The Rozier hate is misguided

[Csfan1984]

He was going for his own shot all year and shot terribly. His defense was also poor. I can see the reason to hate.

He is easy to blame but come on now. he is not completely to blame folks.

I don't blame him for the whole team's faults just saying he earn some hate.

[Triplenickle]

It's not misguided. It's a fact. He is pure garbage. His stats is pure garbage. His ego is pure garbage.

He will forever be hated in my eyes.

But keep in mind when he is the actual point that's controlling the offense, instead of sporadically coming in giving someone a breather, he takes real good care of the ball and his "point guard" decisions are not bad at all. And see...the point guard position is the hardest to learn and everything about the team becomes your issue. It's the point that has to know when a big needs the ball and what spot he wants it. What defender is guarding who, and knowing when NOT to pass the ball. Knowing when a teammate has a mismatch to exploit. When to push the ball and when not to...and on and on. Seriously Terry is not bad at all running the show. Now when he's off the ball, he's kinda undersized and also he has NO MORE CONTROL OF THE TEAM.  This is why I don't throw garbage his way this year. And how many years has Smart been here?  This year is the first year he looks like a complete point guard.  That position takes the most time to learn if you didn't grow up playing it naturally.  Look at Billups...Pitino actually gave up on him and in hindsight was pretty bone-headed.

That run last year was too long and too consistent to be a fluke. And they figured out on the fly how to beat this exact same team that just humiliated us.

And I didn't even get into his intangibles because I don't wanna argue with Terry-haters, but i'm telling everybody that he fits the point spot here much better than Kyrie will ever.

And what good is Kyries scoring when Tatum, JB, and Hayward, can't get in any offensive flow and Al get's a couple postups all game?

While you're paying Hayward 30 million dollars a year?

Look, I don't hate Kyrie, but when I say his game screws up this team from top to bottom, I really mean it. 

22 points a game is not a big enough payoff to allow that.  Hell, Antoine averaged about 22-10-5, while running the show, and people always wanted him outta here.

Kyrie doesn't give us a fraction of what Antoine did.

This whole fan base is seriously misguided and judge most things incorrectly.

[Chris22]

Rozier plays much better as a starter.

I hope we ditch Kyrie and go after Davis.

[Donoghus]

It's only misguided if you think he was solely the problem. 

There is plenty of blame to go around.  Kyrie, Tatum, Hayward, etc....    Rozier deserves his fair share, though.  He seemed to fall back into bad habits, played extremely selfish at times, played out of control at times, played lackluster basketball, and certainly seemed to carry himself as disgruntled with his role.  I have no idea how much of it affected things behind the scenes but the kid cost himself a good deal of money with the season he just had.  He was not good.

[mmmmm]

its just funny to blame the backup pg for this disaster. 

That's my thoughts on this.  However poorly you might think Terry played (and THAT is a much more nuanced question that depends heavily on his role) the idea that he is somehow what we should be focused on as the problem with this team strikes me as odd.

He was the backup ... not pg ... but rather, 'sometimes pg but more often sg'.   He was only ever really the "PG" when he was on the floor without either Kyrie or Smart.   Otherwise, if either of those two guys were on the floor, then Terry would be told to act as a wing, not a primary ball handler.

I mean, seriously - our problems this season and especially during these playoffs had a lot more to do with player(s) who played a LOT more minutes, took a LOT more shots and had a LOT more control of the ball.

During these last 4 playoff losses, even with Smart mostly absent (so Terry got more ball handling than normal), Rozier got only 145 touches of the ball - 6th on the team.   I think other folks had a lot more impact.

FWIW, Rozier played 717 minutes this year with neither Kyrie nor Smart on the floor.  In that sample, the team actually managed to post a pretty nice Offensive Rating of 110.2 points per 100 possessions.  Their DRtg was not great, at 113.5 but not surprising considering how little that sample includes Al Horford or Aron Baynes and no Smart.   

Terry's individual numbers when he played without KI or MS were as so:  A fairly average scoring efficiency of 52.7% TS% (on 20.8% USG), decent 37.2% 3PT% and perhaps most important, an assist rate of 7.5 per 100 (against just 2.5 turnovers per 100).   Those numbers are notably better than when he played with Kyrie and/or Smart.  If you trim that to just games in which Terry started, then his numbers jump up even more, though I don't have that breakdown handy.  I did post them elsewhere but don't have time to go hunt them down.

In the 346 minutes Terry played with Kyrie and no Smart, his TS% plummeted to 37.8% (though he hardly took very many shots with just a 14.9% USG%) and he dished out just 6.0 assists per 100.

In the 613 minutes Terry played with Smart and no Kyrie, his TS% was better, at 53.4%, though still with low 17.7% USG and an assist rate of 5.8 assists/100.

In the 93 minutes Terry played with BOTH Smart and Kyrie (the dreaded 3-guard lineup), his TS% was a miserable 40.8% (17% USG) and he dished just 2.1 assists/100.

It should be noted that across all these variations, Rozier has always been a very good rebounder, especially for a guard.

Basically, the truth about Rozier's struggles positionally are that he's actually been a decent (not great) PG when he's been the actual PG on the floor 

He sucks as a wing.

This distinction held true last year as well.

In the end, I see Rozier as a fairly decent bench PG who has really struggled with being misused as a wing.  Ultimately he's been a bench guy during all this and I have hard time really blaming him compared to some more notable figures.   I just don't understand getting too worked up over him or his comments.

[feckless]

its just funny to blame the backup pg for this disaster.   Team was better when he played full time.

You are right the level of blame being directed at Rozier is just plain ridiculous.

The self-proclaimed emotional leader was 1- 11 and I think nearly all 11 were really bad shots but somehow he is a hero and epitomizes Celtics basketball, again just ridiculous.

And our paid leader took poor shot after poor shot, played 100% hero ball and couldn't guard anyone, but if Terry Rozier had regained his confidence and played better or if Brad had benched him things would have been different.  Also just ridiculous.

The vitriol and imagined problems in Rozier's attitude and effort are false.  I saw effort, putting his body on the line going after every rebound.  Deflecting passes and trying to find confidence in his shot and for the most part trying to make the right choice on offense.

This team did not work but the fault goes well beyond Terry Rozier with others much more to blame.

[Monkhouse]

its just funny to blame the backup pg for this disaster. 

That's my thoughts on this.  However poorly you might think Terry played (and THAT is a much more nuanced question that depends heavily on his role) the idea that he is somehow what we should be focused on as the problem with this team strikes me as odd.

He was the backup ... not pg ... but rather, 'sometimes pg but more often sg'.   He was only ever really the "PG" when he was on the floor without either Kyrie or Smart.   Otherwise, if either of those two guys were on the floor, then Terry would be told to act as a wing, not a primary ball handler.

I mean, seriously - our problems this season and especially during these playoffs had a lot more to do with player(s) who played a LOT more minutes, took a LOT more shots and had a LOT more control of the ball.

During these last 4 playoff losses, even with Smart mostly absent (so Terry got more ball handling than normal), Rozier got only 145 touches of the ball - 6th on the team.   I think other folks had a lot more impact.

FWIW, Rozier played 717 minutes this year with neither Kyrie nor Smart on the floor.  In that sample, the team actually managed to post a pretty nice Offensive Rating of 110.2 points per 100 possessions.  Their DRtg was not great, at 113.5 but not surprising considering how little that sample includes Al Horford or Aron Baynes and no Smart.   

Terry's individual numbers when he played without KI or MS were as so:  A fairly average scoring efficiency of 52.7% TS% (on 20.8% USG), decent 37.2% 3PT% and perhaps most important, an assist rate of 7.5 per 100 (against just 2.5 turnovers per 100).   Those numbers are notably better than when he played with Kyrie and/or Smart.  If you trim that to just games in which Terry started, then his numbers jump up even more, though I don't have that breakdown handy.  I did post them elsewhere but don't have time to go hunt them down.

In the 346 minutes Terry played with Kyrie and no Smart, his TS% plummeted to 37.8% (though he hardly took very many shots with just a 14.9% USG%) and he dished out just 6.0 assists per 100.

In the 613 minutes Terry played with Smart and no Kyrie, his TS% was better, at 53.4%, though still with low 17.7% USG and an assist rate of 5.8 assists/100.

In the 93 minutes Terry played with BOTH Smart and Kyrie (the dreaded 3-guard lineup), his TS% was a miserable 40.8% (17% USG) and he dished just 2.1 assists/100.

It should be noted that across all these variations, Rozier has always been a very good rebounder, especially for a guard.

Basically, the truth about Rozier's struggles positionally are that he's actually been a decent (not great) PG when he's been the actual PG on the floor 

He sucks as a wing.

This distinction held true last year as well.

In the end, I see Rozier as a fairly decent bench PG who has really struggled with being misused as a wing.  Ultimately he's been a bench guy during all this and I have hard time really blaming him compared to some more notable figures.   I just don't understand getting too worked up over him or his comments.

No one is blaming him entirely, I think placing the blame on anyone alone just sounds foolish. It's a team game, ergo, blame should be placed on the team/coach. When you make disparaging comments like, "I sacrificed everything!" It just makes you sound entitled and definitely not going to endear yourself to the fans before your departure.

But stats aside, you seriously think Rozier was a respectable player this year? From the eye test, his defense was up and down, and it seemed like he was truly never engaged.

The problem is in order for Rozier to be truly effective, he needs to play next to another play maker. As you stated, he did well next to Smart.

I loved him when he got drafted, but my feelings changed this year. His attitude has been awful, and while we don't have the full scope of what happened in the locker room, he definitely had played a role in that. Maybe he truly needs to start elsewhere, but the notion that he can suddenly become some 20+ PPG is outlandish.

I still have love for him, but while the blame shouldn't be placed on him solely, I honestly cannot wait until he leaves. I think he deserves to go somewhere that will give him the minutes to prove himself.

[angryguy77]

No, it is not misguided. He sucks.

[Rosco917]

Terry had a very consistent season.

Consistently selfish, and consistently self-promoting. He's not a point guard, he's a ball-dominant, undersized shooting guard, that scores at an extremely streaky rate. He rebounds well, mostly to get the ball in his hands as quickly as possible.

The second Terry received the slightest bit of recognition he morphed into "Scary Terry" hired gun. It will be years before Terry finds who he is as an NBA player. As the saying goes, "He's a legend in his own mind." 

         

[Walker Wiggle]

He had a bad year. He was frustrated with his role and it may have impacted the team. He’s got flaws in his game.

All of these things might be true, but it is unnecessary and inaccurate to call players “trash”, “garbage”, “useless”, etc. Fans and media members are getting too liberal with their language when addressing situations like these. It’s unseemly and it doesn’t reflect well on us as a pro sports city.

[philr13]

I've been a Rozier fan all along, but his recent remarks are truly misguided.

The idea that he sacrificed more than anybody is pretty silly. What was the sacrifice exactly? Minutes? After 91 games he's still miffed about not being a starter?

There's nothing new about very good players coming off the bench in the NBA. I can't believe that he was so distracted by this that it effected his play for an entire season, but that appears to be what happened.

He's a talented guy, but I'm not sure he's going to be any happier going forward. The Celtics can't trade him, so it's more than likely that they match any offers and bring him back. If he signs the qualifying offer he's in for an even worse season next year than he had this year.

[vjcsmoke]

Honestly it's a good thing Rozier is a free agent this year.  He has the talent but he was a toxic influence on the lockerroom.  Let him get paid elsewhere.  He would never be good enough to take over for Kyrie.

Celtics likely are getting the #9, #14, and #20 picks this year.  They probably trade Tatum, #9, #14, and maybe another 1st rounder for AD.  That means we can pick up a backup point at #20 no problem.  And this young guy won't have any ego issues, at least not in his rookie year.

I don't hate Rozier, but I think his time in Boston is up and it's a good thing for the team to move on without him.

[feckless]

Honestly it's a good thing Rozier is a free agent this year.  He has the talent but he was a toxic influence on the lockerroom.  Let him get paid elsewhere.  He would never be good enough to take over for Kyrie.

Celtics likely are getting the #9, #14, and #20 picks this year.  They probably trade Tatum, #9, #14, and maybe another 1st rounder for AD.  That means we can pick up a backup point at #20 no problem.  And this young guy won't have any ego issues, at least not in his rookie year.

I don't hate Rozier, but I think his time in Boston is up and it's a good thing for the team to move on without him.

How do you know he was a toxic influence?  Do not just make stuff up.

[Monkhouse]

Honestly it's a good thing Rozier is a free agent this year.  He has the talent but he was a toxic influence on the lockerroom.  Let him get paid elsewhere.  He would never be good enough to take over for Kyrie.

Celtics likely are getting the #9, #14, and #20 picks this year.  They probably trade Tatum, #9, #14, and maybe another 1st rounder for AD.  That means we can pick up a backup point at #20 no problem.  And this young guy won't have any ego issues, at least not in his rookie year.

I don't hate Rozier, but I think his time in Boston is up and it's a good thing for the team to move on without him.

How do you know he was a toxic influence?  Do not just make stuff up.

Yes, because his recent comments about the Celtics reveal how great of a teammate he is.

[rondofan1255]

They could just renounce Rozier and let him go wherever he wants.