Author Topic: Boston's lack of toughness and the Boston crowd are to blame.  (Read 1489 times)

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Re: Boston's lack of toughness and the Boston crowd are to blame.
« Reply #30 on: February 11, 2019, 02:21:11 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Home court advantage is only worth 2.33 points in the NBA

https://www.onlinebetting.com/basketball-betting/home-court/

Quote
In actuality, home court advantage in the NBA is not the standard three-points that you would think. According to Jeff Sagarin and his advanced statistics, the average home court advantage in the NBA is right around 2.33 points per game.


Re: Boston's lack of toughness and the Boston crowd are to blame.
« Reply #31 on: February 11, 2019, 02:21:54 PM »

Offline goz421

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not the crowds fault. 

try play n better defense

I just can't understand how we have such a young uneducated fan base that can't even get a little outrageous when a Boston player is driven into the standard and the ref watches.

Re: Boston's lack of toughness and the Boston crowd are to blame.
« Reply #32 on: February 11, 2019, 02:22:48 PM »

Offline goz421

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Home court advantage is only worth 2.33 points in the NBA

https://www.onlinebetting.com/basketball-betting/home-court/

Quote
In actuality, home court advantage in the NBA is not the standard three-points that you would think. According to Jeff Sagarin and his advanced statistics, the average home court advantage in the NBA is right around 2.33 points per game.

Thats on the average not for the good teams. Stats are only good for how you use them.

Re: Boston's lack of toughness and the Boston crowd are to blame.
« Reply #33 on: February 11, 2019, 03:04:54 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Home court advantage is only worth 2.33 points in the NBA

https://www.onlinebetting.com/basketball-betting/home-court/

Quote
In actuality, home court advantage in the NBA is not the standard three-points that you would think. According to Jeff Sagarin and his advanced statistics, the average home court advantage in the NBA is right around 2.33 points per game.

Thats on the average not for the good teams. Stats are only good for how you use them.
So glad you took this bait. Yup, on average a team has a 2.33 point home court advantage. Boston is beating teams at home by an average of 9.6 points per game at home. They shoot better, rebound better, pass better, steal more balls and block more shots. Except for the last two losses, the Celtics had only 3 teams with better home records than Boston.

Anyway you paint it, the TD Garden has been a dominant place for the Celtics to play and the crowd is definitely one of the reasons why.

Your whole argument has little to no merit based on stats, based on things players say about the crowd(not giving examples. Too many to list but just ask Pierce, Nowitzki, Rondo, Blake Griffin, LeBron, etc.) and based on mine, and many poster's in this thread observations while being at games.

The problems with this team start and end with what's between the ears of each of the players on this team. Once they decide to play team Celtic basketball, they will be very difficult to beat. Get their heads right and everything else falls into place.

Re: Boston's lack of toughness and the Boston crowd are to blame.
« Reply #34 on: February 11, 2019, 03:17:19 PM »

Offline JBcat

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Are we really blaming the last two games' losses on the refs as the critical factor?

I saw what I saw, the Celtics were just bad after the second quarter. The coaching was just bad. If the Celtics didn't blow 18-point leads to Lakers, they wouldn't need to stop Rondo from shooting a buzzer beater.

Not refs fault at all, but the fans were not riding those refs the way they needed.  Nor where the fans picking the team up as needed. It was like slowly watching a train wreck unfold.

Gimmie a break. Blaming officials is a waste of time. They're going to make their calls, no matter what. Fans booing isn't going to make the officials change their mind on a call they've made.

You my friend are wrong. You can count on home and away being worth about 10 points. Part because of familiarity and part because of officials. They are human, they do change. Statistics will back it up.  In a close game that play off crowd makes difference.

Not that Iím doubting you but I would like to see those stats.  I think another big part of home court advantage or home field if you include all sports is you donít have to travel on a plane ect if you are playing at home, and get to sleep in your bed instead of crazy travel times like arriving at 2 am at an airport.  I know baseball has a scoring system for officials.  I would hope the NBA has something similar to see if an official is making biased calls for the home team.

Re: Boston's lack of toughness and the Boston crowd are to blame.
« Reply #35 on: February 11, 2019, 03:17:48 PM »

Offline goz421

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Home court advantage is only worth 2.33 points in the NBA

https://www.onlinebetting.com/basketball-betting/home-court/

Quote
In actuality, home court advantage in the NBA is not the standard three-points that you would think. According to Jeff Sagarin and his advanced statistics, the average home court advantage in the NBA is right around 2.33 points per game.



Thats on the average not for the good teams. Stats are only good for how you use them.
So glad you took this bait. Yup, on average a team has a 2.33 point home court advantage. Boston is beating teams at home by an average of 9.6 points per game at home. They shoot better, rebound better, pass better, steal more balls and block more shots. Except for the last two losses, the Celtics had only 3 teams with better home records than Boston.

Anyway you paint it, the TD Garden has been a dominant place for the Celtics to play and the crowd is definitely one of the reasons why.

Your whole argument has little to no merit based on stats, based on things players say about the crowd(not giving examples. Too many to list but just ask Pierce, Nowitzki, Rondo, Blake Griffin, LeBron, etc.) and based on mine, and many poster's in this thread observations while being at games.

The problems with this team start and end with what's between the ears of each of the players on this team. Once they decide to play team Celtic basketball, they will be very difficult to beat. Get their heads right and everything else falls into place.

I don't get what your saying? You just proved my point. I'm a coach and I played for many years.  The home court factor has two impactors. One familiarity and two crowd. The crowd is only impactful on how the pressure impacts the players and refs involved. Both can be influenced to an extent.

That is my point.

I do believe it is in part the players mental status, but I also believe it is in part style. They are being beat by not knowing how to deal with physicality when they can't get to the line and they are cold shooting. The three point barrage is great when your on, but subject to inconsistency. When the C's have trouble fielding a healthy team they go through periods of ups and downs.  Kyrie been out for hip, eye, flu, knee, rest. and the same can be said for all. When your leader is only partly there, the team is not in sorts. There is no consistent leadership.

Re: Boston's lack of toughness and the Boston crowd are to blame.
« Reply #36 on: February 11, 2019, 03:25:08 PM »

Online ozgod

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not the crowds fault. 

try play n better defense

I just can't understand how we have such a young uneducated fan base that can't even get a little outrageous when a Boston player is driven into the standard and the ref watches.

You keep talking about how young the posters here are and talk about how long you've been watching and you have a lot of experience with the game - there's a lot of people on this site who have been watching the Celtics since the 80s. Great to hear your opinion, but don't assume we're all kids and don't assume you're the only expert, nobody can validate credentials on the internet anyway ;)
Any odd typos are because I suck at typing on an iPhone :D

Re: Boston's lack of toughness and the Boston crowd are to blame.
« Reply #37 on: February 11, 2019, 03:29:34 PM »

Offline goz421

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To me when people reply with emojis and little content they are young.  If not young in age then young in mind.

Re: Boston's lack of toughness and the Boston crowd are to blame.
« Reply #38 on: February 11, 2019, 03:42:28 PM »

Offline KGBirdBias

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Home court advantage is only worth 2.33 points in the NBA

https://www.onlinebetting.com/basketball-betting/home-court/

Quote
In actuality, home court advantage in the NBA is not the standard three-points that you would think. According to Jeff Sagarin and his advanced statistics, the average home court advantage in the NBA is right around 2.33 points per game.



Thats on the average not for the good teams. Stats are only good for how you use them.
So glad you took this bait. Yup, on average a team has a 2.33 point home court advantage. Boston is beating teams at home by an average of 9.6 points per game at home. They shoot better, rebound better, pass better, steal more balls and block more shots. Except for the last two losses, the Celtics had only 3 teams with better home records than Boston.

Anyway you paint it, the TD Garden has been a dominant place for the Celtics to play and the crowd is definitely one of the reasons why.

Your whole argument has little to no merit based on stats, based on things players say about the crowd(not giving examples. Too many to list but just ask Pierce, Nowitzki, Rondo, Blake Griffin, LeBron, etc.) and based on mine, and many poster's in this thread observations while being at games.

The problems with this team start and end with what's between the ears of each of the players on this team. Once they decide to play team Celtic basketball, they will be very difficult to beat. Get their heads right and everything else falls into place.

I don't get what your saying? You just proved my point. I'm a coach and I played for many years.  The home court factor has two impactors. One familiarity and two crowd. The crowd is only impactful on how the pressure impacts the players and refs involved. Both can be influenced to an extent.

That is my point.

I do believe it is in part the players mental status, but I also believe it is in part style. They are being beat by not knowing how to deal with physicality when they can't get to the line and they are cold shooting. The three point barrage is great when your on, but subject to inconsistency. When the C's have trouble fielding a healthy team they go through periods of ups and downs.  Kyrie been out for hip, eye, flu, knee, rest. and the same can be said for all. When your leader is only partly there, the team is not in sorts. There is no consistent leadership.

I coach too and totally agree with all of this. They dont know what to do when 3pt shots aren't falling. This is why I question their IQ as a team.

Re: Boston's lack of toughness and the Boston crowd are to blame.
« Reply #39 on: February 11, 2019, 03:54:18 PM »

Online rocknrollforyoursoul

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I think the lack of free throws are a feature of Brad's system.

I'm not exactly sure how or why, but it's been a consistent trend over the years, with the lone exception of IT, who garnered tons of free throws two years ago during his peak season.

I wonder if it comes as a result of the emphasis on always finding a better shot.  It seems to me that maybe getting to the free throw line, sometimes, is a matter of deciding to force a shot up against pressuring defenders and pressuring the refs to call something.

If you're always passing the ball to somebody else that might be more open than you, that's generally a good thing -- open shots are better shots -- but it might also result in significantly fewer opportunities to draw contact.


I don't know.  Open shots are good and the Celts generate more than almost any other team in the league.  But free throws are vitally important as well, especially when your jumpers aren't falling and you want to maintain a lead.

Open shots are good, but free throws are generally easier to make. Plus, getting the opponent in foul trouble is a critical, yet often overlooked, aspect of the game.

I also agree with whoever it was in this thread who suggested that the Cs (starting with Brad) need to be able and willing to alter their approach if outside shots aren't falling; i.e., start taking it to the hoop and getting to the line.

Home court advantage is only worth 2.33 points in the NBA

https://www.onlinebetting.com/basketball-betting/home-court/

Quote
In actuality, home court advantage in the NBA is not the standard three-points that you would think. According to Jeff Sagarin and his advanced statistics, the average home court advantage in the NBA is right around 2.33 points per game.

Thats on the average not for the good teams. Stats are only good for how you use them.

The problems with this team start and end with what's between the ears of each of the players on this team. Once they decide to play team Celtic basketball, they will be very difficult to beat. Get their heads right and everything else falls into place.

This is what it boils down to for me. These guys, for the most part, just haven't yet had the mental toughness (focus) that they need in order to play consistently well.
"There are two kinds of people: those who say to God, 'Thy will be done,' and those to whom God says, 'All right, then, have it your way.'"

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ó C.S. Lewis

Re: Boston's lack of toughness and the Boston crowd are to blame.
« Reply #40 on: February 11, 2019, 04:47:42 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Home court advantage is only worth 2.33 points in the NBA

https://www.onlinebetting.com/basketball-betting/home-court/

Quote
In actuality, home court advantage in the NBA is not the standard three-points that you would think. According to Jeff Sagarin and his advanced statistics, the average home court advantage in the NBA is right around 2.33 points per game.



Thats on the average not for the good teams. Stats are only good for how you use them.
So glad you took this bait. Yup, on average a team has a 2.33 point home court advantage. Boston is beating teams at home by an average of 9.6 points per game at home. They shoot better, rebound better, pass better, steal more balls and block more shots. Except for the last two losses, the Celtics had only 3 teams with better home records than Boston.

Anyway you paint it, the TD Garden has been a dominant place for the Celtics to play and the crowd is definitely one of the reasons why.

Your whole argument has little to no merit based on stats, based on things players say about the crowd(not giving examples. Too many to list but just ask Pierce, Nowitzki, Rondo, Blake Griffin, LeBron, etc.) and based on mine, and many poster's in this thread observations while being at games.

The problems with this team start and end with what's between the ears of each of the players on this team. Once they decide to play team Celtic basketball, they will be very difficult to beat. Get their heads right and everything else falls into place.

I don't get what your saying? You just proved my point. I'm a coach and I played for many years.  The home court factor has two impactors. One familiarity and two crowd. The crowd is only impactful on how the pressure impacts the players and refs involved. Both can be influenced to an extent.

That is my point.

I do believe it is in part the players mental status, but I also believe it is in part style. They are being beat by not knowing how to deal with physicality when they can't get to the line and they are cold shooting. The three point barrage is great when your on, but subject to inconsistency. When the C's have trouble fielding a healthy team they go through periods of ups and downs.  Kyrie been out for hip, eye, flu, knee, rest. and the same can be said for all. When your leader is only partly there, the team is not in sorts. There is no consistent leadership.
What you have been saying is that the crowd is the reason the Celtics have been bad. You said good teams have 10 point advantages at home. I pointed out that an average home court advantage is 2.33 points. The Celtics are at 9.6 points.

If the crowd were so bad the Celtics wouldn't have a 9.6 point advantage at home. If the crowd were so bad, the Celtics wouldn't have been one of the elite teams at home like they were before the Lakers game.

Regarding the bold, this is really what you should have made the thread about and not gotten into the part about the crowd being to blame. The crowd has been awesome all year.

Re: Boston's lack of toughness and the Boston crowd are to blame.
« Reply #41 on: February 11, 2019, 05:50:59 PM »

Offline goz421

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I disagree. Iíve seen a complacent lukewarm crowd. Maybe because of this team. People are unsure of them. Iím not talking a lot points here, just flew key points in game when team needs energy or refs need pressure on them for swing the whistle.

Re: Boston's lack of toughness and the Boston crowd are to blame.
« Reply #42 on: February 11, 2019, 06:09:42 PM »

Offline Chris22

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Kyrie got hurt.

That's it.

We will have adjusted by the Philly game.

Re: Boston's lack of toughness and the Boston crowd are to blame.
« Reply #43 on: February 11, 2019, 06:18:21 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Any pro swayed by a so called mediocre needs to go.....

I don't think the crowd had anything to do with the result.   When you play it's not like you notice the crowd that much anyways.

Re: Boston's lack of toughness and the Boston crowd are to blame.
« Reply #44 on: February 11, 2019, 06:20:40 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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I went to games when we one maybe 20 wins ,  and crowd was excellent . We cheered hard and had a good time even tho it was aloss.


Onemof the most consistently attentive fan bases .


CBS and the team need a more urgency in their step.

 

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