Author Topic: Smart out up to two rounds!  (Read 7429 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: Smart out up to two rounds!
« Reply #30 on: April 10, 2019, 07:51:47 PM »

Offline PhoSita

  • NCE
  • Dennis Johnson
  • ******************
  • Posts: 18291
  • Tommy Points: 1682

I know people have kind of perfected burying their heads in the sand when it has come to Stevens' shortcomings, but, man, how you can rationalize this one away is beyond me, Pho. This is literal harm with no benefit coming from Stevens' poor decision-making, yet somehow it's not his fault? Give me a break.


I guess I just don't agree with the idea that the team should rest every single important rotation player once seeding is determined.

I mean, Smart is important but he's arguably the 4th or 5th most talented player on the team.  Brad had to play somebody.


Also I tend to think that Brad's ability to simply say "All of you guys are sitting tonight" is hampered by the players themselves wanting to play.  Knowing that he was going to sit basically the whole team minus Jaylen and Terry in the season finale, it's hard to imagine Brad getting all the guys to agree to sit out Sunday as well.


And the fact remains that this is the sort of injury that could happen anytime.

Why does it bother you so much more that it happened at some point in a relatively meaningless game against Orlando as opposed to happening during the blowout against Indiana, or during the first few minutes of the first game of round 1?


Is an injury only acceptable if it occurs during a part of the game that was "meaningful"?  Does it matter if the play in question was one that did or did not affect the outcome of the game?


Shoot, Smart has injured himself tons of times by risking his body for loose balls and the like even when the play wouldn't really make a big difference and the game wasn't that important.


In fact, I seem to recall that Smart was injured heading into the playoffs last year because of something just like that.



This is part of the Marcus Smart experience.  He's going to get some wear and tear injuries related to his style of play, and it could happen anytime. 


I don't put it on Brad to prevent that stuff.
You’ll have to excuse my lengthiness—the reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
- Mark Twain

Re: Smart out up to two rounds!
« Reply #31 on: April 10, 2019, 07:52:34 PM »

Online bdm860

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4485
  • Tommy Points: 1900
This all seems odd.

Injury happened on Sunday and this is breaking on Wednesday, after Ainge went on the air this morning and said:

Quote
Danny Ainge on Marcus Smart to @Toucherandrich: "We see him as day-to-day. Hopefully, he will practice tomorrow."
Ainge on Tatum: "He's fine."

When does it take 3 days to diagnose something like this?  I feel like we'd know Smart's status Monday morning.

Maybe Ainge was trying to play mind games and purposely giving out false info when he said Smart is day-to-day?  Maybe Ainge is playing mind games now with this Woj leak?  Maybe Smart got a 2nd opinion?  Are the C's back to having a sucky medical staff?

Some additional links from a couple of days ago:

On Monday Woj said:
Quote
Strained oblique for Boston’s Marcus Smart, league source tells ESPN. They’ll see how it responds in next 24-48 hours.

And Stevens said:
Quote
Brad Stevens says that Marcus Smart has a “bruise” on side. “Better than a strain or whatever,” said Stevens. “We’ll see what that looks like. He’s really sore. But he was walking around which is good, in the locker room."

So maybe it just didn't respond well after 48 hours?  I'm no doctor, but does this stuff not show up on an MRI or CT scan?  Why even wait to do one of those, not like they're invasive.  Or maybe the treatment is the same either way for a bruise vs tear?  All very interesting.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2019, 08:03:59 PM by bdm860 »

After 18 months with their Bigs, the Littles were: 46% less likely to use illegal drugs, 27% less likely to use alcohol, 52% less likely to skip school, 37% less likely to skip a class

Re: Smart out up to two rounds!
« Reply #32 on: April 10, 2019, 07:53:33 PM »

Offline CelticSooner

  • Satch Sanders
  • *********
  • Posts: 9273
  • Tommy Points: 620
  • GOT IT!!!
I’ll take the silver lining. This might be a good thing long term in terms of rotation management. If JB is playing well when Smart gets back he can be that bulldog off the bench. Smart plays his role well outside of taking heat checks at inopportune times.

Re: Smart out up to two rounds!
« Reply #33 on: April 10, 2019, 07:55:25 PM »

Online jpotter33

  • Bill Russell
  • ******************************
  • Posts: 30452
  • Tommy Points: 278
You guys blaming Brad for this are out of line.

It was a regular season game and NBA players get payed to play

The players already had Tuesday off. What are they supposed to? Not play a single game in 8 days leading up to the playoffs?
Then they would've been as rusty as hell.

How many days are the players supposed to have off?

I guess someone has to be blamed for everything.

Please.

Yeah, if he rested all the rotation guys in Orlando as well as Washington and then the team came out and lost the Round 1 opener, everybody here would be calling for his head because the team wasn't ready.


Plus the #3 seed was still in play.  If the C's beat Orlando, and Philly loses tonight, the C's would have gotten the #3 seed.    Sure a lot of us would prefer the #4 seed and being on MIL side of the bracket, but there's also the possibility of a PHI/BOS ECF with Boston having home court if the C's grab #3.  Practically no chance of home court after the first round unless DET/ORL/CHA/BRK pull off some of the greatest upsets of all time.

Should the team have sat everyone once they clinched a playoff spot in March?

I don't know why all playoff teams don't rest all of their starters once they clinch the playoffs, honestly.


Surely the NBA would allow that, right?

https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFallacies/30/Appeal-to-Extremes
Whatever crushes individuality is despotism, by whatever name it may be called and whether it professes to be enforcing the will of God or the injunctions of men.

Re: Smart out up to two rounds!
« Reply #34 on: April 10, 2019, 07:58:28 PM »

Online Sophomore

  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1603
  • Tommy Points: 289
If the Celtics say two rounds it means he might be ready by October.

Re: Smart out up to two rounds!
« Reply #35 on: April 10, 2019, 08:04:09 PM »

Online bdm860

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4485
  • Tommy Points: 1900
This all seems odd.

Injury happened on Sunday and this is breaking on Wednesday, after Ainge went on the air this morning and said:

Quote
Danny Ainge on Marcus Smart to @Toucherandrich: "We see him as day-to-day. Hopefully, he will practice tomorrow."
Ainge on Tatum: "He's fine."

When does it take 3 days to diagnose something like this?  I feel like we'd know Smart's status Monday morning.

Maybe Ainge was trying to play mind games and purposely giving out false info when he said Smart is day-to-day?  Maybe Ainge is playing mind games now with this Woj leak?  Maybe Smart got a 2nd opinion?  Are the C's back to having a sucky medical staff?

Some additional links from a couple of days ago:

On Monday Woj said:
Quote
Strained oblique for Boston’s Marcus Smart, league source tells ESPN. They’ll see how it responds in next 24-48 hours.

And Stevens said:
Quote
Brad Stevens says that Marcus Smart has a “bruise” on side. “Better than a strain or whatever,” said Stevens. “We’ll see what that looks like. He’s really sore. But he was walking around which is good, in the locker room."

So maybe it just didn't respond well after 48 hours?  I'm no doctor, but does this stuff not show up on an MRI or CT scan?  Why even wait to do one of those, not like they're invasive.  Or maybe the treatment is the same either way for a bruise vs tear?  All very interesting.

Answering my own questions.  Forsberg and Himmelsbach are saying pain was too severe for MRI before today (not a good sign, but don't you just lay on a table for one of those?).  On the brighter side, they're only saying he's out for at least Round 1 and undetermined for Round 2 (of course this could just be team PR spin, not commenting on 2nd round until you make it that far).

https://twitter.com/ChrisForsberg_/status/1116121879113359361?s=19
Quote
Source says that Marcus Smart waited on MRI because pain left him unable to undergo it before today. Confirmed a more serious oblique injury. He's out for Round 1 of the playoffs and team is gathering info to see if it’ll be longer than that.

https://twitter.com/AdamHimmelsbach/status/1116119610707927040
Quote
Per sources, Marcus Smart was to undergo an MRI yesterday but the pain was too severe. He had one this afternoon instead that revealed a significant oblique injury. Return timeline is unclear, but he is expected to miss at least the first round of the playoffs, as @wojespn said.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2019, 08:10:55 PM by bdm860 »

After 18 months with their Bigs, the Littles were: 46% less likely to use illegal drugs, 27% less likely to use alcohol, 52% less likely to skip school, 37% less likely to skip a class

Re: Smart out up to two rounds!
« Reply #36 on: April 10, 2019, 08:07:54 PM »

Offline Vox_Populi

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3940
  • Tommy Points: 264

I know people have kind of perfected burying their heads in the sand when it has come to Stevens' shortcomings, but, man, how you can rationalize this one away is beyond me, Pho. This is literal harm with no benefit coming from Stevens' poor decision-making, yet somehow it's not his fault? Give me a break.


I guess I just don't agree with the idea that the team should rest every single important rotation player once seeding is determined.

I mean, Smart is important but he's arguably the 4th or 5th most talented player on the team.  Brad had to play somebody.


Also I tend to think that Brad's ability to simply say "All of you guys are sitting tonight" is hampered by the players themselves wanting to play.  Knowing that he was going to sit basically the whole team minus Jaylen and Terry in the season finale, it's hard to imagine Brad getting all the guys to agree to sit out Sunday as well.


And the fact remains that this is the sort of injury that could happen anytime.

Why does it bother you so much more that it happened at some point in a relatively meaningless game against Orlando as opposed to happening during the blowout against Indiana, or during the first few minutes of the first game of round 1?


Is an injury only acceptable if it occurs during a part of the game that was "meaningful"?  Does it matter if the play in question was one that did or did not affect the outcome of the game?


Shoot, Smart has injured himself tons of times by risking his body for loose balls and the like even when the play wouldn't really make a big difference and the game wasn't that important.


In fact, I seem to recall that Smart was injured heading into the playoffs last year because of something just like that.



This is part of the Marcus Smart experience.  He's going to get some wear and tear injuries related to his style of play, and it could happen anytime. 


I don't put it on Brad to prevent that stuff.
Don't bother, it's just hindsight moaning.

Greg Popovich, Budenholzer, Brett Brown, Steve Kerr - all on teams with large analytic units and focused on health - like to play their main guys in games 80, 81, or 82. Look at Tim Duncan's game logs his last four or so seasons, he was playing in at least two of the last three games even when the seeding was set.

Blaming Smart's injury on Stevens is asinine. No one could have predicted it, he would have almost certainly sat out the last game. Stevens probably just didn't want to have the starters go over a week without playing in a real game.

Re: Smart out up to two rounds!
« Reply #37 on: April 10, 2019, 08:11:39 PM »

Online jpotter33

  • Bill Russell
  • ******************************
  • Posts: 30452
  • Tommy Points: 278

I know people have kind of perfected burying their heads in the sand when it has come to Stevens' shortcomings, but, man, how you can rationalize this one away is beyond me, Pho. This is literal harm with no benefit coming from Stevens' poor decision-making, yet somehow it's not his fault? Give me a break.

And the fact remains that this is the sort of injury that could happen anytime.

Why does it bother you so much more that it happened at some point in a relatively meaningless game against Orlando as opposed to happening during the blowout against Indiana, or during the first few minutes of the first game of round 1?


Is an injury only acceptable if it occurs during a part of the game that was "meaningful"?  Does it matter if the play in question was one that did or did not affect the outcome of the game?


Yes, this is pretty much self-evidently true. It's standard practice to rest players in this kind of context, especially a team that has dealt with the type and severity of injuries that we've had the last several years, and this is exactly the reason why it is standard practice. Injury risk is part of the game, and when you're playing meaningful games it's a justified risk. However, when you're not playing in a meaningful game but getting ready for the playoffs, then it is certainly not a justified risk, as there's no payout or benefit for risking injury in that manner, especially in a player like Smart who is not someone that knows how to play any other way.

But what gets me the most is that Stevens regularly does rest players for the playoffs, just resting several of our main guys against Brooklyn not too long ago, even though that cost us a game while we were still fighting for home court advantage. So the fact that he decided to not rest anyone after we had already clinched homecourt advantage is just mind-numbingly inconsistent and illogical.

There wasn't even any other justification for playing the main guys either, such as trying to get them back in a groove and playing well together before the playoffs, as they already were playing well at that point. Prior to Orlando, they had won 5 of the last 6, with the lone loss being the one game against the Nets where Brad rested several of our main guys, including Kyrie and Al.

So, no, there was just literally no justification for taking that type of risk for the Orlando game, and now once again we are having to pay for the poor decision-making of Brad.
Whatever crushes individuality is despotism, by whatever name it may be called and whether it professes to be enforcing the will of God or the injunctions of men.

Re: Smart out up to two rounds!
« Reply #38 on: April 10, 2019, 08:15:42 PM »

Offline keevsnick

  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1464
  • Tommy Points: 125
I'm not sure you can realistically just shut guys completely down even once seeding is determined. Going a whole week or more without playing at all heading into the playoffs seems like it could effect rhythm, that's part of the reason I'm glad Jaylen got some minutes yesterday. Not only that but the league just wouldn't allow it. One game, sure. But you start sitting out guys for longer periods they will have some thing say. Plus I think, in general, players want to play. Especially guys like smart. Overall, this is just the kind of stuff you have to factor into the value equation with smart. Because he throws himself around d he gets hurt.

All that said, why put him back in the game after te initial injury? That is certainly a mistake.

Re: Smart out up to two rounds!
« Reply #39 on: April 10, 2019, 08:16:24 PM »

Offline gpap

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6717
  • Tommy Points: 319
Another A+ job, Brad! One of our most important players gets severely injured in a meaningless game right before the playoffs because you’re a dumbass who doesn’t think, even though you had no problem resting other players costing us games while we were still in the battle for the fourth seed for some ungodly reason.  >:(

So done with Brad. It’s dumb, arbitrary, and inconsistent decisions like this that have screwed us over all season long. What a joke. The day he no longer coaches the C’s can’t come soon enough.

Smart could have gotten hurt in any game. 

The reason we love him is that he tries hard in every game he plays, and that he tries to play as often as possible.

Your reaction is over the top and irrational, but I get it because this is some really bad news.

First, this wasn't just any game - it was literally meaningless for the Celtics. So, sure, he could've got hurt in any game, but he had literally no reason to play in this game, along with the rest of the starters.

Second, the only thing irrational here is Brad's decision-making - like, literally irrational. He rested people down the stretch in numerous games for the playoffs, even when we were fighting for home court advantage, costing us several games. Yet as soon as we lock it up he goes ahead and plays everyone in a literally meaningless game, leading to two starters getting hurt and leaving the game. That's literally irrational decision-making.

I know people have kind of perfected burying their heads in the sand when it has come to Stevens' shortcomings
, but, man, how you can rationalize this one away is beyond me, Pho. This is literal harm with no benefit coming from Stevens' poor decision-making, yet somehow it's not his fault? Give me a break.

I don't believe Brad is above criticism, but blaming him for Smart's injury is just completely illogical.

Like you mentioned, it could've just as easily happened in any other game (including the playoffs.)

Welcome to the NBA.

Yes, the timing sucks, but I still think it's unfair to blame Stevens.

Also, it wasn't a meaningless game. The 3 seed was still a possibility. If you have a chance to move up in the seedings, then why not do it?

Again, no starters played on Tuesday so why bench them during 2 consecutive games? As might as well give them the whole season off.


Re: Smart out up to two rounds!
« Reply #40 on: April 10, 2019, 08:18:58 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

  • Johnny Most
  • ********************
  • Posts: 20941
  • Tommy Points: 1984
As long as it means more minutes for Hayward, I'm cool with it.

If our chances in the playoffs come down to Marcus Smart, this roster was a giant failure anyways.

Re: Smart out up to two rounds!
« Reply #41 on: April 10, 2019, 08:22:33 PM »

Online jpotter33

  • Bill Russell
  • ******************************
  • Posts: 30452
  • Tommy Points: 278

I know people have kind of perfected burying their heads in the sand when it has come to Stevens' shortcomings, but, man, how you can rationalize this one away is beyond me, Pho. This is literal harm with no benefit coming from Stevens' poor decision-making, yet somehow it's not his fault? Give me a break.


I guess I just don't agree with the idea that the team should rest every single important rotation player once seeding is determined.

I mean, Smart is important but he's arguably the 4th or 5th most talented player on the team.  Brad had to play somebody.


Also I tend to think that Brad's ability to simply say "All of you guys are sitting tonight" is hampered by the players themselves wanting to play.  Knowing that he was going to sit basically the whole team minus Jaylen and Terry in the season finale, it's hard to imagine Brad getting all the guys to agree to sit out Sunday as well.


And the fact remains that this is the sort of injury that could happen anytime.

Why does it bother you so much more that it happened at some point in a relatively meaningless game against Orlando as opposed to happening during the blowout against Indiana, or during the first few minutes of the first game of round 1?


Is an injury only acceptable if it occurs during a part of the game that was "meaningful"?  Does it matter if the play in question was one that did or did not affect the outcome of the game?


Shoot, Smart has injured himself tons of times by risking his body for loose balls and the like even when the play wouldn't really make a big difference and the game wasn't that important.


In fact, I seem to recall that Smart was injured heading into the playoffs last year because of something just like that.



This is part of the Marcus Smart experience.  He's going to get some wear and tear injuries related to his style of play, and it could happen anytime. 


I don't put it on Brad to prevent that stuff.
Don't bother, it's just hindsight moaning.

Blaming Smart's injury on Stevens is asinine. No one could have predicted it, he would have almost certainly sat out the last game. Stevens probably just didn't want to have the starters go over a week without playing in a real game.

Lol "hindsight moaning." Let's take a look at the game thread, shall we?

Let's go C's!

While I would love to see another full game out of the main guys, I'm hoping that we limit some minutes to avoid any unnecessary injuries before going into the playoffs.

Great, Tatum injured and out for the game, though sounds more like a very precautionary thing.

I would be more than okay with us just sitting all the starters and letting the bench play the rest of the game.

Playoffs don't start for another week. Plenty of time for rest. Let's get this win tonight.

It's not just about rest, but avoiding unneeded injuries like this in a meaningless game.

Personally, I'd just take every starter out and roll with 10-15 on our bench  8)

Yeah, I'm not exactly sure why we continue to play our main guys, especially given our injury history over the past two years. Now tonight we've likely lost both Tatum and now Smart to injuries. Minor injuries, sure, but why even freaking take that risk when there's literally no benefit to it??

GD Brad and his dumbass decision-making... Why our guys are even playing in a meaningless game at the end of the season is beyond me. Has no qualms sitting Kyrie and Al in Brooklyn when we still are trying to secure HCA, yet as soon as we do secure it he plays everyone, leading to two of our starters getting hurt and leaving the game, with Smart maybe being out longer.

Just freaking dumb and totally indicative of his arbitrary and nonsensical decision-making this year.

And the fact that Brad put Smart back in there after originally going down is just insane. Like, what in the hell is the thought process there??
Wow. I’m not watching any longer, but Brad putting him in after the initial injury is astoundingly stupid

Please get the starters out...

And there's plenty more where that came from that I'm not including.

Yep, clearly just "hindsight moaning," even though most of us in the game thread were calling for resting players both before and during the game  ::) What's clear is that there's still blatant Brad apologism on this site, even after his horrendous year. Kind of amazing if you think about it.

Whatever crushes individuality is despotism, by whatever name it may be called and whether it professes to be enforcing the will of God or the injunctions of men.

Re: Smart out up to two rounds!
« Reply #42 on: April 10, 2019, 08:22:39 PM »

Offline PhoSita

  • NCE
  • Dennis Johnson
  • ******************
  • Posts: 18291
  • Tommy Points: 1682
As long as it means more minutes for Hayward, I'm cool with it.

If our chances in the playoffs come down to Marcus Smart, this roster was a giant failure anyways.

I mean, if the team was actually going to go on a deep playoff run, Smart is exactly the kind of key role player you need to make big plays in close games.


Didn't the Warriors' chances in 2015 come down to Andre Iguodala?

Wasn't James Posey crucial to the Celts' run in 2008?

Smart is a candidate for 1st Team All-Defense, so suggesting that losing him is not a big deal is kind of silly. 


But the Celts are not so close to real contention that Smart's contributions or lackthereof are likely to make all the difference.
You’ll have to excuse my lengthiness—the reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
- Mark Twain

Re: Smart out up to two rounds!
« Reply #43 on: April 10, 2019, 08:27:32 PM »

Online jpotter33

  • Bill Russell
  • ******************************
  • Posts: 30452
  • Tommy Points: 278
https://twitter.com/KeithSmithNBA/status/1116134945804693505?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1116134945804693505&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fbleacherreport.com%2Fboston-celtics

Quote
The Boston Celtics released an injury update on Marcus Smart. He has a partial avulsion of the his left oblique abdominal muscle off of his iliac crest.

Return to basketball activities in 4-6 weeks.

Yep, just about does it. Boggy is going to average 30+ on us. #fireBrad  >:(
Whatever crushes individuality is despotism, by whatever name it may be called and whether it professes to be enforcing the will of God or the injunctions of men.

Re: Smart out up to two rounds!
« Reply #44 on: April 10, 2019, 08:27:35 PM »

Offline philr13

  • Terry Rozier
  • Posts: 71
  • Tommy Points: 9
After watching the clip of the injury happening a few more times, it's easy to see why the staff thought it was a contusion rather than a tear until there was an actual scan done on Wednesday.

His collision with Vuc must have been in just the right place to damage the oblique where it attaches to the pelvis. It's not a tear from strain or over-use, but the result of a collision. It seems kind of unusual.

 

Hello! Guest

Welcome to the CelticsStrong Forums.

Community

Signup to win FREE tickets

* indicates required