The Ballstop Trio: Tatum, Rozier, Morris

[GreenCoffeeBean]

I’m a Tatum skeptic but do want to point out he’s made much bigger efforts to create offense for others in the last 2 weeks. His assists sort of reflect that. Defense is still atrocious.

[ozgod]

Let's try to make the data more meaningful then. I looked at % of shots taken after at least 7 dribbles. The % is out of the total shots taken by the player, so 50% would mean that half the shots the player took came after 7 dribbles. So it's trying to measure how much a player "dribbles the air out of the ball" before shooting. Here's the list in descending order. I only filtered for players who played at least 50 games.



If anyone wants it re-sorted I have the original query here

https://stats.nba.com/players/shots-dribbles/?Season=2018-19&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&DribbleRange=7%2B%20Dribbles&sort=FGA_FREQUENCY&dir=1&CF=GP*GE*50

Now if you look at Boston only clearly Kyrie and Terry are out in front.

How does dribbling a ball up the court have to play in those figures? For instance, if Kyrie dribbles the ball up court, sees an opening right away and takes it to the rim, but in dribbling the ball up the court he had 6 dribbles and then 3 more to go to the basket and shoot. Do those 6 dribbles count in the data?

I believe it counts in the Second Spectrum data, so pulling a rebound down and dribbled up the court in transition would count as an attempt with 7+ dribbles. I think what we're all looking for, to really make the data conclusive and meaningful, is # of dribbles taken in the half court offense. I'm sure that the teams have ways to exclude dribbles taken in the opposite court, or to exclude shots taken in the first 6 or so seconds of the shot clock, to get a better idea but those filters aren't available to us.

[GetLucky]

Let's try to make the data more meaningful then. I looked at % of shots taken after at least 7 dribbles. The % is out of the total shots taken by the player, so 50% would mean that half the shots the player took came after 7 dribbles. So it's trying to measure how much a player "dribbles the air out of the ball" before shooting. Here's the list in descending order. I only filtered for players who played at least 50 games.



If anyone wants it re-sorted I have the original query here

https://stats.nba.com/players/shots-dribbles/?Season=2018-19&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&DribbleRange=7%2B%20Dribbles&sort=FGA_FREQUENCY&dir=1&CF=GP*GE*50

Now if you look at Boston only clearly Kyrie and Terry are out in front.

How does dribbling a ball up the court have to play in those figures? For instance, if Kyrie dribbles the ball up court, sees an opening right away and takes it to the rim, but in dribbling the ball up the court he had 6 dribbles and then 3 more to go to the basket and shoot. Do those 6 dribbles count in the data?

I believe it counts in the Second Spectrum data, so pulling a rebound down and dribbled up the court in transition would count as an attempt with 7+ dribbles. I think what we're all looking for, to really make the data conclusive and meaningful, is # of dribbles taken in the half court offense. I'm sure that the teams have ways to exclude dribbles taken in the opposite court, or to exclude shots taken in the first 6 or so seconds of the shot clock, to get a better idea but those filters aren't available to us.

I would argue that those should be counted in the total. A player dribbling up the court and then shooting does without any of his teammates touching the ball stalls the offensive rhythm as much as, if not more so than, an iso play does. See the recent Charlotte game for an example. Kyrie totally screwed us by taking hero shots. I'm not opposed to him taking those shots at all in the last few possessions of a game, but up more than 1 possession with more than 2 minutes left just kills it.

[nickagneta]

Let's try to make the data more meaningful then. I looked at % of shots taken after at least 7 dribbles. The % is out of the total shots taken by the player, so 50% would mean that half the shots the player took came after 7 dribbles. So it's trying to measure how much a player "dribbles the air out of the ball" before shooting. Here's the list in descending order. I only filtered for players who played at least 50 games.



If anyone wants it re-sorted I have the original query here

https://stats.nba.com/players/shots-dribbles/?Season=2018-19&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&DribbleRange=7%2B%20Dribbles&sort=FGA_FREQUENCY&dir=1&CF=GP*GE*50

Now if you look at Boston only clearly Kyrie and Terry are out in front.

How does dribbling a ball up the court have to play in those figures? For instance, if Kyrie dribbles the ball up court, sees an opening right away and takes it to the rim, but in dribbling the ball up the court he had 6 dribbles and then 3 more to go to the basket and shoot. Do those 6 dribbles count in the data?

I believe it counts in the Second Spectrum data, so pulling a rebound down and dribbled up the court in transition would count as an attempt with 7+ dribbles. I think what we're all looking for, to really make the data conclusive and meaningful, is # of dribbles taken in the half court offense. I'm sure that the teams have ways to exclude dribbles taken in the opposite court, or to exclude shots taken in the first 6 or so seconds of the shot clock, to get a better idea but those filters aren't available to us.

I would argue that those should be counted in the total. A player dribbling up the court and then shooting does without any of his teammates touching the ball stalls the offensive rhythm as much as, if not more so than, an iso play does. See the recent Charlotte game for an example. Kyrie totally screwed us by taking hero shots. I'm not opposed to him taking those shots at all in the last few possessions of a game, but up more than 1 possession with more than 2 minutes left just kills it.

Sometimes yes, but sometimes it's just good offense. It's not as black and white as you make it.

If you get a rebound, push the ball, and go to the basket for a layup before the defense has time to set, that's good basketball. If you push it up court and your man collapses into the paint leaving you a three pointer without anyone near you, that's good basketball(if you are generally a player that can shoot a three over 35-36% or so). If you bring the ball up slowly, the defense sets, and you just dribble like crazy looking for an open shot, that's bad basketball.

[cman88]

Tatum is trending upwards. if both he/Hayward can play like they did last night we will be very hard to beat.

Morris and Rozier are issues though. Last night Gordon hayward whom was having an amazing game had 9 shots....Morris? 13 shots in only 24 minutes.

that needs to stop. The guy just chucks up shot after shot. It was okay early in the season when they were going in. But now its just a momentum killer.