Author Topic: Bruins sign prospect with racist past  (Read 19051 times)

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Re: Bruins sign prospect with racist past
« Reply #45 on: November 07, 2022, 07:09:28 PM »

Offline JSD

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If Miller was a black gang banger that beat someone bad during a robbery attempt at 15, pled down, did a short stint in juvy, at 21 should he be given a chance to become a NHL or NBA player if there is little to no public evidence of contrition, maturation, or change of heart/attitude?

Do you think the Celtics should give that kid a chance if he was a baller?

If he acknowledged wrong doing and has been good since? Yes, I mean heck, when Marcus Smart was around the same age as Miller, he threw rocks at people’s heads for fun.
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Re: Bruins sign prospect with racist past
« Reply #46 on: November 07, 2022, 08:13:00 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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If Miller was a black gang banger that beat someone bad during a robbery attempt at 15, pled down, did a short stint in juvy, at 21 should he be given a chance to become a NHL or NBA player if there is little to no public evidence of contrition, maturation, or change of heart/attitude?

Do you think the Celtics should give that kid a chance if he was a baller?

If he acknowledged wrong doing and has been good since? Yes, I mean heck, when Marcus Smart was around the same age as Miller, he threw rocks at people’s heads for fun.
Here's the thing, as I said, if there is no real evidence of contrition or attitudinal change, I'm not so sure. There are conflicting stories of Miller's apologies and no one really coming out defending him, meaning people that have associated with him. Not one teacher, coach, fellow player, people associated with teams he has been on. No one at Arizona or UND. So how are we to know if he has actually changed.

You seem to be rushing to his defense but you don't know anymore about the kid than I do. Is it because you hate cancel culture or believe in criminal rehabilitation and 2nd chances? It's only been 6 years and erasing deep grained racism and a bullying attitude in that time frame during teenage years isn't normal. It's fairly rare.

It's why I said earlier that a deep investigation into the kid since his conviction was necessary including interviews with his parents, coaches, teachers, guidance counselors and having him do a psych eval would probably have been the right move before signing him, as his recent comments regarding contrition, change and maturation coming only after major interest was shown at him can be looked at as just lip service.

People shouldn't suffer forever based on bad behavior as a child, with a few exceptions like murder and aggravated rape and pedophilia of a small child, but after just 6 years and still being only 20, I would want definitive proof of change in the young man before giving him a 2nd chance and I don't think there is definitive evidence of that here....yet.

Re: Bruins sign prospect with racist past
« Reply #47 on: November 08, 2022, 05:19:10 AM »

Offline JSD

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If Miller was a black gang banger that beat someone bad during a robbery attempt at 15, pled down, did a short stint in juvy, at 21 should he be given a chance to become a NHL or NBA player if there is little to no public evidence of contrition, maturation, or change of heart/attitude?

Do you think the Celtics should give that kid a chance if he was a baller?

If he acknowledged wrong doing and has been good since? Yes, I mean heck, when Marcus Smart was around the same age as Miller, he threw rocks at people’s heads for fun.
Here's the thing, as I said, if there is no real evidence of contrition or attitudinal change, I'm not so sure. There are conflicting stories of Miller's apologies and no one really coming out defending him, meaning people that have associated with him. Not one teacher, coach, fellow player, people associated with teams he has been on. No one at Arizona or UND. So how are we to know if he has actually changed.

You seem to be rushing to his defense but you don't know anymore about the kid than I do. Is it because you hate cancel culture or believe in criminal rehabilitation and 2nd chances? It's only been 6 years and erasing deep grained racism and a bullying attitude in that time frame during teenage years isn't normal. It's fairly rare.

It's why I said earlier that a deep investigation into the kid since his conviction was necessary including interviews with his parents, coaches, teachers, guidance counselors and having him do a psych eval would probably have been the right move before signing him, as his recent comments regarding contrition, change and maturation coming only after major interest was shown at him can be looked at as just lip service.

People shouldn't suffer forever based on bad behavior as a child, with a few exceptions like murder and aggravated rape and pedophilia of a small child, but after just 6 years and still being only 20, I would want definitive proof of change in the young man before giving him a 2nd chance and I don't think there is definitive evidence of that here....yet.

I actually agree with pretty much everything you said, especially the last paragraph regarding what's unforgivable. I do believe in second chances, generally, if they don't involve serious physical harm. I guess when it comes down to it I believe the Bruins did do some real digging into this kid and determined he had come a long way to being a better person, they would be irresponsible not to. The Bruins moved on only after the over-the-top backlash kept alive and fueled by the victim's adoptive mother, Joni Meyer-Crothers.

Joni Meyer-Crothers is an author and professional couponer, you can catch her on various YouTube videos about that, or she is giving an interview about Mitchell. She doesn't appear to be shy about getting her name out there.

Anyone want to hear my theory on what's going on here? Ha!
« Last Edit: November 08, 2022, 05:28:25 AM by JSD »
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Re: Bruins sign prospect with racist past
« Reply #48 on: November 08, 2022, 05:37:56 AM »

Offline Kernewek

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I feel reasonably confident that, adoptive parent or not, this woman would much rather not have had this guy terrorize the absolute crap out of her son.

I am also confident that when the players on the team go on the record saying that, based on what they know about this guy, signing him is a bad idea, that it might be a bad idea. As I said earlier, when the GM announces a signing with an apology, it's probably not a strong indication that they "did some real digging" as an organisation.


As an aside:
I also think that a lot of the time, people who are upset about 'cancel culture' get accused of not being aware of consequences. I don't think that's 100% fair, because it implies that the people who said or did the offensive thing or those who support them aren't aware of the offense.

I think most people who advocate against 'cancel culture' absolutely grasp the idea of consequences for speech and behaviour.

They just don't think that the behaviour whichever 'victim of the woke mob' of the day got in trouble for qualifies as being deserving of the consequences.

I don't think you're doing that, JSD, but I do think it's something to think about in this case.
Man had always assumed that he was more intelligent than dolphins because he had achieved so much—the wheel, New York, wars and so on—whilst all the dolphins had ever done was muck about in the water having a good time.

But conversely, the dolphins had always believed that they were far more intelligent than man—for precisely the same reasons.

Re: Bruins sign prospect with racist past
« Reply #49 on: November 08, 2022, 07:28:12 AM »

Offline JSD

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Quote
Miller’s agent posted a statement to Twitter
In a statement posted to Twitter on Sunday, Eustace King, Miller’s agent, said: “The decision to take on Mitchell Miller as a client was not one that 02K Sports Management made lightly.

“As one of the very few Black NHL agents in the league, a member of the NHL’s Diversity and Inclusion Committee, and as a Black man who has spent his entire life in hockey, I understand the gravity of the situation and respect the fierce emotions and reactions to the initial reporting and commentary around Mr. Miller’s past behavior.

O2K Sports Management would not have agreed to represent Mitchell without months of research, deliberation, introspection within our organization, and conversations with outside advisors.

“Moreover, when deliberating whether to represent Mitchell, we learned throughout the last six years, Mitchell has been volunteering with organizations such as: Spread the Word Campaign, Little Miracles, Adaptive Sports of Ohio, Gliding Stars.”

https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/07/sport/boston-bruins-president-apologizes-for-signing-mitchell-miller-spt-intl/index.html

Miller's agent chimes in
The only color that matters is GREEN

Re: Bruins sign prospect with racist past
« Reply #50 on: November 08, 2022, 07:40:33 AM »

Online Roy H.

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Quote
Miller’s agent posted a statement to Twitter
In a statement posted to Twitter on Sunday, Eustace King, Miller’s agent, said: “The decision to take on Mitchell Miller as a client was not one that 02K Sports Management made lightly.

“As one of the very few Black NHL agents in the league, a member of the NHL’s Diversity and Inclusion Committee, and as a Black man who has spent his entire life in hockey, I understand the gravity of the situation and respect the fierce emotions and reactions to the initial reporting and commentary around Mr. Miller’s past behavior.

O2K Sports Management would not have agreed to represent Mitchell without months of research, deliberation, introspection within our organization, and conversations with outside advisors.

“Moreover, when deliberating whether to represent Mitchell, we learned throughout the last six years, Mitchell has been volunteering with organizations such as: Spread the Word Campaign, Little Miracles, Adaptive Sports of Ohio, Gliding Stars.”

https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/07/sport/boston-bruins-president-apologizes-for-signing-mitchell-miller-spt-intl/index.html

Miller's agent chimes in

The agent probably did a poor job here in getting that information out.  And, he should have been advising his client to enter therapy, to reach out to the family, to offer the victim some sort of restitution, etc.  I mean, I can't speak for a sports agent, but as a defense attorney stuff like that was pretty much standard operating procedure.  You have to make your client look as good as possible, so that the DA as something to hang their hat on.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2022, 07:51:55 AM by Roy H. »


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Re: Bruins sign prospect with racist past
« Reply #51 on: November 08, 2022, 07:43:03 AM »

Offline Kernewek

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Not sure if everyone has seen the facts that surround the relevant parts of the agent's statement, but in case you haven't, defector's got a pretty good summary:

Quote
The Bruins also referred to their belief that Mitchell had taken “meaningful action to reform” himself. Where might they have gotten that idea? I don’t know for certain, but on Sunday Miller’s agent, Eustace King of O2K, put out a statement touting all the volunteer work Miller had done to improve himself and prove that he is a changed person. The statement was, to put it plainly, a disaster.

• One of the organizations mentioned is owned by an O2K executive, and “focus[es] on player development and mentorship for O2K athletes.”

• Another organization was one Miller spent time with only as part of his court-ordered volunteer work.

• A third, which King claimed Miller had “met with and committed to working with,” put out its own statement saying that it had only been approached to consider working with Miller, but that it had not done so.

• The executive director of a fourth nonprofit cited in the agent’s statement said that it had invited Miller to work with it, but he had not actually responded, let alone volunteered. “But our names were good enough for the press release,” she noted.
https://defector.com/mitchell-miller-the-boston-bruins-did-everything-wrong/

So, yes, I'm sure Eustace King would rather get paid for representing Mitchell. But, again, it doesn't really look like his client is making much effort to actually do anything that would help Mr. King get his percentage.
Man had always assumed that he was more intelligent than dolphins because he had achieved so much—the wheel, New York, wars and so on—whilst all the dolphins had ever done was muck about in the water having a good time.

But conversely, the dolphins had always believed that they were far more intelligent than man—for precisely the same reasons.

Re: Bruins sign prospect with racist past
« Reply #52 on: December 17, 2022, 03:13:57 PM »

Offline GreenlyGreeny

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Let’s give violent offenders, including murderers, a second chance after the violence/death they committed as adults, but god forbid we give someone a second chance after they bullied someone at age 14? Does everybody really not see how illogical such a position is?

Lock up adults for crimes and don’t give them third chances ever. People are sick of costs going up and one contributing factor is how most nobody is holding shoplifters accountable any longer. If someone shoplifts, they should be caught and arrested. If they are caught doing it a second time, it should be made abundantly clear that a third time is life in prison. That will end this shoplifting crisis that is contributing to rising prices. And while we speak of prison reform, here’s another common sense idea: The lowest living quality of free people in our society ought to be better than life for anybody in prison anywhere. In other words, it’s time to make prisons less comfortable for criminals, so those funds can be reallocated towards helping the working poor who play by the rules live in a more comfortable environment.

In contrast, after a a decade or so, it’s time to forgive and forget what any kid did when they were barely older than a pre-teen, particularly if they’ve not done anything horrid since.

Repeat offenders who are adults do not deserve more than a second chance. Kids deserve a second chance. If there’s evidence this dude is a racist as an adult, let’s hear it. It’s madness to hold something he did at 14 against him for his entire life.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2022, 03:30:18 PM by GreenlyGreeny »

Re: Bruins sign prospect with racist past
« Reply #53 on: December 17, 2022, 03:24:45 PM »

Offline GreenlyGreeny

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As an aside:
I also think that a lot of the time, people who are upset about 'cancel culture' get accused of not being aware of consequences. I don't think that's 100% fair, because it implies that the people who said or did the offensive thing or those who support them aren't aware of the offense.

I think most people who advocate against 'cancel culture' absolutely grasp the idea of consequences for speech and behaviour.

They just don't think that the behaviour whichever 'victim of the woke mob' of the day got in trouble for qualifies as being deserving of the consequences.

I don't think you're doing that, JSD, but I do think it's something to think about in this case.

Well said. Mobs almost always over-react and go too far. Frankly, mobs are uncivilized and have no place in the modern world. Leave that crap to the still uncivilized areas of the world instead of trying to be like them in a virtual environment. That’s what the common sense anti-cancel culture types, folks like Bill Maher and yours truly, are trying to say. And another thing that is uncivilized: Letting those in power permanently banish someone for not toeing party lines. That’s something out of the Soviet Union or Nazi Germany. We do it better than that in America.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2022, 03:35:36 PM by GreenlyGreeny »

Re: Bruins sign prospect with racist past
« Reply #54 on: December 17, 2022, 04:56:08 PM »

Offline gouki88

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As an aside:
I also think that a lot of the time, people who are upset about 'cancel culture' get accused of not being aware of consequences. I don't think that's 100% fair, because it implies that the people who said or did the offensive thing or those who support them aren't aware of the offense.

I think most people who advocate against 'cancel culture' absolutely grasp the idea of consequences for speech and behaviour.

They just don't think that the behaviour whichever 'victim of the woke mob' of the day got in trouble for qualifies as being deserving of the consequences.

I don't think you're doing that, JSD, but I do think it's something to think about in this case.

Well said. Mobs almost always over-react and go too far. Frankly, mobs are uncivilized and have no place in the modern world. Leave that crap to the still uncivilized areas of the world instead of trying to be like them in a virtual environment. That’s what the common sense anti-cancel culture types, folks like Bill Maher and yours truly, are trying to say. And another thing that is uncivilized: Letting those in power permanently banish someone for not toeing party lines. That’s something out of the Soviet Union or Nazi Germany. We do it better than that in America.
Bill Maher and common sense do not belong in the same sentence, unless the phrase "complete lack of" is involved.
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Re: Bruins sign prospect with racist past
« Reply #55 on: December 17, 2022, 07:09:40 PM »

Offline MarcusSmartFanClub

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As an aside:
I also think that a lot of the time, people who are upset about 'cancel culture' get accused of not being aware of consequences. I don't think that's 100% fair, because it implies that the people who said or did the offensive thing or those who support them aren't aware of the offense.

I think most people who advocate against 'cancel culture' absolutely grasp the idea of consequences for speech and behaviour.

They just don't think that the behaviour whichever 'victim of the woke mob' of the day got in trouble for qualifies as being deserving of the consequences.

I don't think you're doing that, JSD, but I do think it's something to think about in this case.

Well said. Mobs almost always over-react and go too far. Frankly, mobs are uncivilized and have no place in the modern world. Leave that crap to the still uncivilized areas of the world instead of trying to be like them in a virtual environment. That’s what the common sense anti-cancel culture types, folks like Bill Maher and yours truly, are trying to say. And another thing that is uncivilized: Letting those in power permanently banish someone for not toeing party lines. That’s something out of the Soviet Union or Nazi Germany. We do it better than that in America.
Bill Maher and common sense do not belong in the same sentence, unless the phrase "complete lack of" is involved.

Agree. Maher sucks.

Some comedians rely on crossing the line. Others have figured out how to be funny without being offensive. Some like Andrew Dice Clay, while others are into Seinfeld. Shock comedy isn’t going away. I think it has gotten worse since the 90s when Jerry was killing it.

Re: sports- I still think $ runs the show. If Meyers Leonard or this hockey player were good enough to move the needle for a franchise, they would be making that money. Not so much if they are just another guy.