Author Topic: "Equal pay" in soccer  (Read 6907 times)

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Re: "Equal pay" in soccer
« Reply #30 on: May 19, 2022, 03:26:09 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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Don't know much about soccer....

Does the USMNT make $ from FIFA if they don't qualify for the World Cup? Wouldn't that seem like a socialist, profit sharing model?

I get capitalism and pay for performance. I'm wondering why the U.S. men make so much money when they aren't participating. Why is this something to protect?

The World Cup isnít the only revenue driver.  The menís World Cup just happens to be far the biggest money maker.


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Re: "Equal pay" in soccer
« Reply #31 on: May 19, 2022, 04:08:28 PM »

Offline MarcusSmartFanClub

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I guess Iím lost. Why does it make sense for the men to make $ if they donít make the World Cup? Isnít that like a AAA player not making the big show, yet getting compensated as if they did?

What is the Menís case for making more $ if theyíre not attracting eyeballs?

Re: "Equal pay" in soccer
« Reply #32 on: May 19, 2022, 05:22:57 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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I guess Iím lost. Why does it make sense for the men to make $ if they donít make the World Cup? Isnít that like a AAA player not making the big show, yet getting compensated as if they did?

What is the Menís case for making more $ if theyíre not attracting eyeballs?

Whatís your conception of what soccer players do when theyíre not playing in the World Cup?


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Re: "Equal pay" in soccer
« Reply #33 on: May 19, 2022, 05:25:24 PM »

Offline MarcusSmartFanClub

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Playing for club teams that pay them. Or watching the World Cup.

I guess I donít see outrage over male players making less when they donít make it to the biggest stage in other events, such as the G league, XFL, Korn Ferry, etc
« Last Edit: May 19, 2022, 05:35:44 PM by MarcusSmartFanClub »

Re: "Equal pay" in soccer
« Reply #34 on: May 19, 2022, 05:38:11 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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Playing for club teams that pay them. Or watching the World Cup.

I guess I donít see outrage over male players making less when they donít make it to the biggest stage in other events, such as the G league, XFL, Korn Ferry, etc

Do you think the national team only plays games every four years?


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Re: "Equal pay" in soccer
« Reply #35 on: May 19, 2022, 05:40:44 PM »

Offline MarcusSmartFanClub

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Yes they do, but the ratings are less (less $). Any other brain busters, or are you making a point with your questions?

I donít think this is a debate in countries that have equally talented teams. Brazil women will likely never make the $ of the men. This one stands out as the US men have been borderline embarrassing (loved that Lalas rant from years ago).

Re: "Equal pay" in soccer
« Reply #36 on: May 19, 2022, 05:43:05 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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Yes they do, but the ratings are less (less $). Any other brain busters, or are you making a point with your questions?

The point is you are, indeed, confused:

I guess Iím lost. Why does it make sense for the men to make $ if they donít make the World Cup? Isnít that like a AAA player not making the big show, yet getting compensated as if they did?

What is the Menís case for making more $ if theyíre not attracting eyeballs?


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Re: "Equal pay" in soccer
« Reply #37 on: May 19, 2022, 05:45:44 PM »

Offline MarcusSmartFanClub

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Yes they do, but the ratings are less (less $). Any other brain busters, or are you making a point with your questions?

The point is you are, indeed, confused:

I guess Iím lost. Why does it make sense for the men to make $ if they donít make the World Cup? Isnít that like a AAA player not making the big show, yet getting compensated as if they did?

What is the Menís case for making more $ if theyíre not attracting eyeballs?

Is your point that they are making a ton of $ from qualifiers vs small Caribbean nations? From what I understood, these are lowly rated events.

Iím confused why someone is looking to defend this one, esp considering how the men have played/attracted eyeballs. Iíve def caught more womens events over the last 12 years.

Edit: To clarify, I'm confused what logic is used to support your "point" (or a series of questions). USWNT>USMNT. In a free market (tough to say that FIFA is abiding by this), wouldn't the more popular team with higher ratings generate more $? The men haven't made the World Cup in a bit, yet have been getting paid as if they have. The women have been crushing it and have been complaining about low, unequal pay. Based on performance and higher ratings, it seems like the women have a logical case.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2022, 06:24:26 PM by MarcusSmartFanClub »

Re: "Equal pay" in soccer
« Reply #38 on: May 19, 2022, 11:03:27 PM »

Online Moranis

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Yes they do, but the ratings are less (less $). Any other brain busters, or are you making a point with your questions?

The point is you are, indeed, confused:

I guess Iím lost. Why does it make sense for the men to make $ if they donít make the World Cup? Isnít that like a AAA player not making the big show, yet getting compensated as if they did?

What is the Menís case for making more $ if theyíre not attracting eyeballs?

Is your point that they are making a ton of $ from qualifiers vs small Caribbean nations? From what I understood, these are lowly rated events.

Iím confused why someone is looking to defend this one, esp considering how the men have played/attracted eyeballs. Iíve def caught more womens events over the last 12 years.

Edit: To clarify, I'm confused what logic is used to support your "point" (or a series of questions). USWNT>USMNT. In a free market (tough to say that FIFA is abiding by this), wouldn't the more popular team with higher ratings generate more $? The men haven't made the World Cup in a bit, yet have been getting paid as if they have. The women have been crushing it and have been complaining about low, unequal pay. Based on performance and higher ratings, it seems like the women have a logical case.
The last Men's World Cup, FIFA paid out 400 million in total compensation to the competing teams.  France, who won, was paid 38 million.  The last Women's World Cup the total payout was 30 million, of which the US, who won, was paid 4 million dollars.  So the Men's champion made more money than the entire Women's tournament.  In fact, all 32 countries that made the Men's World Cup were paid at least 8 million dollars.  So just by making the World Cup, the Men's team will basically double what the Women's teams makes if they win (and if they don't win it is much less).  Getting out of the Group Stage and into the top 16, was worth another 4 million (12 million total).  Another 4 million for the quarters (16 million total).  The 3rd place team got 24 million total while 4th was 22 million, and the runner-up got 28 million. 

The 2022 World Cup money has been increased to 440 million.  The 2023 World Cup (the next Women's tourney) hasn't been set, but there has been talk of doubling that to 60 million.  The dollars just aren't comparable.  It really isn't much different than saying the WNBA and NBA revenues should be pooled together and split evenly.  It just doesn't make financial long term sense.  Sports are about money.  If you don't make money, you shouldn't be paid like you do.
I was finally wrong. Boston not only didn't win in 5, but didn't win at all.

Re: "Equal pay" in soccer
« Reply #39 on: May 20, 2022, 12:13:10 AM »

Offline Kuberski33

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I think the argument that the women are world class while the men stink is kind of BS. #1 you're talking about soccer/football being the world's #1 sport. Your top men's players are coming out of a much, much larger talent pool - Brazil, Argentina, England, Spain, Germany, Italy, France, Africa etc - these countries all feed the top leagues and you have to be a special talent to make it to Juventus, Real Madrid, Barcelona etc.

The US leads the world in women's rights and certainly opportunity to play sports.  They should dominate the women's game.  But their players are also getting picked from a much, much smaller talent pool. This is slowly changing but the road to being considered a top women's player is a heck of a lot shorter and easier to navigate and than it is for the men's game. Most of the top women's players are white, middle class and had lots of help and support (financial & otherwise) from mom/dad (and/or US Soccer) in getting to the top of their sport.

Most of the top men's talent comes from the poor and working class areas of the countries I mentioned, they got identified at a young age, and emerge from a huge population of players. The best ones get routed to the top European teams (brokered by agents), but even the ones left over wind up playing for their domestic pro teams and are good players in their own rights.

Certainly most of US men don't have to face that, but they still have to beat those players out to play for their professional clubs.  It's just a completely different ballgame that women have to deal with in order to get to the top.

The US men had a talent drought for about 10 years but that's changing. They've finally got some real talent, though most of their good players are young.  But as talented as they are, they're going up against teams at World Cup with NBA all star level linups .  They'll get that vs England in the upcomig World Cup. Every player in their starting 11 is a superstar. Same with Germany, same with Spain, same with Brazil and Argentina.

You can't compare the men's and women's games talent wise. There just aren't a lot of great women's teams - or women's players - worldwide right now.

Anyone who makes the argument that the US Women are better players than the men doesn't understand much about soccer. The women have been more successful - the same way Villanova is more successful than say the Indiana Pacers. But which team has more talented players?


Re: "Equal pay" in soccer
« Reply #40 on: May 20, 2022, 12:32:26 AM »

Offline nickagneta

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Lots of consternation over the women getting equal pay but the men on the USMNT voted for this. If they have no issues with it and support it, why such problems?

I mean, do you people really have issues with women getting equal pay as men when the men involved in giving up the money so the women get equal pay don't have such issues?

I don't get it.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2022, 01:41:36 AM by nickagneta »

Re: "Equal pay" in soccer
« Reply #41 on: May 20, 2022, 06:27:58 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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Lots of consternation over the women getting equal pay but the men on the USMNT voted for this. If they have no issues with it and support it, why such problems?

I mean, do you people really have issues with women getting equal pay as men when the men involved in giving up the money so the women get equal pay don't have such issues?

I don't get it.

I donít have an issue with it.   If they voted for it, itís their choice.

I just donít understand why they voted for it.  As mentioned above, people generally arenít that altruistic with their own money.  Itís why itís rare for professional athletes to take less money so that their team can sign additional players.


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Re: "Equal pay" in soccer
« Reply #42 on: May 20, 2022, 08:39:05 AM »

Online Moranis

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Lots of consternation over the women getting equal pay but the men on the USMNT voted for this. If they have no issues with it and support it, why such problems?

I mean, do you people really have issues with women getting equal pay as men when the men involved in giving up the money so the women get equal pay don't have such issues?

I don't get it.

I donít have an issue with it.   If they voted for it, itís their choice.

I just donít understand why they voted for it.  As mentioned above, people generally arenít that altruistic with their own money.  Itís why itís rare for professional athletes to take less money so that their team can sign additional players.
And it doesn't seems like a sustainable model, which may very well cause more issues down the line. 
I was finally wrong. Boston not only didn't win in 5, but didn't win at all.

Re: "Equal pay" in soccer
« Reply #43 on: May 20, 2022, 08:46:39 AM »

Offline MarcusSmartFanClub

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So we're concerned about the sustainability of U.S. men's soccer pay in international soccer?

402,024,204 things to get worked up about in this world. This might be near the last.

btw- We've been told that U.S. soccer is finally here for about 30 years. Clint Dempsey, Landon Donovan, Freddy Adu, Cobi Jones, Alexi Lalas, etc, etc. They've all been chronic underachievers. That or they weren't that good. Either way, really weird place to plant one's flag.

Re: "Equal pay" in soccer
« Reply #44 on: May 20, 2022, 09:10:47 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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btw- We've been told that U.S. soccer is finally here for about 30 years. Clint Dempsey, Landon Donovan, Freddy Adu, Cobi Jones, Alexi Lalas, etc, etc. They've all been chronic underachievers.

I mean, Team USA (men's) is ranked 15th in the world, and we've been in the top-10 in the last year.  Their all-time best ranking was 4th in the world.  We've got an established domestic league.  Soccer has surpassed the NHL in viewership.  So, the team itself probably is "here". 


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