Author Topic: NBC Boston: The Celtics Ideal Starting Lineup  (Read 2462 times)

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NBC Boston: The Celtics Ideal Starting Lineup
« on: October 18, 2021, 03:15:14 PM »

Offline Ed Monix

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https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/celtics/celtics-starting-lineup-what-are-ime-udokas-best-options

The Celtics' starting five on opening night should look like this:

PG   MARCUS SMART
SG   JOSH RICHARDSON
SF   JAYLEN BROWN
PF   JAYSON TATUM
C     ROBERT WILLIAMS III

The C's boast a 113.7 offensive rating and a 112.1 defensive rating with this unit, per the Optimal Lineup tool. That's a higher offensive rating with Richardson than if Horford, Schroder or Nesmith was paired with the Smart/Brown/Tatum/Williams core.

While Boston could have a slightly better defensive rating with Schroder (111.1), Horford (111.2) or Nesmith (111.2) on the floor, Richardson has a reputation as a strong defender who can guard multiple positions.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2021, 03:20:29 PM by Ed Monix »
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Re: NBC Boston: The Celtics Ideal Starting Lineup
« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2021, 03:26:04 PM »

Offline Jvalin

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Talent-wise

PG: Schroder
SG: Smart
SF: Brown
PF: Tatum
C: Horford

Fit-wise (in terms of maximizing the impact of the Jays)

PG: Pritchard/Smart
SG: Brown
SF: Nesmith
PF: Tatum
C: Horford

Re: NBC Boston: The Celtics Ideal Starting Lineup
« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2021, 03:28:56 PM »

Online Roy H.

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Quote
PG: Schroder
SG: Smart
SF: Brown
PF: Tatum
C: Horford

This.


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Re: NBC Boston: The Celtics Ideal Starting Lineup
« Reply #3 on: October 18, 2021, 03:29:28 PM »

Online Roy H.

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https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/celtics/celtics-starting-lineup-what-are-ime-udokas-best-options

The Celtics' starting five on opening night should look like this:

PG   MARCUS SMART
SG   JOSH RICHARDSON
SF   JAYLEN BROWN
PF   JAYSON TATUM
C     ROBERT WILLIAMS III

The C's boast a 113.7 offensive rating and a 112.1 defensive rating with this unit, per the Optimal Lineup tool. That's a higher offensive rating with Richardson than if Horford, Schroder or Nesmith was paired with the Smart/Brown/Tatum/Williams core.

While Boston could have a slightly better defensive rating with Schroder (111.1), Horford (111.2) or Nesmith (111.2) on the floor, Richardson has a reputation as a strong defender who can guard multiple positions.

This tool is useless.


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Re: NBC Boston: The Celtics Ideal Starting Lineup
« Reply #4 on: October 18, 2021, 03:40:05 PM »

Online Celtics2021

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https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/celtics/celtics-starting-lineup-what-are-ime-udokas-best-options

The Celtics' starting five on opening night should look like this:

PG   MARCUS SMART
SG   JOSH RICHARDSON
SF   JAYLEN BROWN
PF   JAYSON TATUM
C     ROBERT WILLIAMS III

The C's boast a 113.7 offensive rating and a 112.1 defensive rating with this unit, per the Optimal Lineup tool. That's a higher offensive rating with Richardson than if Horford, Schroder or Nesmith was paired with the Smart/Brown/Tatum/Williams core.

While Boston could have a slightly better defensive rating with Schroder (111.1), Horford (111.2) or Nesmith (111.2) on the floor, Richardson has a reputation as a strong defender who can guard multiple positions.

This tool is useless.

Seriously.  It just plugs together offensive and defensive ratings of players from last year, which, of course, are highly dependent on the players they shared the court with, and offers no context as to how the players themselves fit together.  For instance, if I sub out Jayson Tatum for Enes Kanter, I get a 114.7/112.7 rating, which is better than the proposed lineup.

Re: NBC Boston: The Celtics Ideal Starting Lineup
« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2021, 03:41:59 PM »

Online Moranis

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Using the tool, you get the same difference of 1.6 if the roster is Schroder, Smart, Richardson, Tatum, Williams  (swapping Pritchard for Schroder gets you 1.7)

but the best lineup in that with a difference of 2.0 is Schroder, Smart, Brown, Tatum, Williams

So it seems strange they say what the optimal lineup is, but then don't actually have the optimal lineup. 

All that said, is I would start Horford instead of Williams.  I think that makes the most sense and will hopefully allow Williams to stay healthier.
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Re: NBC Boston: The Celtics Ideal Starting Lineup
« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2021, 03:42:08 PM »

Online Vermont Green

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https://hoopshabit.com/2021/10/15/boston-celtics-double-bigs-lineup/

This article has the following starting line up.  They think Horford and Williams are fine together (not sure I agree) and have based this on conversation with Coach Ime.

Smart
Brown
Tatum
Horford
RWilliams

Others agreed:  https://hardwoodhoudini.com/2021/10/01/boston-celtics-supersized-lineup/

I come up with different conclusions when I think about what I think they should do vs. what I think they will do.  I think they are going to try the Horford RWilliams starting line up.  If Horford can be successful as the PF or second big, that is great for our flexibility and our utilization of talent.  I hope it does work.  If it does, our depth chart looks like this:

Smart           Schroder           Pritchard
Brown           Richardson        Langford
Tatum           Nesmith            (2-way fill in)
Horford         Hernangomez    GWilliams
RWilliams      Kanter               Fernando

If that works, and we can get some time with Horford as the PF, that is great.  Maybe he plays some at C also in either a 1 big or conventional 2 big line up.  I am just not so sure it is going to work.  We can't play the whole game with a 1 big line up though so we are going to have to play our second tier bigs (JHern, GWill, EKant) sometimes.  The more we can play Al at PF, the less we have to play these other options.  I think that is the theory anyway.


Re: NBC Boston: The Celtics Ideal Starting Lineup
« Reply #7 on: October 18, 2021, 05:28:06 PM »

Online Goldstar88

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https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/celtics/celtics-starting-lineup-what-are-ime-udokas-best-options

The Celtics' starting five on opening night should look like this:

PG   MARCUS SMART
SG   JOSH RICHARDSON
SF   JAYLEN BROWN
PF   JAYSON TATUM
C     ROBERT WILLIAMS III

The C's boast a 113.7 offensive rating and a 112.1 defensive rating with this unit, per the Optimal Lineup tool. That's a higher offensive rating with Richardson than if Horford, Schroder or Nesmith was paired with the Smart/Brown/Tatum/Williams core.

While Boston could have a slightly better defensive rating with Schroder (111.1), Horford (111.2) or Nesmith (111.2) on the floor, Richardson has a reputation as a strong defender who can guard multiple positions.

So start 3 players who can’t shoot the ball? Pass.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2021, 05:35:08 PM by Goldstar88 »

Re: NBC Boston: The Celtics Ideal Starting Lineup
« Reply #8 on: October 18, 2021, 05:46:52 PM »

Offline knuckleballer

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The Celtics are going to shock people this year. Last year’s roster was dysfunctional and shallow.  This year, the team is much more balanced and deep.  We are going to watch a much better product.  It’s going to be fun.

Re: NBC Boston: The Celtics Ideal Starting Lineup
« Reply #9 on: October 18, 2021, 06:10:24 PM »

Offline Silas

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The Celtics are going to shock people this year. Last year’s roster was dysfunctional and shallow.  This year, the team is much more balanced and deep.  We are going to watch a much better product.  It’s going to be fun.

I hope you are right, because I agree. 
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Re: NBC Boston: The Celtics Ideal Starting Lineup
« Reply #10 on: October 18, 2021, 06:49:29 PM »

Offline footey

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I am pretty confident this will be Wednesday's starting lineup, based upon preseason and the fact that Horford won't be available but Brown will:

Smart
Langford
Brown
Tatum
Rob Williams

Personally I'd start Schroeder over Smart, but that ain't gonna happen. 

I think the Knicks will be super pumped for this game, more than us, and would not be surprised to lose.  Kemba and Evan have big chips on their shoulder after Celtics rejection.  Reminds me of the first time we played the T Wolves after trading Ricky Davis and Mark Blount.  Just don't have a good feeling. Especially with all the COVID and Marcus Smart nonsense.

Re: NBC Boston: The Celtics Ideal Starting Lineup
« Reply #11 on: October 18, 2021, 10:51:41 PM »

Offline Csfan1984

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Currently I like 11 man rotation as

PG-Schro, PP
SG-Smart, Josh, Langford
SF-Brown, Nesmith
PF-Tatum, Grant
C-Al, TL

I don't expect consistency out of Al and TL so Juancho and Kanter will get playing time when Al or TL sit. Don't expect to see others unless garbage time

Re: NBC Boston: The Celtics Ideal Starting Lineup
« Reply #12 on: October 18, 2021, 11:39:23 PM »

Offline trickybilly

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Currently I like 11 man rotation as

PG-Schro, PP
SG-Smart, Josh, Langford
SF-Brown, Nesmith
PF-Tatum, Grant
C-Al, TL

I don't expect consistency out of Al and TL so Juancho and Kanter will get playing time when Al or TL sit. Don't expect to see others unless garbage time

Yeah, Schro gotta start, I think Juancho and Grant split time depending on matchups...

Romeo probably splits a fair amount of minutes with Josh too.
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Re: NBC Boston: The Celtics Ideal Starting Lineup
« Reply #13 on: October 19, 2021, 08:18:28 AM »

Online Vermont Green

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Adam Himmelsbach
@AdamHimmelsbach
Al Horford is officially on the inactive list for Wednesday’s opener against the Knicks.

With Al now out for the opener, that will change the starting line up of course.  I think Al would have started.  Now things are even harder to predict.  I think 4 of the 5 are clear enough:

Smart
Brown
Tatum
RWilliams

Those 4 will start, the question is who will be the 5th starter.  Schroder has been hurt so probably not him.  Most seem to think it will be Richardson but I am not so sure.  It could be a young player, Langford or Nesmith.  It could also be Grant Williams or Hernangomez.  That is 5-6 options, depending on Schroder.  I would like to see Hernangomez start.  I feel we need to start a second big and I think Hernangomez is slightly better suited than Grant Williams to run with the first unit, and vice verse.  Richardson is likely a bench guy in the long run so he may as well start getting used to that role.   Whoever does start probably still plays under 20 min so not really starter minutes.

Re: NBC Boston: The Celtics Ideal Starting Lineup
« Reply #14 on: October 19, 2021, 08:41:01 AM »

Offline slamtheking

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Quote
Adam Himmelsbach
@AdamHimmelsbach
Al Horford is officially on the inactive list for Wednesday’s opener against the Knicks.

With Al now out for the opener, that will change the starting line up of course.  I think Al would have started.  Now things are even harder to predict.  I think 4 of the 5 are clear enough:

Smart
Brown
Tatum
RWilliams

Those 4 will start, the question is who will be the 5th starter.  Schroder has been hurt so probably not him.  Most seem to think it will be Richardson but I am not so sure.  It could be a young player, Langford or Nesmith.  It could also be Grant Williams or Hernangomez.  That is 5-6 options, depending on Schroder.  I would like to see Hernangomez start.  I feel we need to start a second big and I think Hernangomez is slightly better suited than Grant Williams to run with the first unit, and vice verse.  Richardson is likely a bench guy in the long run so he may as well start getting used to that role.   Whoever does start probably still plays under 20 min so not really starter minutes.
I think they'll be looking for a 3rd scorer to go with the J's while trying to keep balance in bench rotation.

5th starter for this game in order of likeliest to get the nod:
1. Romeo
2. GWill
3. Nesmith
4. Schroder

Richardson has looked useless on offense in the preseason so he should be coming off the bench with either Schroder or PP to keep at least one scorer in the backcourt.  I really think it comes down to who they think matches up better with the Knicks starters --> smaller go with Romeo, taller go with GWill.   If it's a 2-big lineup for the Knicks and Randle gets off to a hot start I could see Juancho getting an early call to sub in.

looking forward to seeing how the C's D handles Kemba and Fournier.