NBA submits proposal to lower draft age limit to 18

[Moranis]

The NBA needs to continue to develop the G-League into a legitimate developmental minor league.   Players need to be encouraged to consider professional developmental paths either through the G-League or through international pro-leagues instead of putting their careers at risk for the NCAA exploitation machine.

And the NBA needs to keep working towards having developmental roster spots and appropriate contracts for that.

Basically, the NBA needs to continue to wean itself off from depending on the NCAA for player development and take full control of it's talent development process the way baseball and hockey do.   Treat these young men as professionals who want to pursue their trade as soon as they are ready.

even a year of Duke where you pay for nothing, get world class coaching and exposure, get world class trainers and training facilities, and where you are on television all the time is worth far more than any player at that age could reasonably make for 1 year anywhere other than the NBA. Just take someone like Jeremy Tyler. Went overseas for 140k a year flamed out there, couldn't play at Louisville, and ended up as a minimum salary player in the NBA for just 3 years.  Had he gone to Louisville I'm sure it would have been better for him.

I imagine Tyler's talent level had more to do with him not making it than anything else.  And it's not like there aren't plenty of one-and-dones that flame out as well.  It might be interesting to do a comparison of success rates for players coming from high school vs. spending one year in D1.  As far as exposure goes, Zion was a star before he ever stepped foot on campus.

Yeah, Tyler just sucked. Averaged 2 points and 2 rebounds a game in Israel, and around 10 points and 7 rebounds in Japan. Not like he was ever performing well against less than elite talent

Europe stats are a lot different though.  Brandon Jennings averaged 5.5 points in Europe. Until he got hurt he never averagd less than 15.4 ppg in the NBA.

I fully realise that. He still averaged terrible stats, and didn’t manage to dominate Japan like he should’ve, if he was that talented.

he was 17 in Europe and 18 in Japan though.  Porzingis averaged like 2 5 ppg when he was 17/18 when he was in Europe also.  It is just a different game, especially for a young American who everyone knows isn't staying long term thus the teams have no incentive to play or develop the players over others.

[johnnygreen]

Part of this goes back to what Condoleezza Rice mentioned about ending the one and done players in the NCAA and the charade that it is. For every Zion Williamson, there is a Trae Young that greatly benefited from his one year in school. I don’t know if Young even gets a look out of high school from an NBA team.

Personally, I hate the idea that the NCAA athletes should be paid. If they’re on a full scholarship, then they’re basically already getting paid. For instance, Duke’s tuition is around $56,000 a year and when you add room and board and books, it comes to around $75,000. On top of that, these athletes aren’t paying for the personal trainers, the cost to use the training facilities, or the medical costs.

Maybe the league can give NBA teams the option of sending players directly drafted out of high school or with only one year in college, to their respective G-League team and that service time not be counted against their rookie contract. One of the big downsides to drafting a high school player is that by the time their ready to contribute, the rookie deal is about up and the team has to decide if the player is worth a max deal before deserving it. For high school players, have the G-League time limited to two years before the NBA contact kicks in, while the one year college player can be limited to just one year of  G-League time. Obviously, these players will only go to the G-League if necessary. Players like LeBron that are ready to play in the NBA directly out of high school are extremely rare.

[mmmmm]

The goal should be to remove the current hypocrisy that arises from the totally made-up constraints to practicing their trade that enables the NCAA to exploit these young men.

If a player's intent is to pursue a career as a professional athlete (which is a form of entertainer) he should not be forced to play for free for someone who is profiting off of his efforts and to pretend to be a scholar at the same time.   An athlete should have a legitimate and credible vocational path towards his career that is not exploitative.   That's what a true minor league professional development path out of high school can provide.

That said, it is also a totally legitimate path that IN RETURN FOR A LEGITIMATE COLLEGE EDUCATION a player should have the option to play for a college.   There is nothing fundamentally wrong with that trade-off and that path choice for a player who's life goals include going through a college scholar path.

IMPORTANT:  The success of the minor league systems for both hockey and baseball has not spelled the death of college baseball and college hockey.    Many great athletes continue to choose to go to college in both those sports.    Indeed, if my memory is correct, I think more such players who opt to got through college in those sports tend to stay in school longer because they aren't there solely to satisfy a dubious 'one-and-done' rule.

The existence of the minor league development systems in hockey and baseball means that young aspiring athletes have a credible choice of paths on how to get to the majors in those two sports that doesn't impose a totally arbitrary constraint on them and make them vulnerable to exploitation by the NCAA.

Basketball players deserve the same options.

[fairweatherfan]

My feeling is always this:

- 18 year olds can declare for the draft, they're adults and if a team wants to pay them millions to play ball, no one should stand in the way of that.

- If they aren't drafted or choose to withdraw, I wouldn't mind something like MLB's rule where they are draft-ineligible for 2-3 years, with the expectation of staying in college to gain experience. Fine either way with this, though.

- The education part of college scholarships should be deferrable and redeemable at any point in the next 20 years after enrollment. Let the talented kids focus on sports and give them the education opportunity as something to use if things don't pan out (or if they do) rather than incentivizing teams treating it as an obstacle to be gotten past. Players who aren't talented enough for the NBA but are talented enough to earn a scholarship can use it while they play. Players who leave early can come back and recoup their remaining "academic eligibility." Everyone gets options.

[gift]

Part of this goes back to what Condoleezza Rice mentioned about ending the one and done players in the NCAA and the charade that it is. For every Zion Williamson, there is a Trae Young that greatly benefited from his one year in school. I don’t know if Young even gets a look out of high school from an NBA team.

Personally, I hate the idea that the NCAA athletes should be paid. If they’re on a full scholarship, then they’re basically already getting paid. For instance, Duke’s tuition is around $56,000 a year and when you add room and board and books, it comes to around $75,000. On top of that, these athletes aren’t paying for the personal trainers, the cost to use the training facilities, or the medical costs.

Maybe the league can give NBA teams the option of sending players directly drafted out of high school or with only one year in college, to their respective G-League team and that service time not be counted against their rookie contract. One of the big downsides to drafting a high school player is that by the time their ready to contribute, the rookie deal is about up and the team has to decide if the player is worth a max deal before deserving it. For high school players, have the G-League time limited to two years before the NBA contact kicks in, while the one year college player can be limited to just one year of  G-League time. Obviously, these players will only go to the G-League if necessary. Players like LeBron that are ready to play in the NBA directly out of high school ae extremely rare.

Did Trae Young benefit from college? Or did he benefit from another year of development? The problem is, at age 18 kids are still developing at different rates. So you can't compare one guy who went to college vs. a guy who went overseas vs. what he would have been if he joined the nba out of high school.

[fairweatherfan]

Personally, I hate the idea that the NCAA athletes should be paid. If they’re on a full scholarship, then they’re basically already getting paid. For instance, Duke’s tuition is around $56,000 a year and when you add room and board and books, it comes to around $75,000. On top of that, these athletes aren’t paying for the personal trainers, the cost to use the training facilities, or the medical costs.

Problem with that reasoning is that a talent level like Zion's is worth literally over a CENTURY of tuition per year, even in the controlled market of the NBA. After his rookie contract, which now will expire a year later than if he'd come straight from high school, it's multiple centuries. The personal training/medical stuff isn't something pro players pay for either so it's moot.

Having to risk major injury and delay your career by a year to receive pennies, or fractions of pennies, on the dollar so somebody else can make millions on your back is a travesty.

[smokeablount]

Part of this goes back to what Condoleezza Rice mentioned about ending the one and done players in the NCAA and the charade that it is. For every Zion Williamson, there is a Trae Young that greatly benefited from his one year in school. I don’t know if Young even gets a look out of high school from an NBA team.

Personally, I hate the idea that the NCAA athletes should be paid. If they’re on a full scholarship, then they’re basically already getting paid. For instance, Duke’s tuition is around $56,000 a year and when you add room and board and books, it comes to around $75,000. On top of that, these athletes aren’t paying for the personal trainers, the cost to use the training facilities, or the medical costs.

Maybe the league can give NBA teams the option of sending players directly drafted out of high school or with only one year in college, to their respective G-League team and that service time not be counted against their rookie contract. One of the big downsides to drafting a high school player is that by the time their ready to contribute, the rookie deal is about up and the team has to decide if the player is worth a max deal before deserving it. For high school players, have the G-League time limited to two years before the NBA contact kicks in, while the one year college player can be limited to just one year of  G-League time. Obviously, these players will only go to the G-League if necessary. Players like LeBron that are ready to play in the NBA directly out of high school ae extremely rare.

Did Trae Young benefit from college? Or did he benefit from another year of development? The problem is, at age 18 kids are still developing at different rates. So you can't compare one guy who went to college vs. a guy who went overseas vs. what he would have been if he joined the nba out of high school.

Maybe I'm missing something, but I'm not sure what Trae Young has to do with it?  He wasn't a top 100 prospect out of HS so he wasn't opting for the draft out of HS.  He'd still go to college, hopefully still dominate pretty much out of the blue, and get drafted in a similar range but likely as the highest drafted college player, since the guys who went above him and the very top guys this year, like Zion, all likely would've gone pro out of HS.  Getting rid of 1&done helps guys like Zion but idk how it would hurt Trae Young, he'd still go to school.

[Moranis]

Personally, I hate the idea that the NCAA athletes should be paid. If they’re on a full scholarship, then they’re basically already getting paid. For instance, Duke’s tuition is around $56,000 a year and when you add room and board and books, it comes to around $75,000. On top of that, these athletes aren’t paying for the personal trainers, the cost to use the training facilities, or the medical costs.

Problem with that reasoning is that a talent level like Zion's is worth literally over a CENTURY of tuition per year, even in the controlled market of the NBA. After his rookie contract, which now will expire a year later than if he'd come straight from high school, it's multiple centuries. The personal training/medical stuff isn't something pro players pay for either so it's moot.

Having to risk major injury and delay your career by a year to receive pennies, or fractions of pennies, on the dollar so somebody else can make millions on your back is a travesty.

Zion was generally projected in the 5-10 range in the 2019 draft around the time of the 2018 draft.  Had he been in the 2018 draft he would have been a back end of the top 10 draftee at best assuming all of those HS seniors like him were in the draft as well as people like Trae Young, Luka Doncic, etc. that wouldn't have been in the 2017 draft (Ayton and Bagley almost certainly would have been in 2017, but the others maybe not).  He benefitted a great deal by spending a year at Duke. 

here are some mocks from around that time

https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2018/6/22/17473998/nba-mock-draft-2019-duke-zion-williamson-rj-barrett-cameron-reddish (they had him 5)

https://thebiglead.com/2018/06/22/2019-nba-mock-draft-rj-barrett-cameron-reddish/ (they had him 7)

https://sports.yahoo.com/2019-nba-mock-draft-050926709.html (they had him 14)

And don't get me wrong, I have never believed that an age limit was appropriate as far more often the high school players end up with very long stellar careers.  The NBA was "fixing" a problem that just didn't really exist and I'm glad they are going to get rid of it.

[RPGenerate]

I have an idea. Lower the draft age limit to 18 years old, but make it so that any players coming out of high school have to spend at least a year on the team that drafted them's D-league team. That way, we remove the corrupt middleman (NCAA) from the equation, and these players can make a salary and make money off of their own likenesses. After the year is up, they can join the team that drafted them. Plus the NBA D-League gets far more marketable and popular. It's a win-win.

[mmmmm]

Part of this goes back to what Condoleezza Rice mentioned about ending the one and done players in the NCAA and the charade that it is. For every Zion Williamson, there is a Trae Young that greatly benefited from his one year in school. I don’t know if Young even gets a look out of high school from an NBA team.

Personally, I hate the idea that the NCAA athletes should be paid. If they’re on a full scholarship, then they’re basically already getting paid. For instance, Duke’s tuition is around $56,000 a year and when you add room and board and books, it comes to around $75,000. On top of that, these athletes aren’t paying for the personal trainers, the cost to use the training facilities, or the medical costs.

Maybe the league can give NBA teams the option of sending players directly drafted out of high school or with only one year in college, to their respective G-League team and that service time not be counted against their rookie contract. One of the big downsides to drafting a high school player is that by the time their ready to contribute, the rookie deal is about up and the team has to decide if the player is worth a max deal before deserving it. For high school players, have the G-League time limited to two years before the NBA contact kicks in, while the one year college player can be limited to just one year of  G-League time. Obviously, these players will only go to the G-League if necessary. Players like LeBron that are ready to play in the NBA directly out of high school ae extremely rare.

Did Trae Young benefit from college? Or did he benefit from another year of development? The problem is, at age 18 kids are still developing at different rates. So you can't compare one guy who went to college vs. a guy who went overseas vs. what he would have been if he joined the nba out of high school.

Maybe I'm missing something, but I'm not sure what Trae Young has to do with it?  He wasn't a top 100 prospect out of HS so he wasn't opting for the draft out of HS.  He'd still go to college, hopefully still dominate pretty much out of the blue, and get drafted in a similar range but likely as the highest drafted college player, since the guys who went above him and the very top guys this year, like Zion, all likely would've gone pro out of HS.  Getting rid of 1&done helps guys like Zion but idk how it would hurt Trae Young, he'd still go to school.

Maybe.  Or if he had a viable option to sign a minor-league contract maybe he gets that extra year or two of development while getting paid.   And like so many young baseball and hockey players have, maybe his talent emerges while he is in the minors.

The point isn't that only one path to the majors is going to work for all players.   Their should be multiple paths to fit their different stories.   And none of the paths should include blatant exploitation such as currently happens with the NCAA model.

[mmmmm]

I have an idea. Lower the draft age limit to 18 years old, but make it so that any players coming out of high school have to spend at least a year on the team that drafted them's D-league team. That way, we remove the corrupt middleman (NCAA) from the equation, and these players can make a salary and make money off of their own likenesses. After the year is up, they can join the team that drafted them. Plus the NBA D-League gets far more marketable and popular. It's a win-win.

Unfortunately, this imposes a similar sort or restraint-of-trade upon these players in that you are saying, arbitrarily, that they can't play in the NBA at age 18.

A guy like Zion should have been able to come out of H.S. and immediately made an NBA roster.   Maybe not as a starter, depending on the team.  But almost certainly would have made the NBA roster.  And deserving of a full NBA contract.

Other players, certainly, might best benefit from some time in a development league.   So there needs to be a path for those types of players to be able to go through something like the G-League and earn a pay check, one that at least pays the bills enough to make the grind worth it, while they develop their skills towards hopefully making it to the NBA.

But you can't impose some arbitrary rule that keeps some players from jumping straight past that.   Before they imposed the current one-and-done rule, there were quite a few great players who came to the NBA straight out of High School.   Lebron himself being one of them.   KG, Kobe, etc., etc.

[mmmmm]

Personally, I hate the idea that the NCAA athletes should be paid. If they’re on a full scholarship, then they’re basically already getting paid. For instance, Duke’s tuition is around $56,000 a year and when you add room and board and books, it comes to around $75,000. On top of that, these athletes aren’t paying for the personal trainers, the cost to use the training facilities, or the medical costs.

Problem with that reasoning is that a talent level like Zion's is worth literally over a CENTURY of tuition per year, even in the controlled market of the NBA. After his rookie contract, which now will expire a year later than if he'd come straight from high school, it's multiple centuries. The personal training/medical stuff isn't something pro players pay for either so it's moot.

Having to risk major injury and delay your career by a year to receive pennies, or fractions of pennies, on the dollar so somebody else can make millions on your back is a travesty.

Zion was generally projected in the 5-10 range in the 2019 draft around the time of the 2018 draft.  Had he been in the 2018 draft he would have been a back end of the top 10 draftee at best assuming all of those HS seniors like him were in the draft as well as people like Trae Young, Luka Doncic, etc. that wouldn't have been in the 2017 draft (Ayton and Bagley almost certainly would have been in 2017, but the others maybe not).  He benefitted a great deal by spending a year at Duke. 

This logic seems questionable to me.   Just because now he's potentially headed for a #1-pick-overall contract compared to potentially just a top-10-pick contract last year doesn't mean that he was better off risking injury during a year at Duke.   After all, that's one year later that he will start and finish his rookie deal and get a chance at a MUCH bigger contract.   And financial-security-for-life a year earlier is worth a LOT.

His ranking in 2018 was also in the context of several other players who were ahead of him who, if the rules had been different, might have gone to the draft the year prior and some who might have decided to defer and go into the draft a year later.  So you can't be certain that he wouldn't have been in the top-5 in such an adjusted reality.

[Moranis]

Personally, I hate the idea that the NCAA athletes should be paid. If they’re on a full scholarship, then they’re basically already getting paid. For instance, Duke’s tuition is around $56,000 a year and when you add room and board and books, it comes to around $75,000. On top of that, these athletes aren’t paying for the personal trainers, the cost to use the training facilities, or the medical costs.

Problem with that reasoning is that a talent level like Zion's is worth literally over a CENTURY of tuition per year, even in the controlled market of the NBA. After his rookie contract, which now will expire a year later than if he'd come straight from high school, it's multiple centuries. The personal training/medical stuff isn't something pro players pay for either so it's moot.

Having to risk major injury and delay your career by a year to receive pennies, or fractions of pennies, on the dollar so somebody else can make millions on your back is a travesty.

Zion was generally projected in the 5-10 range in the 2019 draft around the time of the 2018 draft.  Had he been in the 2018 draft he would have been a back end of the top 10 draftee at best assuming all of those HS seniors like him were in the draft as well as people like Trae Young, Luka Doncic, etc. that wouldn't have been in the 2017 draft (Ayton and Bagley almost certainly would have been in 2017, but the others maybe not).  He benefitted a great deal by spending a year at Duke. 

This logic seems questionable to me.   Just because now he's potentially headed for a #1-pick-overall contract compared to potentially just a top-10-pick contract last year doesn't mean that he was better off risking injury during a year at Duke.   After all, that's one year later that he will start and finish his rookie deal and get a chance at a MUCH bigger contract.   And financial-security-for-life a year earlier is worth a LOT.

His ranking in 2018 was also in the context of several other players who were ahead of him who, if the rules had been different, might have gone to the draft the year prior and some who might have decided to defer and go into the draft a year later.  So you can't be certain that he wouldn't have been in the top-5 in such an adjusted reality.

Those were projections of the 2019 Draft i.e. a draft class that would have contained Zion and all of those other players under any rule system.  The players projected ahead of him at that time were mostly similarly situated to Zion (i.e. high school seniors like him).  In other words, Zion wasn't a guy that everyone in the world knew was going to be the #1 pick.  He wasn't Lebron, Dwight, etc.  He was a raw athlete that has significantly increased his stock playing at Duke.  And there is a pretty big salary difference between going 1 and going even 5 (it is more than 10 million over the 4 year rookie contract).  That is just the salary, the marketing options early on are generally significantly more than that if you are the 1st pick as opposed to the 5th pick.  Zion is actually financially better off having spent the year at Duke.  That obviously isn't the case for everyone.  RJ Barrett, for example, has likely been hurt by going to college as he was pretty much the consensus top pick in the 2019 before being outshone by Zion at Duke. 

No question the players should have the option, but let's not pretend that college doesn't help a large number of future NBA players, because it absolutely and unequivocally does.

[droopdog7]

I understand why the NBA wants kids to go to college.  It’s not about being one year older or that “world class” coaching.  It’s about being able to evaluate kids against higher competition (versus seeing them as the big man on campus in high school).  That helps team make wiser decisions in the draft, which is extremely important.

[Moranis]

I understand why the NBA wants kids to go to college.  It’s not about being one year older or that “world class” coaching.  It’s about being able to evaluate kids against higher competition (versus seeing them as the big man on campus in high school).  That helps team make wiser decisions in the draft, which is extremely important.

except there are probably more busts now then there was when the high school kids entered the draft.