Author Topic: Lebron extends with LAL  (Read 6403 times)

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Re: Lebron extends with LAL
« Reply #45 on: August 19, 2022, 01:52:00 PM »

Online Roy H.

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I am not sure I have ever seen a team with two top 10 players (LeBron, AD) with such a pathetic roster around them.

It amazes me that LeBron would hand-over his future, his remaining elite NBA years, to a team this dysfunctional / badly run.

Yeah, this is why I'm not assuming that those 2027 and 2029 draft picks will be late firsts.  The team really has been run incompetently.  The argument that things have been run well during the Jeanie Buss years doesn't make sense to me.  They took a team that won a title, and have followed that up with about the two worst off-seasons possible.  And people forget, but they dodged a bullet when Dennis Schroder turned down an $80+ million contract that the team offered.

The Lakers won a title in 2019-20 with James and Davis and not much else.  The big difference was that they played 67 nd 62 games respectively.  The problems since then are more about the durability of James and Davis than it is about the talent around them or the coach (although all are factors of course).

If they can keep James and Davis on the court (something that probably isn't going to happen), even with Westbrook and whatever as the supporting cast, I think they are going to be better than a lot of people expect.  I don't see them winning a title again as there are several tough teams in the West now but I think they can be good.  LAL made a big bet on James staying healthy so we shall see.

I agree that any team with two top-10 players is formidable, no matter how crappy the rest of the roster is.

But, that's different than suggesting that current management is competent.  They've been about as poor as possible in terms of surrounding Lebron and Davis with talent.

In 2020, their supporting cast was:  KCP, Kuzma, Bradley, Green, Howard, Rondo, McGee, THT, Caruso and Morris

In 2021, it was Schroder, Harrell, Kuzma, Drummond, KCP, THT, Caruso, Gasol, Matthews, McLemore, Morris

That's arguably an upgrade in talent, although chemistry and health were problems.

In 2022, they had:  Westbrook, Monk, Carmelo, Reaves, Ellington, Bazemore, D12, THT, Nunn and later Jordan, Augustin

That was an abject failure, showing no sense of appreciation for depth, chemistry or fit.

This year, they're rolling out: Westbrook, THT, Nunn, Bryant, Reaves and a whole bunch of mediocre-to-bad players.

It's just an absolutely garbage roster outside of Lebron and AD.  I'm not sure how anybody can look at the past two off-seasons and feel confident about Lakers management.  And that's without getting into the what ifs regarding Derozan wanting to be there and them passing on him; choosing Westbrook over Hield; management offering Schroder $80 million, etc.

I am not arguing in favor of the Lakers management.  They made the decision to bring in LeBron and more or less let him call the shots.  Now they have all their cap space tied up in two great but oft injured players.  Even if they are able to move Westbrook, that is still going to be the reality of the team.  They will live and die on the health of two players who haven't had a great durability track record lately.

But if they do somehow stay healthy, I think they will contend, and if they contend, suddenly the narrative around the front office will change.  Back when they got LeBron and Davis and won a championship, the narrative was that the Lakers always get what they want because they are LA.  They were savvy and able to attract ring chaser vets.  After two disappointing season, mostly the result of the health of Davis and LeBron in my opinion, now the front office doesn't seem so savvy.  It is the nature of the business.

Bottom line though is that LAL management made the decision to hitch their wagon to LeBron.  Then they decided to trade all their young players for Davis.  The result is 1 championship and a couple of really disappointing seasons.  Not what they were hoping for I am sure.  But what collection of role players they put around their big two isn't all that impactful relative to the foundation they built by having James and Davis, in my opinion.  Management will look really smart of James and Davis stay healthy and really dumb if they don't.  The truth is somewhere in the middle.
I disagree with a lot of this.  not the health part, that is obviously critical, but with a better more thought out supporting cast last year, I don't think they miss the playoffs.  And it isn't hard to see the sort of team they could have had.

I mean just going for DeRozan instead of Westbrook would have changed a lot because the cost for DeRozan wasn't even as high (they would have been able to keep KCP most likely).  I mean how much different are the Lakers last year with KCP and DeRozan instead of Westbrook.  Now let's say they keep Caruso, Schroder, Matthews.  Maybe they still land Monk, Dwight, and Carmelo

are you telling me that even if Davis and James still missed as much as they did, this team wouldn't have made the playoffs last year

PG - Schroder, Caruso, Reaves
SG - KCP, THT, Matthews
SF - DeRozan, Monk
PF - James, Anthony
C - Davis, Howard

And that still leaves 3 roster spots for guys like Bradley, Jordan, Rondo, Johnson, Bazemore, Ellington, etc.

That team would have been much better suited to withstand injuries to James and Davis, and frankly wouldn't have required them to carry quite the load such that maybe they don't miss quite as many games as they did. 

The Lakers lucked into Lebron, which allowed Davis to reasonably as to go there, but they did a terrible job last summer.  Even if they still acquired Westbrook, there was no reason to just let Caruso and Schroder walk out the door.  They needed guys like that on mid-tier salaries if for no other reason to allow the ability to trade for other players, but also because they are actually good players that they let leave for nothing.  Teams trying to contend can't waste assets like that and the Lakers wasted those assets.

Would that team have fit under the hard cap?


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Re: Lebron extends with LAL
« Reply #46 on: August 19, 2022, 02:52:39 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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I don’t think that anyone can be serious when they argue getting AD and Lebron isn’t an improvement of giving massive contracts to mosgov and cooked deng. I don’t think Jeanie is amazing, but it is night and day from Jim buss.

Re: Lebron extends with LAL
« Reply #47 on: August 19, 2022, 03:19:33 PM »

Online Vermont Green

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are you telling me that even if Davis and James still missed as much as they did, this team wouldn't have made the playoffs last year

PG - Schroder, Caruso, Reaves
SG - KCP, THT, Matthews
SF - DeRozan, Monk
PF - James, Anthony
C - Davis, Howard

And that still leaves 3 roster spots for guys like Bradley, Jordan, Rondo, Johnson, Bazemore, Ellington, etc.

That team would have been much better suited to withstand injuries to James and Davis, and frankly wouldn't have required them to carry quite the load such that maybe they don't miss quite as many games as they did. 

The Lakers lucked into Lebron, which allowed Davis to reasonably as to go there, but they did a terrible job last summer.  Even if they still acquired Westbrook, there was no reason to just let Caruso and Schroder walk out the door.  They needed guys like that on mid-tier salaries if for no other reason to allow the ability to trade for other players, but also because they are actually good players that they let leave for nothing.  Teams trying to contend can't waste assets like that and the Lakers wasted those assets.

Would that team have fit under the hard cap?

DeRozan would have been better than Westbrook.  No argument there.  If LAL management (or LeBron) thought Westbrook was a better answer than DeRozan, they clearly thought wrong.  That is one move you can add to the category of impactful or missed opportunity.  But no, I don't think the Lakers go anywhere with LeBron and Davis injured as much as they were.

And with DeRozan, that would have been a sign and trade, hard capping the Lakers as Roy eludes to.  I think the Lakers ended up $20,000,000 over the hard cap.  DeRozan's contract was less than Westbrook by about $17M but it is hard to say exactly how things would have panned out.  What would they have had to give up for DeRozan vs. what they gave up for Westbrook.

Re: Lebron extends with LAL
« Reply #48 on: August 19, 2022, 03:28:51 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Ask why are people acting like Schroeder is a big loss? We were better without and he remains a free agent in august looking at a minimum deal. He recently begged Lebron on Instagram to go back to lakers.

Re: Lebron extends with LAL
« Reply #49 on: August 30, 2022, 03:59:47 PM »

Offline Moranis

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Re: Lebron extends with LAL
« Reply #50 on: August 30, 2022, 04:15:12 PM »

Online Birdman

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Ask why are people acting like Schroeder is a big loss? We were better without and he remains a free agent in august looking at a minimum deal. He recently begged Lebron on Instagram to go back to lakers.
Went to the finals without him
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Re: Lebron extends with LAL
« Reply #51 on: August 30, 2022, 04:24:24 PM »

Offline Kernewek

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Ask why are people acting like Schroeder is a big loss? We were better without and he remains a free agent in august looking at a minimum deal. He recently begged Lebron on Instagram to go back to lakers.

People like players who score. There was a healthy contingent of posters who swore up and down Schroeder was a better fit for our team than White, which still boggles my mind.
Man had always assumed that he was more intelligent than dolphins because he had achieved so much—the wheel, New York, wars and so on—whilst all the dolphins had ever done was muck about in the water having a good time.

But conversely, the dolphins had always believed that they were far more intelligent than man—for precisely the same reasons.

Re: Lebron extends with LAL
« Reply #52 on: August 30, 2022, 04:38:09 PM »

Offline GetLucky

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Ask why are people acting like Schroeder is a big loss? We were better without and he remains a free agent in august looking at a minimum deal. He recently begged Lebron on Instagram to go back to lakers.

People like players who score. There was a healthy contingent of posters who swore up and down Schroeder was a better fit for our team than White, which still boggles my mind.

Agreed. I'd argue that Schroeder was the single biggest reason for the team's underperformance until he left. He gave me flashbacks to the worst moments of Terry and Marcus Morris, every game, especially when the team had a lead of more than a few baskets.   

Re: Lebron extends with LAL
« Reply #53 on: August 30, 2022, 04:50:37 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Ask why are people acting like Schroeder is a big loss? We were better without and he remains a free agent in august looking at a minimum deal. He recently begged Lebron on Instagram to go back to lakers.

People like players who score. There was a healthy contingent of posters who swore up and down Schroeder was a better fit for our team than White, which still boggles my mind.

Agreed. I'd argue that Schroeder was the single biggest reason for the team's underperformance until he left. He gave me flashbacks to the worst moments of Terry and Marcus Morris, every game, especially when the team had a lead of more than a few baskets.

The league seems to have caught on. The other players that are high profile that are still unsigned all seem to be significantly older (Howard, rondo, melo, cousins, Walker, whiteside). Only similar age guy is Harrell but he has some legal issues

Re: Lebron extends with LAL
« Reply #54 on: August 30, 2022, 05:07:37 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Thought this one interesting from the article Lebron talks about playing with his sons:

 One successful AAU director I speak to, who asks not to be named, for fear of getting on LeBron’s bad side, worries about Bronny’s size, based on the common assumption that, at 17, he is done growing. “I think he’s a good player, but I was at the NBA combine last year and maybe two or three guys were under 6' 3", and they had 45-inch verticals and Olympic speed. At [his] size, to get to the NBA is going to be very, very difficult.”

He pauses. “But LeBron is a very powerful person. Who knows what he can pull off?”

If bronny really doesn’t grow anymore and is not actually an nba player will Lebron force him to be in the league anyways? That would seem awkward for everyone involved.

Re: Lebron extends with LAL
« Reply #55 on: August 30, 2022, 05:55:53 PM »

Offline Kernewek

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Thought this one interesting from the article Lebron talks about playing with his sons:

 One successful AAU director I speak to, who asks not to be named, for fear of getting on LeBron’s bad side, worries about Bronny’s size, based on the common assumption that, at 17, he is done growing. “I think he’s a good player, but I was at the NBA combine last year and maybe two or three guys were under 6' 3", and they had 45-inch verticals and Olympic speed. At [his] size, to get to the NBA is going to be very, very difficult.”

He pauses. “But LeBron is a very powerful person. Who knows what he can pull off?”

If bronny really doesn’t grow anymore and is not actually an nba player will Lebron force him to be in the league anyways? That would seem awkward for everyone involved.

I think it gets pretty difficult to define where “force” begins and “NBA GM takes a second round flyer on Bronny to get a season of ticket sales out of signing LeBron to a one year deal” ends.

Man had always assumed that he was more intelligent than dolphins because he had achieved so much—the wheel, New York, wars and so on—whilst all the dolphins had ever done was muck about in the water having a good time.

But conversely, the dolphins had always believed that they were far more intelligent than man—for precisely the same reasons.

Re: Lebron extends with LAL
« Reply #56 on: August 30, 2022, 06:08:25 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Thought this one interesting from the article Lebron talks about playing with his sons:

 One successful AAU director I speak to, who asks not to be named, for fear of getting on LeBron’s bad side, worries about Bronny’s size, based on the common assumption that, at 17, he is done growing. “I think he’s a good player, but I was at the NBA combine last year and maybe two or three guys were under 6' 3", and they had 45-inch verticals and Olympic speed. At [his] size, to get to the NBA is going to be very, very difficult.”

He pauses. “But LeBron is a very powerful person. Who knows what he can pull off?”

If bronny really doesn’t grow anymore and is not actually an nba player will Lebron force him to be in the league anyways? That would seem awkward for everyone involved.

I think it gets pretty difficult to define where “force” begins and “NBA GM takes a second round flyer on Bronny to get a season of ticket sales out of signing LeBron to a one year deal” ends.

Well that would get even weirder because Lebron wants to play with his son not have him just sit on the bench.

Re: Lebron extends with LAL
« Reply #57 on: August 30, 2022, 08:37:42 PM »

Offline Moranis

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ESPN just moved Bronny up 5 spots to the 35th ranked player in the class. Said he improved significantly in consistency and shooting.
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Re: Lebron extends with LAL
« Reply #58 on: August 30, 2022, 09:04:35 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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ESPN just moved Bronny up 5 spots to the 35th ranked player in the class. Said he improved significantly in consistency and shooting.

He has moved up and down 5-8 spots a number of times. Here is an article form February when he was ranked 34 talking about his pro prospects. I think the biggest thing is that a lot of people were hoping/thinking he may grow some more but he seems to have topped out at 6’2. https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/10027671-bronny-james-would-be-best-served-playing-2-3-years-in-college-talent-evaluator-says.amp.html

Re: Lebron extends with LAL
« Reply #59 on: August 30, 2022, 10:49:57 PM »

Offline Celtics2021

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Thought this one interesting from the article Lebron talks about playing with his sons:

 One successful AAU director I speak to, who asks not to be named, for fear of getting on LeBron’s bad side, worries about Bronny’s size, based on the common assumption that, at 17, he is done growing. “I think he’s a good player, but I was at the NBA combine last year and maybe two or three guys were under 6' 3", and they had 45-inch verticals and Olympic speed. At [his] size, to get to the NBA is going to be very, very difficult.”

He pauses. “But LeBron is a very powerful person. Who knows what he can pull off?”

If bronny really doesn’t grow anymore and is not actually an nba player will Lebron force him to be in the league anyways? That would seem awkward for everyone involved.

I think it gets pretty difficult to define where “force” begins and “NBA GM takes a second round flyer on Bronny to get a season of ticket sales out of signing LeBron to a one year deal” ends.

I think a lot of teams would spend a first on Bronny to get a year out of LeBron, especially at a potential not-max contract rate.  The only question is how high of a first.