Author Topic: Blow it up Danny!.....  (Read 6057 times)

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Re: Blow it up Danny!.....
« Reply #30 on: May 07, 2019, 03:15:47 PM »

Offline footey

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If we are serious about winning championships, then it would behoove us to re-sign Kyrie, and trade for Davis.  Build around them and whoever is left over, probably Brown, Hayward (maybe, although he may have to go).  Smart and Tatum likely gone.

Blow up means no championships.

Re: Blow it up Danny!.....
« Reply #31 on: May 07, 2019, 03:17:27 PM »

Offline Triplenickle

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This team has plenty of talent. Ainge doesn't need to blow it up. Stevens has mismanaged the team in so many ways. And it is no coincidence that the Celts have played better without Kyrie. The Celts need to stop chucking up so many 3's, get more points in the paint and get a big next year who can protect the rim and rebound. Unfortunately, it seems Irving won't stay unless the Celtics acquire another all-star, such as AD. That means losing Tatum and other key players. And there's no guarantee AD will stay beyond a year. If Irving stays and Rozier walks, I am confident Rozier will have a breakout year with another team and average 20 ppg. Perhaps AD is the answer to the Celtics woes. Perhaps with AD they can overcome Stevens' mismanagement. In any case, the off season will be very intriguing.

How can you even watch him this year, and even think that statement of yours even makes sense... What is with the Rozier lovers all of the sudden? He plain out stunk this playoffs... To put it into perspective, Rozier has yet to shoot 40% or more on FGA. Even if you spew out the 'starting numbers are better,' shtick, there should be no excuse for how horrible he has been this year.

Because Rozier has been relegated to a second thought this year, and if anyone thinks he's the reason for the loses or the turnaround in the series just doesn't get it.

Maybe people should go back and watch how he played when the coach actually depended on him.  He didn't turn into another guy, this team just has a big "direction" problem.

Because Rozier isn't that good? No one is blaming the entire series on Rozier, that isn't fair or conclusive of the facts. That is why it is a team game, and why you cannot place the blame solely on Irving alone.

But he isn't great either, or he would clearly be running the 2nd unit consistently...

Again... I ask you, how good or 'great,' can a player be that is shooting under 40% FG.

All I hear is you guys claim he's a good player, where is the facts or statistics to back this up?

Turning it around and beating this same team last year would be a great start.  This team with so-called "great" Kyrie is rolling over like a bunch of weak college players.

Listen, the coach himself busted up what was the start of a great young team.  He's now dealing with one of his wrong decisions, of which there are many.

Re: Blow it up Danny!.....
« Reply #32 on: May 07, 2019, 03:22:23 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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i'm 100% on the "keep the veteran leaders (smart and horford), let all the other established / paid players go, and see what jay and jay can become" train.

A plateau team unless one (or probably) both of the kids can make the leap into Top 10-20 players.


Yeah, probably.  But they'd be a lot more fun to watch than this team has been, and if they clear up the cap sheet, there would be a chance to add other pieces in the future once we're a bit closer to the right timeline for Jay & Jay.


I mean, what's the alternative?  Hope that Kyrie becomes something he hasn't been his whole career?  Put all the eggs in the Anthony Davis basket and hope he develops some leadership ability and some integrity, not to mention the ability to play a full season? 

Or should we just throw this whole team away and be terrible for 4-5 years in the hopes of drafting the next MVP? 


I don't trust Anthony Davis and I think keeping Kyrie without adding another guy who is significantly better than Kyrie (and who is capable of leading a team) would make the Celts a plateau team, as well.


My thing is, if we're going to be a plateau team, at least have them be young and likeable, as opposed to maxed out and irritating.

A "fun & likeable" team that gets bounced in the first or second round year after year won't remain "fun & likeable" by much of the fanbase for very long.  Especially in a city like Boston.


You may be right about that.


Case in point is that as soon as you suggest "hey maybe we should just try to build a solid dependable team with upside instead of going all-in for a title with players who don't seem that committed to winning a title in Boston" the immediate response is "So you want to just be a mediocre team forever then?"


Boston fans, it seems, can't compute the notion that maybe building a team like the Blazers or Nuggets and just enjoying that for 5-10 years, with the hope that maybe one or two of those years they'll make a run to the Finals and get a chance to win a title, might be enough.

Nope, either you're angling to build a title favorite or you should be blowing it up and tanking.
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Re: Blow it up Danny!.....
« Reply #33 on: May 07, 2019, 03:32:22 PM »

Offline Triplenickle

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And i'm not even upset because I wanted to get rid of Kyrie, Brad and Hayward all year.

And Hayward looks exactly like those first 5 minutes he played last year.  I thought to myself then that this couldn't be the guy that fans disrespected Crowder for is it?

Yes it is

Re: Blow it up Danny!.....
« Reply #34 on: May 07, 2019, 03:46:09 PM »

Offline Bobshot

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I just saw  Stevens quoted in a tweet saying they aren't defending the rim against the Bucks.

A lot of people have been saying all along their weakness is they don't have a rim protector.  The Celtics have never won anything without a big who protected the rim, and without some degree of inside game. Ainge drafted a kid named Williams who grabbed a lot of bench splinters all year when he wasn't in Maine. OK, so the kid never learned the perimeter game in Texas. But why didn't Ainge get another big when a bunch of them were available down the stretch? The other contenders quickly grabbed them.

Seems as though Stevens and Ainge just don't want to admit the Celtics aren't a complete team, with their overemphasis of the perimeter.

I was curious about why the Celtics won that first game on the road against the Bucks. I had previously thought Baynes had been a factor, but he wasn't.  The difference was they shot 54%, 41% 3s. That's why they won. Trouble is you can't shoot that well every game. If they had shot just a few percent less, they would have lost. The next game, they shot about 20% 3s. A recipe for a loss.

What ails this team is a lack of an inside game. Both offensively and defensively. As a result, their opponent gets easier shots than they do. Life is simple.



Re: Blow it up Danny!.....
« Reply #35 on: May 07, 2019, 03:50:15 PM »

Offline angryguy77

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i'm 100% on the "keep the veteran leaders (smart and horford), let all the other established / paid players go, and see what jay and jay can become" train.

A plateau team unless one (or probably) both of the kids can make the leap into Top 10-20 players.


Yeah, probably.  But they'd be a lot more fun to watch than this team has been, and if they clear up the cap sheet, there would be a chance to add other pieces in the future once we're a bit closer to the right timeline for Jay & Jay.


I mean, what's the alternative?  Hope that Kyrie becomes something he hasn't been his whole career?  Put all the eggs in the Anthony Davis basket and hope he develops some leadership ability and some integrity, not to mention the ability to play a full season? 

Or should we just throw this whole team away and be terrible for 4-5 years in the hopes of drafting the next MVP? 


I don't trust Anthony Davis and I think keeping Kyrie without adding another guy who is significantly better than Kyrie (and who is capable of leading a team) would make the Celts a plateau team, as well.


My thing is, if we're going to be a plateau team, at least have them be young and likeable, as opposed to maxed out and irritating.

A "fun & likeable" team that gets bounced in the first or second round year after year won't remain "fun & likeable" by much of the fanbase for very long.  Especially in a city like Boston.


You may be right about that.


Case in point is that as soon as you suggest "hey maybe we should just try to build a solid dependable team with upside instead of going all-in for a title with players who don't seem that committed to winning a title in Boston" the immediate response is "So you want to just be a mediocre team forever then?"


Boston fans, it seems, can't compute the notion that maybe building a team like the Blazers or Nuggets and just enjoying that for 5-10 years, with the hope that maybe one or two of those years they'll make a run to the Finals and get a chance to win a title, might be enough.

Nope, either you're angling to build a title favorite or you should be blowing it up and tanking.

Being in basketball limbo isn't any fun. I can't imagine following a team for such a long season just to get to see them get bounced in early in the playoffs year after year.

Re: Blow it up Danny!.....
« Reply #36 on: May 07, 2019, 03:54:16 PM »

Offline Donoghus

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i'm 100% on the "keep the veteran leaders (smart and horford), let all the other established / paid players go, and see what jay and jay can become" train.

A plateau team unless one (or probably) both of the kids can make the leap into Top 10-20 players.


Yeah, probably.  But they'd be a lot more fun to watch than this team has been, and if they clear up the cap sheet, there would be a chance to add other pieces in the future once we're a bit closer to the right timeline for Jay & Jay.


I mean, what's the alternative?  Hope that Kyrie becomes something he hasn't been his whole career?  Put all the eggs in the Anthony Davis basket and hope he develops some leadership ability and some integrity, not to mention the ability to play a full season? 

Or should we just throw this whole team away and be terrible for 4-5 years in the hopes of drafting the next MVP? 


I don't trust Anthony Davis and I think keeping Kyrie without adding another guy who is significantly better than Kyrie (and who is capable of leading a team) would make the Celts a plateau team, as well.


My thing is, if we're going to be a plateau team, at least have them be young and likeable, as opposed to maxed out and irritating.

A "fun & likeable" team that gets bounced in the first or second round year after year won't remain "fun & likeable" by much of the fanbase for very long.  Especially in a city like Boston.


You may be right about that.


Case in point is that as soon as you suggest "hey maybe we should just try to build a solid dependable team with upside instead of going all-in for a title with players who don't seem that committed to winning a title in Boston" the immediate response is "So you want to just be a mediocre team forever then?"


Boston fans, it seems, can't compute the notion that maybe building a team like the Blazers or Nuggets and just enjoying that for 5-10 years, with the hope that maybe one or two of those years they'll make a run to the Finals and get a chance to win a title, might be enough.

Nope, either you're angling to build a title favorite or you should be blowing it up and tanking.

Being in basketball limbo isn't any fun. I can't imagine following a team for such a long season just to get to see them get bounced in early in the playoffs year after year.

Certainly not what I want as a sports fan.   


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Re: Blow it up Danny!.....
« Reply #37 on: May 07, 2019, 03:55:12 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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Being in basketball limbo isn't any fun. I can't imagine following a team for such a long season just to get to see them get bounced in early in the playoffs year after year.

I mean I guess we need to define "year after year."

We've watched the Celtics get bounced in the playoffs for the last 5 years.  A couple times they made the ECF but they were never really anywhere close to competing for a title.

How is that different?


For me it's about (a) Do I enjoy watching the team play and (b) Do I feel like there's a sense of progression / possibility of improving.

With this group we have now, the answer is No and No.

Let's say Kyrie leaves, they don't trade for AD, and the team refocuses around Jayson and Jaylen.

If after 2-3 years it's clear neither of those guys is ever going to be a superstar and the team hasn't been able to find a way to add more talented pieces to complement them, then I say sure.  Let's go ahead and blow it up.

But there's no way to say for sure right now how good Tatum and Brown can be.  I do know what the ceiling of a team led by Kyrie is likely to be.  I think we're seeing it right now.


The ceiling of a team with AD is probably a lot higher, but we actually don't have any proof of that.  AD has never led his team past the second round.  He misses a lot of games every year.  He has shown very little in the way of leadership ability.  Indeed, the whole fiasco in New Orleans this year makes me seriously question his character and judgment.  And if the Celts trade everything for him, he may only stick around for one year.




Certainly not what I want as a sports fan.


My number one thing is if I'm going to be following a team day after day, week after week, month after month, as I am basically bound to do with the Celtics, I want to enjoy doing so.  I want to enjoy the players on the team and I want to enjoy watching them play, especially.

This team has not been enjoyable to follow, at all.

And if they become a more talented version of the same thing next year, even if they have a theoretically greater chance of competing for a title, I wont' enjoy them one bit more than I have this year.


Conversely, I DEFINITELY enjoyed following this team more in the last few years when they were objectively less talented and had even less of a chance at going far but they were MUCH more enjoyable and likable on a nightly basis.


Watching Isaiah Thomas lead the Celts to a victory over the Wizards in the second round a couple years ago with a bum hip, for example, stands out in my memory as a really great moment in my time as a Celtics fan even though the team went on to get trounced by the Cavs in the following series. 

Sure a title would mean a lot more, but the vast majority of seasons will not end in a title.  So I'm going to keep being the advocate for the importance of having a team that allows us to enjoy the journey.

After all, the journey to the next Celtics title might be 2 years or it might be 20.  We just don't know.  That's true irrespective of what strategy management takes for building the roster moving forward.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2019, 04:03:04 PM by PhoSita »
You’ll have to excuse my lengthiness—the reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
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Re: Blow it up Danny!.....
« Reply #38 on: May 07, 2019, 04:06:48 PM »

Offline angryguy77

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Being in basketball limbo isn't any fun. I can't imagine following a team for such a long season just to get to see them get bounced in early in the playoffs year after year.

I mean I guess we need to define "year after year."

We've watched the Celtics get bounced in the playoffs for the last 5 years.  A couple times they made the ECF but they were never really anywhere close to competing for a title.

How is that different?


For me it's about (a) Do I enjoy watching the team play and (b) Do I feel like there's a sense of progression / possibility of improving.

With this group we have now, the answer is No and No.

Let's say Kyrie leaves, they don't trade for AD, and the team refocuses around Jayson and Jaylen.

If after 2-3 years it's clear neither of those guys is ever going to be a superstar and the team hasn't been able to find a way to add more talented pieces to complement them, then I say sure.  Let's go ahead and blow it up.

But there's no way to say for sure right now how good Tatum and Brown can be.  I do know what the ceiling of a team led by Kyrie is likely to be.  I think we're seeing it right now.


The ceiling of a team with AD is probably a lot higher, but we actually don't have any proof of that.  AD has never led his team past the second round.  He misses a lot of games every year.  He has shown very little in the way of leadership ability.  Indeed, the whole fiasco in New Orleans this year makes me seriously question his character and judgment.  And if the Celts trade everything for him, he may only stick around for one year.


When I read your post the team that I thought of was the ATL Hawks squad that couldn't get past the top contenders during our big 3 era. Some teams just get stuck and don't have the assets to get them over the hump or are bad enough to pick a franchise player.

However if there is realistic hope the team can improve, then I can live with getting bounced out for a few years.

I think we probably agree more on this than we don't, it's just a different opinion on what "limbo" is I guess.


As for AD, it's a gamble, but imo the chances of it working out are better than they are not. If he won't commit to more than one year, then no, I wouldn't trade for him. I always hated the idea of rentals, especially if you have to give away young talent for it.

Re: Blow it up Danny!.....
« Reply #39 on: May 07, 2019, 04:41:12 PM »

Offline tonydelk

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No matter what there will be big changes this off season.

If Kyrie stays then AD will be on his way.

If Kyrie leaves, Al will probably opt out and The C's will draft young guys and build around Tatum and Brown.

Re: Blow it up Danny!.....
« Reply #40 on: May 07, 2019, 05:21:15 PM »

Offline flybono

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Im all aboard the Davis Train!

Whatever it takes to get him here make the move. Like I said, Pray the Memphis pick is Top 8 so the pick continues to hold value until 21 when its unprotected.

For whatever reason the game has changed to a shooters league, if there is anything I cannot stand, its watching bigs like Lopez and Horford shoot 3's. Kevin McHale must lose sleep at night watching todays game.

Re: Blow it up Danny!.....
« Reply #41 on: May 07, 2019, 05:22:39 PM »

Offline flybono

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No matter what there will be big changes this off season.

If Kyrie stays then AD will be on his way.

If Kyrie leaves, Al will probably opt out and The C's will draft young guys and build around Tatum and Brown.


Pray Horford opts out even if its to resign for a lesser amount with adding years. He is not a 30 million a year player

Re: Blow it up Danny!.....
« Reply #42 on: May 07, 2019, 05:30:35 PM »

Offline mctyson

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I am not sure I see Ainge making a $40 million per year offer to Kyrie at this point, given everything that happened this season and his bombing in the playoffs.

Re: Blow it up Danny!.....
« Reply #43 on: May 07, 2019, 05:32:27 PM »

Offline Chris22

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How about we play Baynes and Williams instead of Rozier and Semi?

Going small never works.

It really never does.

Thank you! When I saw Rozier, Smart, and Kyrie on the floor at the same time, I thought, "What are you thinking, Brad?"

Re: Blow it up Danny!.....
« Reply #44 on: May 07, 2019, 05:37:22 PM »

Offline Monkhouse

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How about we play Baynes and Williams instead of Rozier and Semi?

Going small never works.

It really never does.

Thank you! When I saw Rozier, Smart, and Kyrie on the floor at the same time, I thought, "What are you thinking, Brad?"

Same here... That's when we got roasted in the 3rd quarter... I still don't get why he doesn't use Semi or Baynes... Two players that were effective last year..
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