Author Topic: Jazz ban 2nd fan who called Westbrook "boy"  (Read 1637 times)

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Re: Jazz ban 2nd fan who called Westbrook "boy"
« Reply #15 on: March 15, 2019, 06:50:02 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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The problem here is where is the line going to be drawn for what constitutes a racial slur?

If a fan called a player a banana is that racist? If could be argued so.

So I question where will the line be drawn here.

Where I come from the word "boo" haz always been attached to a larger word used to describe a peraon of color in a racist manner. So should we not boo anymore?

Again not agreeing with these fans...but...where is the line. It needs to be black or white otherwise personal bias will influence decisions
agreed with everything you said

To me it appears that any white straight male fan (especially southern) are targeted as "racist" no matter what they say.. Its Probably political retribution in my opinion.
I am sorry you feel this way but white, straight, southern accented men are not a segment of society being targeted for anything.

A white man in America calling a black male adult a boy is steeped in history as being a racist taunt. Hell, the US Supreme Court had to make a ruling on it.

This is not a case of trying to attack white, straight, southern accented, men's words, it is a case of removing a person using a racial taunt out of a building.

Re: Jazz ban 2nd fan who called Westbrook "boy"
« Reply #16 on: March 15, 2019, 07:05:15 PM »

Offline Sophomore

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Wow censorship

I suppose banning people for racist taunts is censorship, sure.
you don't think it's a slippery slope when the word boy is considered a racial slur?

If a black women called westbrook "boy," would she have also been banned?


Or was it determined the fan was racist because he was a straight white male with a southern accent?

I’m going to assume you don’t know the history. There is a long, long history of white people, both men and women, calling grown black men “boy” to demean them and them down to size.

But even if you don’t know the history, you have to consider all of what happened here.  The man was calling Westbrook “boy”, Westbrook told him to stop, the man continued.

He was deliberately provoking Westbrook. This wasn’t accidental or a fan who got surprised. He was trying to get under W’s skin.

To be honest, I’m pretty sure this fan knew what he was doing, what it expresses.  But even if you took race out of it, it would be pretty provocative. If you’re a man, I assume somebody doing that to you would make your blood rise.  Add race to it, and at some point the teams have to draw a line.

What if he said son instead of boy eith the same tone?

Does that get handled the same?

And if you are paying hundreds of dollars to support your team is it not ok to get engaged? To try and be a part of the win? Or should the fans act like golf fans.

And I wonder what would happen if someone in NYK called Hayward privileged? Or if they called him a cracker?

What about boogie cousins. Boogie is an south african racist slur for for black people? Should that be stopped?

Again, you are speculating that this man does not know the history of the word boy. I submit it’s pretty likely he does. I grew up in Worcester, and I knew from tv not to call a black man “boy”.  You certainly don’t know he’s innocent of that fact.  I hope you at least agree if he did know that it’s very much not ok.

Beyond that – it was clearly meant to be insulting and provoking. The fan got right in the player’s face and ignored a warning to stop. He was baiting him.

I don’t care if he paid thousands for that seat. If he’s injecting himself into the game like that he can be told to leave. I don’t want that when I come to the game and there’s a long line of people behind him who know how to behave like grownups who can take the seat from him.

Re: Jazz ban 2nd fan who called Westbrook "boy"
« Reply #17 on: March 15, 2019, 07:09:33 PM »

Online tazzmaniac

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Wow censorship

I suppose banning people for racist taunts is censorship, sure.

It's absolutely censorship. But it's legally protected censorship (no different than the censorship we have here). And simply the right thing to do.
Exactly.  Censorship has a negative connotation but it is often good.  People need to practice more self censorship.  The forgotten group in this is are all the well behaved fans who are subjected to the poor fan behavior too. 

Re: Jazz ban 2nd fan who called Westbrook "boy"
« Reply #18 on: March 15, 2019, 07:20:36 PM »

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The problem here is where is the line going to be drawn for what constitutes a racial slur?

If a fan called a player a banana is that racist? If could be argued so.

So I question where will the line be drawn here.

Where I come from the word "boo" haz always been attached to a larger word used to describe a peraon of color in a racist manner. So should we not boo anymore?

Again not agreeing with these fans...but...where is the line. It needs to be black or white otherwise personal bias will influence decisions
agreed with everything you said

To me it appears that any white straight male fan (especially southern) are targeted as "racist" no matter what they say.. Its Probably political retribution in my opinion.

Really?  I'm a straight white male fan and I've never even felt close to being targeted as racist... even when I still lived in the south.

What have you said that you felt like was interpreted as racist when you didn't mean to be?

Re: Jazz ban 2nd fan who called Westbrook "boy"
« Reply #19 on: March 15, 2019, 07:32:11 PM »

Offline CelticsElite

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Wow censorship

I suppose banning people for racist taunts is censorship, sure.
you don't think it's a slippery slope when the word boy is considered a racial slur?

If a black women called westbrook "boy," would she have also been banned?


Or was it determined the fan was racist because he was a straight white male with a southern accent?

I’m going to assume you don’t know the history. There is a long, long history of white people, both men and women, calling grown black men “boy” to demean them and them down to size.

But even if you don’t know the history, you have to consider all of what happened here.  The man was calling Westbrook “boy”, Westbrook told him to stop, the man continued.

He was deliberately provoking Westbrook. This wasn’t accidental or a fan who got surprised. He was trying to get under W’s skin.

To be honest, I’m pretty sure this fan knew what he was doing, what it expresses.  But even if you took race out of it, it would be pretty provocative. If you’re a man, I assume somebody doing that to you would make your blood rise.  Add race to it, and at some point the teams have to draw a line.

What if he said son instead of boy eith the same tone?

Does that get handled the same?

And if you are paying hundreds of dollars to support your team is it not ok to get engaged? To try and be a part of the win? Or should the fans act like golf fans.

And I wonder what would happen if someone in NYK called Hayward privileged? Or if they called him a cracker?

What about boogie cousins. Boogie is an south african racist slur for for black people? Should that be stopped?

Again, you are speculating that this man does not know the history of the word boy. I submit it’s pretty likely he does. I grew up in Worcester, and I knew from tv not to call a black man “boy”.  You certainly don’t know he’s innocent of that fact.  I hope you at least agree if he did know that it’s very much not ok.

Beyond that – it was clearly meant to be insulting and provoking. The fan got right in the player’s face and ignored a warning to stop. He was baiting him.

I don’t care if he paid thousands for that seat. If he’s injecting himself into the game like that he can be told to leave. I don’t want that when I come to the game and there’s a long line of people behind him who know how to behave like grownups who can take the seat from him.
If the word boy is so offensive, why is it on birth certificates? Why is it in baby showers? Why is it everywhere?

Its not a racial slur. Its never been a racial slur. It has no negative connotation whatsoever. Its a term southerners use to refer to someone young. That's it. It stops there. Race has nothing to do with it


The real racists are the ones attaching negative connotation to innocent terms

Re: Jazz ban 2nd fan who called Westbrook "boy"
« Reply #20 on: March 15, 2019, 07:34:01 PM »

Offline Silky

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Wow censorship

I suppose banning people for racist taunts is censorship, sure.
you don't think it's a slippery slope when the word boy is considered a racial slur?

If a black women called westbrook "boy," would she have also been banned?


Or was it determined the fan was racist because he was a straight white male with a southern accent?

I’m going to assume you don’t know the history. There is a long, long history of white people, both men and women, calling grown black men “boy” to demean them and them down to size.

But even if you don’t know the history, you have to consider all of what happened here.  The man was calling Westbrook “boy”, Westbrook told him to stop, the man continued.

He was deliberately provoking Westbrook. This wasn’t accidental or a fan who got surprised. He was trying to get under W’s skin.

To be honest, I’m pretty sure this fan knew what he was doing, what it expresses.  But even if you took race out of it, it would be pretty provocative. If you’re a man, I assume somebody doing that to you would make your blood rise.  Add race to it, and at some point the teams have to draw a line.

What if he said son instead of boy eith the same tone?

Does that get handled the same?

And if you are paying hundreds of dollars to support your team is it not ok to get engaged? To try and be a part of the win? Or should the fans act like golf fans.

And I wonder what would happen if someone in NYK called Hayward privileged? Or if they called him a cracker?

What about boogie cousins. Boogie is an south african racist slur for for black people? Should that be stopped?

Again, you are speculating that this man does not know the history of the word boy. I submit it’s pretty likely he does. I grew up in Worcester, and I knew from tv not to call a black man “boy”.  You certainly don’t know he’s innocent of that fact.  I hope you at least agree if he did know that it’s very much not ok.

Beyond that – it was clearly meant to be insulting and provoking. The fan got right in the player’s face and ignored a warning to stop. He was baiting him.

I don’t care if he paid thousands for that seat. If he’s injecting himself into the game like that he can be told to leave. I don’t want that when I come to the game and there’s a long line of people behind him who know how to behave like grownups who can take the seat from him.

no, I am not speculating the history of how that word had been used in some instances in the past.

But what we know for certain is that:

1) the man was trying to incite Westbrook to get him off his game
2) Yeah, calling a man a boy is always going to get under an Alpha types skin, no matter the color
3) fans wanting to be a part of the action has ALWAYS been a integral part of being a fan, it what makes a fan a fan.

we do not know for certainty that this was meant as a racial slur, as this term hasn't been used racially for a long time in relation to everyday vernacular, and instead has become an insult on ones manhood as opposed to ones race.


And I am only showing concern over the precedent that it sets, because in this day and age of sensitivity and political correctness (which to a certain sense I 100% agree with) it can very quickly get out of hand.

And I would argue that tone has as much to do with how something is interpreted than anything. If I called Westbrook "darlin" or "Princess" or "Little Lady" would I be banned as well?

If I offered him a banana Popsicle;e would I be banned?

What if I ate Fried Chicken courtside pregame and offered him some out of complete sincerity, would that be racist?

again I want it know that I am not trying to come off as a racist, merely trying to make a point that I think if the league teams are starting down this road that they are going to have to come up with a more strict set of rules/guidelines that govern both player and fan acions during the game....and perhaps stop serving booze, or put bustops around the player benches with music piped into them so that the interactions between player and fan are limited, because as long as you have 19000 people cheering for the home team the opposing team will always be villainized....its a mob mentality.
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Re: Jazz ban 2nd fan who called Westbrook "boy"
« Reply #21 on: March 15, 2019, 07:36:24 PM »

Offline Donoghus

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Wow censorship

I suppose banning people for racist taunts is censorship, sure.
you don't think it's a slippery slope when the word boy is considered a racial slur?

If a black women called westbrook "boy," would she have also been banned?


Or was it determined the fan was racist because he was a straight white male with a southern accent?

I’m going to assume you don’t know the history. There is a long, long history of white people, both men and women, calling grown black men “boy” to demean them and them down to size.

But even if you don’t know the history, you have to consider all of what happened here.  The man was calling Westbrook “boy”, Westbrook told him to stop, the man continued.

He was deliberately provoking Westbrook. This wasn’t accidental or a fan who got surprised. He was trying to get under W’s skin.

To be honest, I’m pretty sure this fan knew what he was doing, what it expresses.  But even if you took race out of it, it would be pretty provocative. If you’re a man, I assume somebody doing that to you would make your blood rise.  Add race to it, and at some point the teams have to draw a line.

What if he said son instead of boy eith the same tone?

Does that get handled the same?

And if you are paying hundreds of dollars to support your team is it not ok to get engaged? To try and be a part of the win? Or should the fans act like golf fans.

And I wonder what would happen if someone in NYK called Hayward privileged? Or if they called him a cracker?

What about boogie cousins. Boogie is an south african racist slur for for black people? Should that be stopped?

Again, you are speculating that this man does not know the history of the word boy. I submit it’s pretty likely he does. I grew up in Worcester, and I knew from tv not to call a black man “boy”.  You certainly don’t know he’s innocent of that fact.  I hope you at least agree if he did know that it’s very much not ok.

Beyond that – it was clearly meant to be insulting and provoking. The fan got right in the player’s face and ignored a warning to stop. He was baiting him.

I don’t care if he paid thousands for that seat. If he’s injecting himself into the game like that he can be told to leave. I don’t want that when I come to the game and there’s a long line of people behind him who know how to behave like grownups who can take the seat from him.
If the word boy is so offensive, why is it on birth certificates? Why is it in baby showers? Why is it everywhere?

Its not a racial slur. Its never been a racial slur. It has no negative connotation whatsoever. Its a term southerners use to refer to someone young. That's it. It stops there. Race has nothing to do with it


The real racists are the ones attaching negative connotation to innocent terms

It's real simple. It's called context.  If you can't see that, I don't know what to tell you.


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Re: Jazz ban 2nd fan who called Westbrook "boy"
« Reply #22 on: March 15, 2019, 07:41:27 PM »

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Wow censorship. The days of heckling are over.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/26273966/jazz-ban-2nd-fan-called-westbrook-boy

Racist **** banned for making racial slur directed at player. Fixed it for you.

Re: Jazz ban 2nd fan who called Westbrook "boy"
« Reply #23 on: March 15, 2019, 07:48:33 PM »

Offline Fan from VT

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Wow censorship

I suppose banning people for racist taunts is censorship, sure.
you don't think it's a slippery slope when the word boy is considered a racial slur?

If a black women called westbrook "boy," would she have also been banned?


Or was it determined the fan was racist because he was a straight white male with a southern accent?

I’m going to assume you don’t know the history. There is a long, long history of white people, both men and women, calling grown black men “boy” to demean them and them down to size.

But even if you don’t know the history, you have to consider all of what happened here.  The man was calling Westbrook “boy”, Westbrook told him to stop, the man continued.

He was deliberately provoking Westbrook. This wasn’t accidental or a fan who got surprised. He was trying to get under W’s skin.

To be honest, I’m pretty sure this fan knew what he was doing, what it expresses.  But even if you took race out of it, it would be pretty provocative. If you’re a man, I assume somebody doing that to you would make your blood rise.  Add race to it, and at some point the teams have to draw a line.

What if he said son instead of boy eith the same tone?

Does that get handled the same?

And if you are paying hundreds of dollars to support your team is it not ok to get engaged? To try and be a part of the win? Or should the fans act like golf fans.

And I wonder what would happen if someone in NYK called Hayward privileged? Or if they called him a cracker?

What about boogie cousins. Boogie is an south african racist slur for for black people? Should that be stopped?

Again, you are speculating that this man does not know the history of the word boy. I submit it’s pretty likely he does. I grew up in Worcester, and I knew from tv not to call a black man “boy”.  You certainly don’t know he’s innocent of that fact.  I hope you at least agree if he did know that it’s very much not ok.

Beyond that – it was clearly meant to be insulting and provoking. The fan got right in the player’s face and ignored a warning to stop. He was baiting him.

I don’t care if he paid thousands for that seat. If he’s injecting himself into the game like that he can be told to leave. I don’t want that when I come to the game and there’s a long line of people behind him who know how to behave like grownups who can take the seat from him.
If the word boy is so offensive, why is it on birth certificates? Why is it in baby showers? Why is it everywhere?

Its not a racial slur. Its never been a racial slur. It has no negative connotation whatsoever. Its a term southerners use to refer to someone young. That's it. It stops there. Race has nothing to do with it


The real racists are the ones attaching negative connotation to innocent terms

Not sure if serious or shameless troll.

Re: Jazz ban 2nd fan who called Westbrook "boy"
« Reply #24 on: March 15, 2019, 08:13:27 PM »

Offline ImShakHeIsShaq

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Wow censorship

I suppose banning people for racist taunts is censorship, sure.
you don't think it's a slippery slope when the word boy is considered a racial slur?

If a black women called westbrook "boy," would she have also been banned?


Or was it determined the fan was racist because he was a straight white male with a southern accent?

I’m going to assume you don’t know the history. There is a long, long history of white people, both men and women, calling grown black men “boy” to demean them and them down to size.

But even if you don’t know the history, you have to consider all of what happened here.  The man was calling Westbrook “boy”, Westbrook told him to stop, the man continued.

He was deliberately provoking Westbrook. This wasn’t accidental or a fan who got surprised. He was trying to get under W’s skin.

To be honest, I’m pretty sure this fan knew what he was doing, what it expresses.  But even if you took race out of it, it would be pretty provocative. If you’re a man, I assume somebody doing that to you would make your blood rise.  Add race to it, and at some point the teams have to draw a line.

What if he said son instead of boy eith the same tone?

Does that get handled the same?

And if you are paying hundreds of dollars to support your team is it not ok to get engaged? To try and be a part of the win? Or should the fans act like golf fans.

And I wonder what would happen if someone in NYK called Hayward privileged? Or if they called him a cracker?

What about boogie cousins. Boogie is an south african racist slur for for black people? Should that be stopped?

Again, you are speculating that this man does not know the history of the word boy. I submit it’s pretty likely he does. I grew up in Worcester, and I knew from tv not to call a black man “boy”.  You certainly don’t know he’s innocent of that fact.  I hope you at least agree if he did know that it’s very much not ok.

Beyond that – it was clearly meant to be insulting and provoking. The fan got right in the player’s face and ignored a warning to stop. He was baiting him.

I don’t care if he paid thousands for that seat. If he’s injecting himself into the game like that he can be told to leave. I don’t want that when I come to the game and there’s a long line of people behind him who know how to behave like grownups who can take the seat from him.
If the word boy is so offensive, why is it on birth certificates? Why is it in baby showers? Why is it everywhere?

Its not a racial slur. Its never been a racial slur. It has no negative connotation whatsoever. Its a term southerners use to refer to someone young. That's it. It stops there. Race has nothing to do with it


The real racists are the ones attaching negative connotation to innocent terms

Not sure if serious or shameless troll.

Don't know what the rules on calling people trolls/names are but I'd happily take this ban! It's clearly a troll and even though it's on purpose, there is ignorance attached to their soul like a tumor!
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Re: Jazz ban 2nd fan who called Westbrook "boy"
« Reply #25 on: March 15, 2019, 08:18:11 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Wow censorship

I suppose banning people for racist taunts is censorship, sure.
you don't think it's a slippery slope when the word boy is considered a racial slur?

If a black women called westbrook "boy," would she have also been banned?


Or was it determined the fan was racist because he was a straight white male with a southern accent?

I’m going to assume you don’t know the history. There is a long, long history of white people, both men and women, calling grown black men “boy” to demean them and them down to size.

But even if you don’t know the history, you have to consider all of what happened here.  The man was calling Westbrook “boy”, Westbrook told him to stop, the man continued.

He was deliberately provoking Westbrook. This wasn’t accidental or a fan who got surprised. He was trying to get under W’s skin.

To be honest, I’m pretty sure this fan knew what he was doing, what it expresses.  But even if you took race out of it, it would be pretty provocative. If you’re a man, I assume somebody doing that to you would make your blood rise.  Add race to it, and at some point the teams have to draw a line.

What if he said son instead of boy eith the same tone?

Does that get handled the same?

And if you are paying hundreds of dollars to support your team is it not ok to get engaged? To try and be a part of the win? Or should the fans act like golf fans.

And I wonder what would happen if someone in NYK called Hayward privileged? Or if they called him a cracker?

What about boogie cousins. Boogie is an south african racist slur for for black people? Should that be stopped?

Again, you are speculating that this man does not know the history of the word boy. I submit it’s pretty likely he does. I grew up in Worcester, and I knew from tv not to call a black man “boy”.  You certainly don’t know he’s innocent of that fact.  I hope you at least agree if he did know that it’s very much not ok.

Beyond that – it was clearly meant to be insulting and provoking. The fan got right in the player’s face and ignored a warning to stop. He was baiting him.

I don’t care if he paid thousands for that seat. If he’s injecting himself into the game like that he can be told to leave. I don’t want that when I come to the game and there’s a long line of people behind him who know how to behave like grownups who can take the seat from him.
If the word boy is so offensive, why is it on birth certificates? Why is it in baby showers? Why is it everywhere?

Its not a racial slur. Its never been a racial slur. It has no negative connotation whatsoever. Its a term southerners use to refer to someone young. That's it. It stops there. Race has nothing to do with it


The real racists are the ones attaching negative connotation to innocent terms
Actually, you are dead wrong. The US Court system has ruled that "boy" can be use in a racist epithet-like manner. Here, read this:

http://harvardlpr.com/2011/12/21/court-finally-says-boy-comments-are-racist/

Quote
The Eleventh Circuit Court of Appeals finally recognized that a supervisor’s use of the word ‘boy’ to refer to black employees is sufficient evidence of racism. It was the third time the court ruled on the case since a reprimand from the Supreme Court  for finding that ‘boy’ was not evidence of discrimination. Last week’s ruling overturned a three-judge panel’s 2010 decision rejecting the evidence as insufficient, even under the Court’s guidance: “Although . . . The disputed word will not always be evidence of racial animus, it does not follow that the word, standing alone, is always benign.” The Court said the meaning may depend on “context, inflection, tone of voice, local custom, and historical usage.”

Having grown up in the South, I am dumbfounded as to why it took the court so long to acknowledge that referring to a black man as “boy” is racist. Southerners have become accustomed to all manner of subtle racism, but there is nothing subtle about calling a black man “boy.” In an amicus brief, civil rights leaders presented historical evidence of the use of the word to subordinate and emasculate black men. The  brief stated, “If not a proxy for ‘n word’ it is at the very least a close cousin.” 

Re: Jazz ban 2nd fan who called Westbrook "boy"
« Reply #26 on: March 15, 2019, 08:31:45 PM »

Offline Sophomore

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Wow censorship

I suppose banning people for racist taunts is censorship, sure.
you don't think it's a slippery slope when the word boy is considered a racial slur?

If a black women called westbrook "boy," would she have also been banned?


Or was it determined the fan was racist because he was a straight white male with a southern accent?

I’m going to assume you don’t know the history. There is a long, long history of white people, both men and women, calling grown black men “boy” to demean them and them down to size.

But even if you don’t know the history, you have to consider all of what happened here.  The man was calling Westbrook “boy”, Westbrook told him to stop, the man continued.

He was deliberately provoking Westbrook. This wasn’t accidental or a fan who got surprised. He was trying to get under W’s skin.

To be honest, I’m pretty sure this fan knew what he was doing, what it expresses.  But even if you took race out of it, it would be pretty provocative. If you’re a man, I assume somebody doing that to you would make your blood rise.  Add race to it, and at some point the teams have to draw a line.

What if he said son instead of boy eith the same tone?

Does that get handled the same?

And if you are paying hundreds of dollars to support your team is it not ok to get engaged? To try and be a part of the win? Or should the fans act like golf fans.

And I wonder what would happen if someone in NYK called Hayward privileged? Or if they called him a cracker?

What about boogie cousins. Boogie is an south african racist slur for for black people? Should that be stopped?

Again, you are speculating that this man does not know the history of the word boy. I submit it’s pretty likely he does. I grew up in Worcester, and I knew from tv not to call a black man “boy”.  You certainly don’t know he’s innocent of that fact.  I hope you at least agree if he did know that it’s very much not ok.

Beyond that – it was clearly meant to be insulting and provoking. The fan got right in the player’s face and ignored a warning to stop. He was baiting him.

I don’t care if he paid thousands for that seat. If he’s injecting himself into the game like that he can be told to leave. I don’t want that when I come to the game and there’s a long line of people behind him who know how to behave like grownups who can take the seat from him.

no, I am not speculating the history of how that word had been used in some instances in the past.

But what we know for certain is that:

1) the man was trying to incite Westbrook to get him off his game
2) Yeah, calling a man a boy is always going to get under an Alpha types skin, no matter the color
3) fans wanting to be a part of the action has ALWAYS been a integral part of being a fan, it what makes a fan a fan.

we do not know for certainty that this was meant as a racial slur, as this term hasn't been used racially for a long time in relation to everyday vernacular, and instead has become an insult on ones manhood as opposed to ones race.


And I am only showing concern over the precedent that it sets, because in this day and age of sensitivity and political correctness (which to a certain sense I 100% agree with) it can very quickly get out of hand.

And I would argue that tone has as much to do with how something is interpreted than anything. If I called Westbrook "darlin" or "Princess" or "Little Lady" would I be banned as well?

If I offered him a banana Popsicle;e would I be banned?

What if I ate Fried Chicken courtside pregame and offered him some out of complete sincerity, would that be racist?

again I want it know that I am not trying to come off as a racist, merely trying to make a point that I think if the league teams are starting down this road that they are going to have to come up with a more strict set of rules/guidelines that govern both player and fan acions during the game....and perhaps stop serving booze, or put bustops around the player benches with music piped into them so that the interactions between player and fan are limited, because as long as you have 19000 people cheering for the home team the opposing team will always be villainized....its a mob mentality.
“this term hasn't been used racially for a long time in relation to everyday vernacular”

That’s nonsense. Adults know what it means. And the context doesn’t suggest any innocence.

You are looking at this 100% from the fan’s perspective and saying we have to give him the benefit of every doubt. We don’t.





Re: Jazz ban 2nd fan who called Westbrook "boy"
« Reply #27 on: March 15, 2019, 08:32:52 PM »

Offline wiley

  • Ray Allen
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  • Posts: 3604
  • Tommy Points: 275
Quote
Wow censorship

I suppose banning people for racist taunts is censorship, sure.
you don't think it's a slippery slope when the word boy is considered a racial slur?

If a black women called westbrook "boy," would she have also been banned?


Or was it determined the fan was racist because he was a straight white male with a southern accent?

I’m going to assume you don’t know the history. There is a long, long history of white people, both men and women, calling grown black men “boy” to demean them and them down to size.

But even if you don’t know the history, you have to consider all of what happened here.  The man was calling Westbrook “boy”, Westbrook told him to stop, the man continued.

He was deliberately provoking Westbrook. This wasn’t accidental or a fan who got surprised. He was trying to get under W’s skin.

To be honest, I’m pretty sure this fan knew what he was doing, what it expresses.  But even if you took race out of it, it would be pretty provocative. If you’re a man, I assume somebody doing that to you would make your blood rise.  Add race to it, and at some point the teams have to draw a line.

What if he said son instead of boy eith the same tone?

Does that get handled the same?

And if you are paying hundreds of dollars to support your team is it not ok to get engaged? To try and be a part of the win? Or should the fans act like golf fans.

And I wonder what would happen if someone in NYK called Hayward privileged? Or if they called him a cracker?

What about boogie cousins. Boogie is an south african racist slur for for black people? Should that be stopped?

Again, you are speculating that this man does not know the history of the word boy. I submit it’s pretty likely he does. I grew up in Worcester, and I knew from tv not to call a black man “boy”.  You certainly don’t know he’s innocent of that fact.  I hope you at least agree if he did know that it’s very much not ok.

Beyond that – it was clearly meant to be insulting and provoking. The fan got right in the player’s face and ignored a warning to stop. He was baiting him.

I don’t care if he paid thousands for that seat. If he’s injecting himself into the game like that he can be told to leave. I don’t want that when I come to the game and there’s a long line of people behind him who know how to behave like grownups who can take the seat from him.

no, I am not speculating the history of how that word had been used in some instances in the past.

But what we know for certain is that:

1) the man was trying to incite Westbrook to get him off his game
2) Yeah, calling a man a boy is always going to get under an Alpha types skin, no matter the color
3) fans wanting to be a part of the action has ALWAYS been a integral part of being a fan, it what makes a fan a fan.

we do not know for certainty that this was meant as a racial slur, as this term hasn't been used racially for a long time in relation to everyday vernacular, and instead has become an insult on ones manhood as opposed to ones race.


And I am only showing concern over the precedent that it sets, because in this day and age of sensitivity and political correctness (which to a certain sense I 100% agree with) it can very quickly get out of hand.

And I would argue that tone has as much to do with how something is interpreted than anything. If I called Westbrook "darlin" or "Princess" or "Little Lady" would I be banned as well?

If I offered him a banana Popsicle;e would I be banned?

What if I ate Fried Chicken courtside pregame and offered him some out of complete sincerity, would that be racist?

again I want it know that I am not trying to come off as a racist, merely trying to make a point that I think if the league teams are starting down this road that they are going to have to come up with a more strict set of rules/guidelines that govern both player and fan acions during the game....and perhaps stop serving booze, or put bustops around the player benches with music piped into them so that the interactions between player and fan are limited, because as long as you have 19000 people cheering for the home team the opposing team will always be villainized....its a mob mentality.

Regarding the bolded above:
300 years plus of slavery and continued racism comes with a certain price tag attached.  This is not a new thing where "boy" is not used by whites talking to black men, this is a very old thing, that I'm surprised you didn't know about.  In any case, you therefore don't need to worry about this setting a precedent.  It's been a precedent for longer than I've been alive (I'm 52). 

Also, the stadium is owned by...the Jazz owners, I assume. They can do what they want.  If you want to own your own stadium and sports team, you're free to allow white patrons to call black players "boy", but very soon no one of any color will show up for the games.  Same goes for a bar you own.  If you want a mixed crowd where everyone feels welcome, I recommend your bouncer not allow this kind of language. 

Those are the facts as they've been for a very long time.  No new precedent to worry about.

By the way, there are no players, black or white, who would tolerate someone repeatedly yelling "boy" at them.  A problem would occur. Security would be called.  The racist aspect here just makes it all the worse.

Re: Jazz ban 2nd fan who called Westbrook "boy"
« Reply #28 on: March 15, 2019, 09:21:04 PM »

Offline Silky

  • Al Horford
  • Posts: 684
  • Tommy Points: 42
Quote
Wow censorship

I suppose banning people for racist taunts is censorship, sure.
you don't think it's a slippery slope when the word boy is considered a racial slur?

If a black women called westbrook "boy," would she have also been banned?


Or was it determined the fan was racist because he was a straight white male with a southern accent?

I’m going to assume you don’t know the history. There is a long, long history of white people, both men and women, calling grown black men “boy” to demean them and them down to size.

But even if you don’t know the history, you have to consider all of what happened here.  The man was calling Westbrook “boy”, Westbrook told him to stop, the man continued.

He was deliberately provoking Westbrook. This wasn’t accidental or a fan who got surprised. He was trying to get under W’s skin.

To be honest, I’m pretty sure this fan knew what he was doing, what it expresses.  But even if you took race out of it, it would be pretty provocative. If you’re a man, I assume somebody doing that to you would make your blood rise.  Add race to it, and at some point the teams have to draw a line.

What if he said son instead of boy eith the same tone?

Does that get handled the same?

And if you are paying hundreds of dollars to support your team is it not ok to get engaged? To try and be a part of the win? Or should the fans act like golf fans.

And I wonder what would happen if someone in NYK called Hayward privileged? Or if they called him a cracker?

What about boogie cousins. Boogie is an south african racist slur for for black people? Should that be stopped?

Again, you are speculating that this man does not know the history of the word boy. I submit it’s pretty likely he does. I grew up in Worcester, and I knew from tv not to call a black man “boy”.  You certainly don’t know he’s innocent of that fact.  I hope you at least agree if he did know that it’s very much not ok.

Beyond that – it was clearly meant to be insulting and provoking. The fan got right in the player’s face and ignored a warning to stop. He was baiting him.

I don’t care if he paid thousands for that seat. If he’s injecting himself into the game like that he can be told to leave. I don’t want that when I come to the game and there’s a long line of people behind him who know how to behave like grownups who can take the seat from him.

no, I am not speculating the history of how that word had been used in some instances in the past.

But what we know for certain is that:

1) the man was trying to incite Westbrook to get him off his game
2) Yeah, calling a man a boy is always going to get under an Alpha types skin, no matter the color
3) fans wanting to be a part of the action has ALWAYS been a integral part of being a fan, it what makes a fan a fan.

we do not know for certainty that this was meant as a racial slur, as this term hasn't been used racially for a long time in relation to everyday vernacular, and instead has become an insult on ones manhood as opposed to ones race.


And I am only showing concern over the precedent that it sets, because in this day and age of sensitivity and political correctness (which to a certain sense I 100% agree with) it can very quickly get out of hand.

And I would argue that tone has as much to do with how something is interpreted than anything. If I called Westbrook "darlin" or "Princess" or "Little Lady" would I be banned as well?

If I offered him a banana Popsicle;e would I be banned?

What if I ate Fried Chicken courtside pregame and offered him some out of complete sincerity, would that be racist?

again I want it know that I am not trying to come off as a racist, merely trying to make a point that I think if the league teams are starting down this road that they are going to have to come up with a more strict set of rules/guidelines that govern both player and fan acions during the game....and perhaps stop serving booze, or put bustops around the player benches with music piped into them so that the interactions between player and fan are limited, because as long as you have 19000 people cheering for the home team the opposing team will always be villainized....its a mob mentality.

Regarding the bolded above:
300 years plus of slavery and continued racism comes with a certain price tag attached.  This is not a new thing where "boy" is not used by whites talking to black men, this is a very old thing, that I'm surprised you didn't know about.  In any case, you therefore don't need to worry about this setting a precedent.  It's been a precedent for longer than I've been alive (I'm 52). 

Also, the stadium is owned by...the Jazz owners, I assume. They can do what they want.  If you want to own your own stadium and sports team, you're free to allow white patrons to call black players "boy", but very soon no one of any color will show up for the games.  Same goes for a bar you own.  If you want a mixed crowd where everyone feels welcome, I recommend your bouncer not allow this kind of language. 

Those are the facts as they've been for a very long time.  No new precedent to worry about.

By the way, there are no players, black or white, who would tolerate someone repeatedly yelling "boy" at them.  A problem would occur. Security would be called.  The racist aspect here just makes it all the worse.

I dont disagree with what you posted

But where is the line drawn. Cause there has to be a line.

Many things can be construed as racist of put in a certain connotation.

So therefore do we need to govern the connotations or tones? Or just the words?

Should players be held accountable if they swear on the court? What if they call each other the n word?

There now has to be a guidelines so to speak, so basically its a mandate on speach and tone itself.

And who chooses what words are not allowed? And if those word are replaced who updates the list?

I get that boy was used in a derrogatory way in the past, and still is, but I would argue that it was used against more than just black folks.

Even now if you look up racial slurs you probably arent finding boy on alot of them as it is more immasculating than racist...imo... But language does change. Look at the female dog word and how its usage has changed

I am sure there is alot of spelling errors in my post but im tired amd have fat thumbs on thses tine phone keyboards.

Thisbhas been a nice debate everyone fyi. Unlike other boards eveyone jas been completely respectful of different opinions and thoughts and no disrespect lobbied against them so much better than some other places I have been.

So cheers to that amd good night
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Re: Jazz ban 2nd fan who called Westbrook "boy"
« Reply #29 on: March 15, 2019, 09:22:07 PM »

Offline moiso

  • Paul Silas
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  • Tommy Points: 361
I wonder about the acceptability of the term “white boy” if it’s used in a nasty way toward someone like Hayward.  It seems derived from the same kind of “boy” that got the fan banned.  Also, IDs aren’t checked when you enter arenas.  Unless the guy had season tickets, how in the world is he not going to be able to get back in the arena at some point?

 

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