a pretty good place to start.

That's what I'm supposed to glean from the sarcastic quip?  That after a 60 page thread pointing out a number of flaws -- failure to make adjustments, poor rotations, having his reserves unprepared, poor ATOs, a focus on outside shooting over shots closer to the basket, a de-emphasis on defense, a team that frequently seems unprepared and to lack focus and/or motivation, immature interactions with the media, a shouting match with the owner of the team, and yes, poor timeout usage -- there haven't been meaningful critiques?


I'M THE SILVERBACK GORILLA IN THIS MOTHER——— AND DON'T NONE OF YA'LL EVER FORGET IT!@ 34 minutes

Re: Fire Joe!
« Reply #922 on: May 26, 2023, 09:40:57 PM »

Online Yuckabuck33

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 a shouting match with the owner of the team
[/quote]
Whoah, I missed something. When was Joe in a shouting match with the owner? I can't find anything about this.

Re: Fire Joe!
« Reply #923 on: May 26, 2023, 10:09:21 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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a shouting match with the owner of the team
Whoah, I missed something. When was Joe in a shouting match with the owner? I can't find anything about this.

It was referenced on the radio and on twitter.  For instance:

https://twitter.com/CuiBonoCapital/status/1660696184250310656


I'M THE SILVERBACK GORILLA IN THIS MOTHER——— AND DON'T NONE OF YA'LL EVER FORGET IT!@ 34 minutes

Re: Fire Joe!
« Reply #924 on: May 26, 2023, 10:13:22 PM »

Offline ozgod

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a shouting match with the owner of the team
Whoah, I missed something. When was Joe in a shouting match with the owner? I can't find anything about this.

It was referenced on the radio and on twitter.  For instance:

https://twitter.com/CuiBonoCapital/status/1660696184250310656

Anyone know who CuiBono is? Is that a journalist's pseudonym?
Any odd typos are because I suck at typing on an iPhone :D

Re: Fire Joe!
« Reply #925 on: May 26, 2023, 10:14:10 PM »

Offline ozgod

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In all seriousness, why are we even discussing this now? Wait until they're eliminated or win the Championship.

Love him or hate him...he's not going over where during the playoffs. Can't we just save this talk for after when you'll have more points to make at the conclusion of the post season?

SparzWizard was really mad and not having a good night when he made this thread  :police:
Any odd typos are because I suck at typing on an iPhone :D

Re: Fire Joe!
« Reply #926 on: May 26, 2023, 10:28:07 PM »

Offline Goldstar88

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a shouting match with the owner of the team
Whoah, I missed something. When was Joe in a shouting match with the owner? I can't find anything about this.

It was referenced on the radio and on twitter.  For instance:

https://twitter.com/CuiBonoCapital/status/1660696184250310656

Anyone know who CuiBono is? Is that a journalist's pseudonym?

Yeah, that doesn’t seem too credible. Not seeing any video/audio of a shouting match. You’d think there would be a lot of other sites discussing it if it actually happened.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2023, 10:39:21 PM by Goldstar88 »
Quoting Nick from the now locked Ime thread:
Quote
At some point you have to blame the performance on the court on the players on the court. Every loss is not the coach's fault and every win isn't because of the players.

Re: Fire Joe!
« Reply #927 on: May 26, 2023, 10:41:35 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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Quote
a shouting match with the owner of the team
Whoah, I missed something. When was Joe in a shouting match with the owner? I can't find anything about this.

It was referenced on the radio and on twitter.  For instance:

https://twitter.com/CuiBonoCapital/status/1660696184250310656

Anyone know who CuiBono is? Is that a journalist's pseudonym?

Yeah, that doesn’t seem too credible. Not seeing any video/audio of a shouting match. You’d think there would be a lot of other sites discussing it if it actually happened.

NESN mentions it, too:

https://nesn.com/2023/05/celtics-management-reportedly-had-run-in-with-players-after-tough-game-3-loss/



I'M THE SILVERBACK GORILLA IN THIS MOTHER——— AND DON'T NONE OF YA'LL EVER FORGET IT!@ 34 minutes

Re: Fire Joe!
« Reply #928 on: May 26, 2023, 10:47:11 PM »

Online #1P4P

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Coach Mazzulla: “We have to keep our defensive presence, our defensive connectivity, and our defensive execution. When we do those things, that’s when we're at our best.”

This quote from Mazzulla brings a smile to my face. I’ve been asking for this exact change, recently.

This roster was built on defensive excellence and versatility, first and foremost. We’ve blossomed offensively especially in long range shooting in the last season and a half, but it shouldn’t be what we rely upon for success.

Pressuring Miami’s ball handlers, giving less space to role players for the catch and shoot, attacking Bam as soon as he puts the ball on the deck, and letting Jimmy go iso with no opening for playmaking have been game changers. We’ve won the last 4 games that we’ve held opponents under 100 points and that is the recipe for success.

Credit to Mazzulla for making a foundational overhaul so quickly.

Re: Fire Joe!
« Reply #929 on: May 27, 2023, 12:43:32 AM »

Offline Kuberski33

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a shouting match with the owner of the team
Whoah, I missed something. When was Joe in a shouting match with the owner? I can't find anything about this.

It was referenced on the radio and on twitter.  For instance:

https://twitter.com/CuiBonoCapital/status/1660696184250310656

Anyone know who CuiBono is? Is that a journalist's pseudonym?


Yeah, that doesn’t seem too credible. Not seeing any video/audio of a shouting match. You’d think there would be a lot of other sites discussing it if it actually happened.

NESN mentions it, too:

https://nesn.com/2023/05/celtics-management-reportedly-had-run-in-with-players-after-tough-game-3-loss/
If you read through all of that, Eddie House's comments are telling. He's the one guy on the local broadcast who calls it like he truly sees it - which means we likely won't see a whole lot of him moving forward. Keep in mind that years ago they canned Bob Cousy in part because he was too critical of the team.

Max's comments are worth paying attention to as well - keeping in mind that he is, I believe, a full time employee of the team where I don't think Eddie is.  Max probably had to temper what he said somewhat.  There's definitely some smoke here.

I think we're going to have a very compelling summer around here regardless of what happens in this series. The ball will very much be in Wyc's court.