Author Topic: Patriots 2019 Offseason  (Read 2234 times)

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Re: Patriots 2019 Offseason
« Reply #30 on: March 11, 2019, 07:36:12 PM »

Offline BitterJim

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How are some of these teams (example: Rams, Lions, Eagles, etc.) able to just throw money and make splashes through signings/trades almost yearly yet the Pats seem to be cap-stricken  :o  :P

Like some of these guys we know aren't worth the massive contracts they get but you see some of the usual teams make those deals (as if cap mode is off like Madden lol)

Anyways, Humphries was a potential WR target but he signed with TEN for 4/36M. Guessing we'll do a lot of our retooling through the Draft and cheaper signings going forward, which is fine given our limited cap space and also other holes to fill and some other players to re-sign (Gostkowski, JMac, Patterson, etc.)

Ignoring big-money FAs and relying on cost-controlled draft picks and low-money signings seems to be Belichick's MO. Hard to criticize it given the results
I'm bitter.

Re: Patriots 2019 Offseason
« Reply #31 on: March 11, 2019, 07:38:48 PM »

Offline BitterJim

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Per ESPN's Mike Reiss:

Quote
With Patriots DE Trey Flowers intending to sign with the Lions on a five-year deal that is expected to average around $16-17 million per season, it reflects how the market pushed things to a point where New England wasn't comfortable going. In that sense, it is a similar situation to what unfolded last offseason with OT Nate Solder. The Patriots would have liked to keep Flowers, but they seldom stray from their financial discipline, which is a philosophy that has worked well for them. The trade acquisition of Michael Bennett will help soften the blow of Flowers' departure, while third-year DE Deatrich Wise Jr. could be primed for an expanded role after playing 54 percent of the defensive snaps in 2017 and 42 percent of the defensive snaps in 2018. Patriots defensive ends currently under contract for 2019: Bennett, Wise, Adrian Clayborn, Derek Rivers, Keionta Davis, Ufomba Kamalu and Trent Harris.

His departure was pretty much expected, and getting Bennett should make up for it (for this season, at least), but it's still a bummer that New England still pretty much refuses to pay for premium defensive ends/pass rushers. It would be nice to have one of those types while they're in their prime.

I think the only way we'll ever get a top DE is if one falls into our lap in the draft
I'm bitter.

Re: Patriots 2019 Offseason
« Reply #32 on: March 11, 2019, 07:44:45 PM »

Offline rocknrollforyoursoul

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Per ESPN's Mike Reiss:

Quote
With Patriots DE Trey Flowers intending to sign with the Lions on a five-year deal that is expected to average around $16-17 million per season, it reflects how the market pushed things to a point where New England wasn't comfortable going. In that sense, it is a similar situation to what unfolded last offseason with OT Nate Solder. The Patriots would have liked to keep Flowers, but they seldom stray from their financial discipline, which is a philosophy that has worked well for them. The trade acquisition of Michael Bennett will help soften the blow of Flowers' departure, while third-year DE Deatrich Wise Jr. could be primed for an expanded role after playing 54 percent of the defensive snaps in 2017 and 42 percent of the defensive snaps in 2018. Patriots defensive ends currently under contract for 2019: Bennett, Wise, Adrian Clayborn, Derek Rivers, Keionta Davis, Ufomba Kamalu and Trent Harris.

His departure was pretty much expected, and getting Bennett should make up for it (for this season, at least), but it's still a bummer that New England still pretty much refuses to pay for premium defensive ends/pass rushers. It would be nice to have one of those types while they're in their prime.

I think the only way we'll ever get a top DE is if one falls into our lap in the draft

You're probably right. My dream of the Pats having a dominant DE will probably never happen as long as Belichick is coach. Of course, I'd rather have all of the Super Bowl wins than a dominant DE, but still, it would be nice to have that.

How are some of these teams (example: Rams, Lions, Eagles, etc.) able to just throw money and make splashes through signings/trades almost yearly yet the Pats seem to be cap-stricken  :o  :P

Like some of these guys we know aren't worth the massive contracts they get but you see some of the usual teams make those deals (as if cap mode is off like Madden lol)

Anyways, Humphries was a potential WR target but he signed with TEN for 4/36M. Guessing we'll do a lot of our retooling through the Draft and cheaper signings going forward, which is fine given our limited cap space and also other holes to fill and some other players to re-sign (Gostkowski, JMac, Patterson, etc.)

Ignoring big-money FAs and relying on cost-controlled draft picks and low-money signings seems to be Belichick's MO. Hard to criticize it given the results

It's totally his MO. And it's hard to argue with that, given the results. Though I do think it's fair to ask if New England could've won even MORE Super Bowls if they'd more often had, say, a Randy Moss type at receiver, or a Jason Pierre-Paul type at DE.
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Re: Patriots 2019 Offseason
« Reply #33 on: March 11, 2019, 07:55:16 PM »

Offline Fan from VT

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How are some of these teams (example: Rams, Lions, Eagles, etc.) able to just throw money and make splashes through signings/trades almost yearly yet the Pats seem to be cap-stricken  :o  :P

Like some of these guys we know aren't worth the massive contracts they get but you see some of the usual teams make those deals (as if cap mode is off like Madden lol)

Anyways, Humphries was a potential WR target but he signed with TEN for 4/36M. Guessing we'll do a lot of our retooling through the Draft and cheaper signings going forward, which is fine given our limited cap space and also other holes to fill and some other players to re-sign (Gostkowski, JMac, Patterson, etc.)

A lot of it is because many these teams defer a lot of the cap hits and then pay the price later during a rebuild; the pats haven't had a dead money rebuild since like 2001. Constant contention.

Second piece is that, while Brady is clearly the greatest, there is a lot of luxury in paying a rookie QB (eagles, Seattle, Rams, dallas, etc); they all had the luxury of signing free agents while paying qbs low money for 4+ years. Don't get me wrong, I'd pay Brady every penny he's earned, but ~ 20 million a year every year for a while does take up space, and puts some limits on cash elsewhere. And other teams are not unlimited; I don't think the Rams are keeping Suh; Oakland traded Mak last year which is why they have space this year, etc.

Another big piece is that the patriots really try not to have a top heavy roster. They tend to spread out the money, such that they generally have a deep team of all middle class players with some key highly paid guys, rather than a small elite portion and a lot of major flaws. It's not as sexy, but probably makes sense in a game that has, what, 46 players on game day, with 11 players on the field at a time and a high rate of injuries. I mean, they lost patrick chung during the superbowl last year. What if they had lost Earl Thomas (or similar type) and had to fill in some scrub?

Re: Patriots 2019 Offseason
« Reply #34 on: March 11, 2019, 08:00:28 PM »

Offline Fan from VT

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Per ESPN's Mike Reiss:

Quote
With Patriots DE Trey Flowers intending to sign with the Lions on a five-year deal that is expected to average around $16-17 million per season, it reflects how the market pushed things to a point where New England wasn't comfortable going. In that sense, it is a similar situation to what unfolded last offseason with OT Nate Solder. The Patriots would have liked to keep Flowers, but they seldom stray from their financial discipline, which is a philosophy that has worked well for them. The trade acquisition of Michael Bennett will help soften the blow of Flowers' departure, while third-year DE Deatrich Wise Jr. could be primed for an expanded role after playing 54 percent of the defensive snaps in 2017 and 42 percent of the defensive snaps in 2018. Patriots defensive ends currently under contract for 2019: Bennett, Wise, Adrian Clayborn, Derek Rivers, Keionta Davis, Ufomba Kamalu and Trent Harris.

His departure was pretty much expected, and getting Bennett should make up for it (for this season, at least), but it's still a bummer that New England still pretty much refuses to pay for premium defensive ends/pass rushers. It would be nice to have one of those types while they're in their prime.

I think the only way we'll ever get a top DE is if one falls into our lap in the draft

Yeah, the Pats do spend draft capital on them, not long term big money. Seymour 6th overall, Chandler Jones 21st overall. Flowers was drafted.

I think part of it is how different NFL is from NBA for many reasons. First, players are older when they enter the league. This, plus the more aggressive nature of the game plus the different physical demands (carrying more body weight, etc) lead to shorter careers, especially in some of the defensive positions.


This is also supposedly an incredibly deep draft in terms of defensive line and defensive end in particular, so they may draft some support there.

Re: Patriots 2019 Offseason
« Reply #35 on: March 11, 2019, 08:05:28 PM »

Offline Fan from VT

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Per ESPN's Mike Reiss:

Quote
With Patriots DE Trey Flowers intending to sign with the Lions on a five-year deal that is expected to average around $16-17 million per season, it reflects how the market pushed things to a point where New England wasn't comfortable going. In that sense, it is a similar situation to what unfolded last offseason with OT Nate Solder. The Patriots would have liked to keep Flowers, but they seldom stray from their financial discipline, which is a philosophy that has worked well for them. The trade acquisition of Michael Bennett will help soften the blow of Flowers' departure, while third-year DE Deatrich Wise Jr. could be primed for an expanded role after playing 54 percent of the defensive snaps in 2017 and 42 percent of the defensive snaps in 2018. Patriots defensive ends currently under contract for 2019: Bennett, Wise, Adrian Clayborn, Derek Rivers, Keionta Davis, Ufomba Kamalu and Trent Harris.

His departure was pretty much expected, and getting Bennett should make up for it (for this season, at least), but it's still a bummer that New England still pretty much refuses to pay for premium defensive ends/pass rushers. It would be nice to have one of those types while they're in their prime.

I think the only way we'll ever get a top DE is if one falls into our lap in the draft

You're probably right. My dream of the Pats having a dominant DE will probably never happen as long as Belichick is coach. Of course, I'd rather have all of the Super Bowl wins than a dominant DE, but still, it would be nice to have that.

How are some of these teams (example: Rams, Lions, Eagles, etc.) able to just throw money and make splashes through signings/trades almost yearly yet the Pats seem to be cap-stricken  :o  :P

Like some of these guys we know aren't worth the massive contracts they get but you see some of the usual teams make those deals (as if cap mode is off like Madden lol)

Anyways, Humphries was a potential WR target but he signed with TEN for 4/36M. Guessing we'll do a lot of our retooling through the Draft and cheaper signings going forward, which is fine given our limited cap space and also other holes to fill and some other players to re-sign (Gostkowski, JMac, Patterson, etc.)

Ignoring big-money FAs and relying on cost-controlled draft picks and low-money signings seems to be Belichick's MO. Hard to criticize it given the results

It's totally his MO. And it's hard to argue with that, given the results. Though I do think it's fair to ask if New England could've won even MORE Super Bowls if they'd more often had, say, a Randy Moss type at receiver, or a Jason Pierre-Paul type at DE.

I doubt it. The Eagles, for example, were in the NFC championship game every year for a while, managed their cap well, and were criticized for not going "all in." Then they did, with Kearse and Owens, made the SB, and subsequently had several  unremarkable seasons before the current Wentz/Foles era. Had the pats been investing in more Moss types at "fair market" value, they likely would have had a few .500 season when the cap caught up to them or they had to rely on too many replacement level players.

Re: Patriots 2019 Offseason
« Reply #36 on: March 11, 2019, 08:39:48 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Per ESPN's Mike Reiss:

Quote
With Patriots DE Trey Flowers intending to sign with the Lions on a five-year deal that is expected to average around $16-17 million per season, it reflects how the market pushed things to a point where New England wasn't comfortable going. In that sense, it is a similar situation to what unfolded last offseason with OT Nate Solder. The Patriots would have liked to keep Flowers, but they seldom stray from their financial discipline, which is a philosophy that has worked well for them. The trade acquisition of Michael Bennett will help soften the blow of Flowers' departure, while third-year DE Deatrich Wise Jr. could be primed for an expanded role after playing 54 percent of the defensive snaps in 2017 and 42 percent of the defensive snaps in 2018. Patriots defensive ends currently under contract for 2019: Bennett, Wise, Adrian Clayborn, Derek Rivers, Keionta Davis, Ufomba Kamalu and Trent Harris.

His departure was pretty much expected, and getting Bennett should make up for it (for this season, at least), but it's still a bummer that New England still pretty much refuses to pay for premium defensive ends/pass rushers. It would be nice to have one of those types while they're in their prime.

I think the only way we'll ever get a top DE is if one falls into our lap in the draft

You're probably right. My dream of the Pats having a dominant DE will probably never happen as long as Belichick is coach. Of course, I'd rather have all of the Super Bowl wins than a dominant DE, but still, it would be nice to have that.

How are some of these teams (example: Rams, Lions, Eagles, etc.) able to just throw money and make splashes through signings/trades almost yearly yet the Pats seem to be cap-stricken  :o  :P

Like some of these guys we know aren't worth the massive contracts they get but you see some of the usual teams make those deals (as if cap mode is off like Madden lol)

Anyways, Humphries was a potential WR target but he signed with TEN for 4/36M. Guessing we'll do a lot of our retooling through the Draft and cheaper signings going forward, which is fine given our limited cap space and also other holes to fill and some other players to re-sign (Gostkowski, JMac, Patterson, etc.)

Ignoring big-money FAs and relying on cost-controlled draft picks and low-money signings seems to be Belichick's MO. Hard to criticize it given the results

It's totally his MO. And it's hard to argue with that, given the results. Though I do think it's fair to ask if New England could've won even MORE Super Bowls if they'd more often had, say, a Randy Moss type at receiver, or a Jason Pierre-Paul type at DE.

I doubt it. The Eagles, for example, were in the NFC championship game every year for a while, managed their cap well, and were criticized for not going "all in." Then they did, with Kearse and Owens, made the SB, and subsequently had several  unremarkable seasons before the current Wentz/Foles era. Had the pats been investing in more Moss types at "fair market" value, they likely would have had a few .500 season when the cap caught up to them or they had to rely on too many replacement level players.
I agree. Also, the Pats have been to 9 SuperBowls in 18 seasons. Not sure adding one or three more top end and highly paid stars over that time is going to give a team as almost impossible successful as Pat's any more chances at winning.

Re: Patriots 2019 Offseason
« Reply #37 on: March 12, 2019, 05:15:00 PM »

Offline Fan from VT

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Quote
[UPDATE] Flowers is getting a 5-year, $90 million deal with $56 million guaranteed. That’s a lot of money.

Great player, great memories here. That is pricey though, wow.

https://www.patspulpit.com/2019/3/11/18260521/2019-nfl-free-agency-patriots-dl-trey-flowers-expected-to-sign-with-the-lions

Re: Patriots 2019 Offseason
« Reply #38 on: March 12, 2019, 05:34:17 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Barnwell on ESPN is giving out grades for the free agent signings and trades being made. The vast majority of the grades thus far have been C or lower. A few B's and I think a saw one or two B+s but not one grade above B+, that I can remember.

Trey Flowers signing...C+. Gotta be the money. Way too much.

Re: Patriots 2019 Offseason
« Reply #39 on: March 12, 2019, 07:28:52 PM »

Online Roy H.

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Cordelle Patterson to Chicago.

2 years, $10 million.


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Re: Patriots 2019 Offseason
« Reply #40 on: March 12, 2019, 07:33:31 PM »

Offline gouki88

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Cordelle Patterson to Chicago.

2 years, $10 million.
Dang, liked him as a fun Swiss Army Knife KR / WR / RB. Ah well.

Re: Patriots 2019 Offseason
« Reply #41 on: March 12, 2019, 07:47:56 PM »

Online Csfan1984

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The early market is always crazy. When this dies-down we might get some Pats signings. I would also expect some teams that sign players will have former starters available for trade that the Pats might go for.
Trade deadline mock team: Celtics,
Irving, Rozier, Wanna
Smart, Robinson, Dozier
Tatum, Morris, Semi
Griffin, Theis, Yab
Horford, Baynes, Williams

Re: Patriots 2019 Offseason
« Reply #42 on: March 12, 2019, 08:03:02 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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My main concern for this team is left tackle. Brown was great last year. I really hope we don't enter the season with the rookie Wynn, coming off an Achilles injury, being the answer at left tackle to watch Brady's blind side.

Re: Patriots 2019 Offseason
« Reply #43 on: March 12, 2019, 08:04:24 PM »

Online Donoghus

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OBJ traded to the Browns.

Wow.

Quote
Giants agree to trade Odell Beckham to Browns
Posted by Michael David Smith on March 12, 2019, 8:00 PM EDT

Getty Images
The bombshell trade is upon us: Odell Beckham Jr. is heading to Cleveland.

The Giants have agreed to trade Beckham to the Browns, Mike Garafolo of NFL Network reports. There was no immediate word on the compensation involved.

A potential Beckham trade has been discussed all offseason, but it was never clear just how close a deal was. There were swirling rumors about the Browns being the destination for Beckham, and it turns out those rumors were on the money.

Beckham is close friends with Browns wide receiver Jarvis Landry, and the two of them will be thrilled to be playing together. And Baker Mayfield will be thrilled to now have perhaps the best wide receiver corps in the NFL.

But Browns fans will be thrilled most of all. After their promising season in 2018, they’ve now made the most aggressive move of the offseason. This is a strong statement that these are not the same old Browns. These are the new Browns, and they’re contenders.


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Re: Patriots 2019 Offseason
« Reply #44 on: March 12, 2019, 08:04:44 PM »

Online Roy H.

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Wow. Odell Beckham to the Browns.


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