Author Topic: Trade Deadline Rumors and Deals Thread  (Read 11576 times)

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Re: Trade Deadline Rumors and Deals Thread
« Reply #405 on: February 07, 2019, 06:52:24 PM »

Offline gouki88

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Re: Trade Deadline Rumors and Deals Thread
« Reply #406 on: February 07, 2019, 06:56:54 PM »

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Is it really much to be chest puffing about that the return on an overall #1 draft pick in a trade less than two season later was Jonathon Simmons, a top 20 protected first rounder & a 2nd rounder?

That's pretty horrendous by any standards.

As Ja Rule once said, someone got "bamboozled" at draft time.
People on here have hilarious takes.  Nobody is chest puffing.  The Sixers made the best that they could out of a bad situation.  Since Fultz still hasn't started practicing again, his value during the offseason would almost certainly have been lower. 

That one who got bamboozled was Colangelo and he was also the idiot that traded the OKC protected pick to the Magic for some Euro center who had a slim to none chance of being an NBA player.  The Fultz trade is certainly better than the fake 1st trade that Colangelo did to get rid of Noel.
Don't care because at this point the Boston-Philly trade is now Tatum and the Sacto pic for Jonathan Simmons(a horrible player), a top 20 protected 2020 pick from OKC that looks like it will become a 2nd rounder and a late 2nd rounder. That's an absolute worse case scenario Philly could have been looking at when they decided to trade a #3 pick and a future LAL/Sacramento pick to Boston for the chance at Markelle Fultz.

If this was Mortal Combat ....
OKC is most likely going to be a top 10 team in 2020 so the pick will most likely be a late 1st not a 2nd.  The 2nd rounder the Sixers will receive is the Cavs 2019 so its going to be a good 2nd not a late 2nd.
Well if correcting my accidental mischaracterization will make you feel better about that trade, you keep correcting me.

So best case scenario is a late first in 2020, an early 2nd in a draft that isn't deep in talent at all this year and Jonathan Simmons for Tatum and Sactown's first this year(which is more valuable than the whole package Philly got for Fultz). Worst case is that 2020 late first could become a second as there is still a decent chance OKC doesn't end up better than 20th. Going to be a lot of player movement this off season that could get teams past OKC.

Re: Trade Deadline Rumors and Deals Thread
« Reply #407 on: February 07, 2019, 07:02:59 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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Is it really much to be chest puffing about that the return on an overall #1 draft pick in a trade less than two season later was Jonathon Simmons, a top 20 protected first rounder & a 2nd rounder?

That's pretty horrendous by any standards.

As Ja Rule once said, someone got "bamboozled" at draft time.

I don't think anyone's really chest puffing, a lot of us are surprised he brought in that much. Having even a hint of positive trade value is a genuine surprise with how he's been.

Re: Trade Deadline Rumors and Deals Thread
« Reply #408 on: February 07, 2019, 07:07:24 PM »

Offline tazzmaniac

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Is it really much to be chest puffing about that the return on an overall #1 draft pick in a trade less than two season later was Jonathon Simmons, a top 20 protected first rounder & a 2nd rounder?

That's pretty horrendous by any standards.

As Ja Rule once said, someone got "bamboozled" at draft time.
People on here have hilarious takes.  Nobody is chest puffing.  The Sixers made the best that they could out of a bad situation.  Since Fultz still hasn't started practicing again, his value during the offseason would almost certainly have been lower. 

That one who got bamboozled was Colangelo and he was also the idiot that traded the OKC protected pick to the Magic for some Euro center who had a slim to none chance of being an NBA player.  The Fultz trade is certainly better than the fake 1st trade that Colangelo did to get rid of Noel.

I think most would say your takes on the 76ers are actually what are hilarious.
So if you were the Sixers you would have hung on to Fultz instead of making this trade?
I would have.  They didn't have to move him, he still has the potential for 2 years to get healthy and increase value.

Yea I think so. Simmons is a net negative player. If they could get Terrance Ross you could at least argue he could swing a playoff game. This is the definition of selling low. For what it is worth, this is the take of most 76ers fans I have seen. So you are kind off on an island thinking this was a good deal for them.

Also for what it is worth I think the Harris Trade was good for them, now that I have had time to digest it. So i think they had a nice deadline overall. I am happy they may not get some better buyout guys (guess matthews is going to Indy and I was worried they would get him. This just seems like a bizarre trade to not feel happy about as a Celtics fan as it is an objectively horrible return for a number 1 pick we traded to them 18 months ago.
Then you're signing up to pay Fultz 9.7M next season and having to decide on picking up his 4th year option for another 12.2M by October.  If you're a rebuilding team you can do that.  If you're trying to become a championship caliber team, it doesn't make sense to do so.  Not sure where your reading but most Sixers fans comments I've seen have realized Fultz was a sunk cost and accepted that the return from this trade is probably the best that they could get for him. 

Re: Trade Deadline Rumors and Deals Thread
« Reply #409 on: February 07, 2019, 07:12:32 PM »

Offline Surferdad

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Is it really much to be chest puffing about that the return on an overall #1 draft pick in a trade less than two season later was Jonathon Simmons, a top 20 protected first rounder & a 2nd rounder?

That's pretty horrendous by any standards.

As Ja Rule once said, someone got "bamboozled" at draft time.

I don't think anyone's really chest puffing, a lot of us are surprised he brought in that much. Having even a hint of positive trade value is a genuine surprise with how he's been.
Agreed. I guess that overall #1 still means something. A team like Orlando is in no hurry and can bring him along at the right pace.

Re: Trade Deadline Rumors and Deals Thread
« Reply #410 on: February 07, 2019, 07:25:17 PM »

Offline tazzmaniac

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Is it really much to be chest puffing about that the return on an overall #1 draft pick in a trade less than two season later was Jonathon Simmons, a top 20 protected first rounder & a 2nd rounder?

That's pretty horrendous by any standards.

As Ja Rule once said, someone got "bamboozled" at draft time.

I don't think anyone's really chest puffing, a lot of us are surprised he brought in that much. Having even a hint of positive trade value is a genuine surprise with how he's been.
Exactly.  The whole narrative on here, on LibertyBallers and on podcasts was that Fultz had little to no value and that no team would even give up a late 1st for him.  From that perspective, this is a positive trade for the Sixers.  You can't worry about the sunk cost of trading for the #1 pick and drafting Fultz.  Just do what you can to recoup some of your losses. 

Re: Trade Deadline Rumors and Deals Thread
« Reply #411 on: February 07, 2019, 07:27:56 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Is it really much to be chest puffing about that the return on an overall #1 draft pick in a trade less than two season later was Jonathon Simmons, a top 20 protected first rounder & a 2nd rounder?

That's pretty horrendous by any standards.

As Ja Rule once said, someone got "bamboozled" at draft time.

I don't think anyone's really chest puffing, a lot of us are surprised he brought in that much. Having even a hint of positive trade value is a genuine surprise with how he's been.
Exactly.  The whole narrative on here, on LibertyBallers and on podcasts was that Fultz had little to no value and that no team would even give up a late 1st for him.  From that perspective, this is a positive trade for the Sixers.  You can't worry about the sunk cost of trading for the #1 pick and drafting Fultz.  Just do what you can to recoup some of your losses.

Are you paid by the 76ers organization or any other fan organization for your advocacy on their behalf? By blog rules i believe you have to disclose that here if you are on a pay to play situation.

Re: Trade Deadline Rumors and Deals Thread
« Reply #412 on: February 07, 2019, 07:32:47 PM »

Offline RodyTur10

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Sources: The Orlando Magic had opportunity to move Terrence Ross to Philadelphia vs Jonathon Simmons, but Orlando chose to keep Ross and add in the future OKC 1st instead. The Magic will continue to push for a playoff spot this season by keeping Ross and All-Star Nikola Vucevic.

https://twitter.com/keithsmithnba/status/1093597730251915264?s=21

ORL could have chosen a Ross expiring instead of the pick and Simmons.

Apparently I'm looking at a site that has the wrong NBA standings. They have Orlando 4 games out of the playoffs with the 7th worst record in the league, while they have only won 3 out of their last 10 games.

Can someone provide me a link that shows me the standings that the Orlando Front Office is looking at?
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Re: Trade Deadline Rumors and Deals Thread
« Reply #413 on: February 07, 2019, 08:14:49 PM »

Offline tazzmaniac

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Sources: The Orlando Magic had opportunity to move Terrence Ross to Philadelphia vs Jonathon Simmons, but Orlando chose to keep Ross and add in the future OKC 1st instead. The Magic will continue to push for a playoff spot this season by keeping Ross and All-Star Nikola Vucevic.

https://twitter.com/keithsmithnba/status/1093597730251915264?s=21

ORL could have chosen a Ross expiring instead of the pick and Simmons.

Apparently I'm looking at a site that has the wrong NBA standings. They have Orlando 4 games out of the playoffs with the 7th worst record in the league, while they have only won 3 out of their last 10 games.

Can someone provide me a link that shows me the standings that the Orlando Front Office is looking at?
TP.  Self-delusion is a key aspect to being bad year after year.  Don't know why they'd want to make the playoff and get swept in the 1st round.  They most likely won't even re-sign Ross. 

Re: Trade Deadline Rumors and Deals Thread
« Reply #414 on: February 07, 2019, 09:33:17 PM »

Offline Moranis

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Is it really much to be chest puffing about that the return on an overall #1 draft pick in a trade less than two season later was Jonathon Simmons, a top 20 protected first rounder & a 2nd rounder?

That's pretty horrendous by any standards.

As Ja Rule once said, someone got "bamboozled" at draft time.
People on here have hilarious takes.  Nobody is chest puffing.  The Sixers made the best that they could out of a bad situation.  Since Fultz still hasn't started practicing again, his value during the offseason would almost certainly have been lower. 

That one who got bamboozled was Colangelo and he was also the idiot that traded the OKC protected pick to the Magic for some Euro center who had a slim to none chance of being an NBA player.  The Fultz trade is certainly better than the fake 1st trade that Colangelo did to get rid of Noel.

I think most would say your takes on the 76ers are actually what are hilarious.
So if you were the Sixers you would have hung on to Fultz instead of making this trade?
I would have.  They didn't have to move him, he still has the potential for 2 years to get healthy and increase value.
How'd hanging on to Okafor to increase his value work out for them?  On the flip slide Hinkie trading MCW a year and a half into his rookie contract was a great decision. 

They were on the hook for his 9.7M salary in 2019/20 and would have had to make the decision to pickup his 4th year option for 12.2M by October.  Once they made the trades for Butler and Harris, they switched to win now mode and hanging onto 20M in deadweight salary on the hope that he'd improve his value made little sense.  He's returned to the team but he hasn't started practicing with them.  It is not clear that his issue has been correctly diagnosed and if it has been I doubt physical therapy is going to resolve it.
Okafor was playing and decreasing his value by playing.  Everyone in the world knows a player's value is at its worst when they are injured and not playing.  Now maybe you think Fultz is completely shot and will never get healthy or improve, but that trade (or something similar) would have been there in the summer and a playoff series isn't going to turn on whether or not Jonathon Simmons is on the Sixers bench this year (and those picks aren't worth much).  It was a terrible trade for the Sixers.  It is indefensible really in my mind.  That said, it doesn't really affect them this year unless Fultz actually ends up playing so I don't think it alters their otherwise very good deadline all that much as it has almost no bearing on their playoff hopes this year (though it certainly could affect their future playoff hopes).
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Re: Trade Deadline Rumors and Deals Thread
« Reply #415 on: February 07, 2019, 09:40:47 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Is it really much to be chest puffing about that the return on an overall #1 draft pick in a trade less than two season later was Jonathon Simmons, a top 20 protected first rounder & a 2nd rounder?

That's pretty horrendous by any standards.

As Ja Rule once said, someone got "bamboozled" at draft time.
People on here have hilarious takes.  Nobody is chest puffing.  The Sixers made the best that they could out of a bad situation.  Since Fultz still hasn't started practicing again, his value during the offseason would almost certainly have been lower. 

That one who got bamboozled was Colangelo and he was also the idiot that traded the OKC protected pick to the Magic for some Euro center who had a slim to none chance of being an NBA player.  The Fultz trade is certainly better than the fake 1st trade that Colangelo did to get rid of Noel.

I think most would say your takes on the 76ers are actually what are hilarious.
So if you were the Sixers you would have hung on to Fultz instead of making this trade?
I would have.  They didn't have to move him, he still has the potential for 2 years to get healthy and increase value.
How'd hanging on to Okafor to increase his value work out for them?  On the flip slide Hinkie trading MCW a year and a half into his rookie contract was a great decision. 

They were on the hook for his 9.7M salary in 2019/20 and would have had to make the decision to pickup his 4th year option for 12.2M by October.  Once they made the trades for Butler and Harris, they switched to win now mode and hanging onto 20M in deadweight salary on the hope that he'd improve his value made little sense.  He's returned to the team but he hasn't started practicing with them.  It is not clear that his issue has been correctly diagnosed and if it has been I doubt physical therapy is going to resolve it.
Okafor was playing and decreasing his value by playing.  Everyone in the world knows a player's value is at its worst when they are injured and not playing.  Now maybe you think Fultz is completely shot and will never get healthy or improve, but that trade (or something similar) would have been there in the summer and a playoff series isn't going to turn on whether or not Jonathon Simmons is on the Sixers bench this year (and those picks aren't worth much).  It was a terrible trade for the Sixers.  It is indefensible really in my mind.  That said, it doesn't really affect them this year unless Fultz actually ends up playing so I don't think it alters their otherwise very good deadline all that much as it has almost no bearing on their playoff hopes this year (though it certainly could affect their future playoff hopes).

One of those rare times I genuinely agree with your take. Good post

Re: Trade Deadline Rumors and Deals Thread
« Reply #416 on: February 07, 2019, 09:51:56 PM »

Offline Moranis

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Sources: The Orlando Magic had opportunity to move Terrence Ross to Philadelphia vs Jonathon Simmons, but Orlando chose to keep Ross and add in the future OKC 1st instead. The Magic will continue to push for a playoff spot this season by keeping Ross and All-Star Nikola Vucevic.

https://twitter.com/keithsmithnba/status/1093597730251915264?s=21

ORL could have chosen a Ross expiring instead of the pick and Simmons.

Apparently I'm looking at a site that has the wrong NBA standings. They have Orlando 4 games out of the playoffs with the 7th worst record in the league, while they have only won 3 out of their last 10 games.

Can someone provide me a link that shows me the standings that the Orlando Front Office is looking at?
Had a long post, but lost it.  Darn.  Anyway the gist was basically that Orlando has a pretty easy schedule with A LOT of games against teams worse then them in the standings, while teams like Miami do not.  I don't think they make it, but it isn't a totally crazy though either.
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Re: Trade Deadline Rumors and Deals Thread
« Reply #417 on: February 07, 2019, 10:17:14 PM »

Offline tazzmaniac

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Is it really much to be chest puffing about that the return on an overall #1 draft pick in a trade less than two season later was Jonathon Simmons, a top 20 protected first rounder & a 2nd rounder?

That's pretty horrendous by any standards.

As Ja Rule once said, someone got "bamboozled" at draft time.
People on here have hilarious takes.  Nobody is chest puffing.  The Sixers made the best that they could out of a bad situation.  Since Fultz still hasn't started practicing again, his value during the offseason would almost certainly have been lower. 

That one who got bamboozled was Colangelo and he was also the idiot that traded the OKC protected pick to the Magic for some Euro center who had a slim to none chance of being an NBA player.  The Fultz trade is certainly better than the fake 1st trade that Colangelo did to get rid of Noel.

I think most would say your takes on the 76ers are actually what are hilarious.
So if you were the Sixers you would have hung on to Fultz instead of making this trade?
I would have.  They didn't have to move him, he still has the potential for 2 years to get healthy and increase value.
How'd hanging on to Okafor to increase his value work out for them?  On the flip slide Hinkie trading MCW a year and a half into his rookie contract was a great decision. 

They were on the hook for his 9.7M salary in 2019/20 and would have had to make the decision to pickup his 4th year option for 12.2M by October.  Once they made the trades for Butler and Harris, they switched to win now mode and hanging onto 20M in deadweight salary on the hope that he'd improve his value made little sense.  He's returned to the team but he hasn't started practicing with them.  It is not clear that his issue has been correctly diagnosed and if it has been I doubt physical therapy is going to resolve it.
Okafor was playing and decreasing his value by playing.  Everyone in the world knows a player's value is at its worst when they are injured and not playing.  Now maybe you think Fultz is completely shot and will never get healthy or improve, but that trade (or something similar) would have been there in the summer and a playoff series isn't going to turn on whether or not Jonathon Simmons is on the Sixers bench this year (and those picks aren't worth much).  It was a terrible trade for the Sixers.  It is indefensible really in my mind.  That said, it doesn't really affect them this year unless Fultz actually ends up playing so I don't think it alters their otherwise very good deadline all that much as it has almost no bearing on their playoff hopes this year (though it certainly could affect their future playoff hopes).
There is no indication that Fultz is anywhere close to being ready to play.  If he was, I don't think the Sixers would have traded him.  He returned to the team a few weeks ago after his physical therapy and hasn't done any practicing so far as far as I know.  As I said earlier, I'm not convinced that the latest diagnosis is correct and if it is correct I don't think physical therapy will resolve the issue.  Even if he comes back for some games, I expect the issue to return and he'd have to be shutdown for surgery.  Even if he just doesn't play, a team trading for him during the offseason would be taking on 9.7M and have just 3 months to decide if they are going to pickup his 12.2M 4 year option.  So I'm not convinced this trade or something similar would be there over the summer.   

Re: Trade Deadline Rumors and Deals Thread
« Reply #418 on: February 12, 2019, 09:53:37 PM »

Offline Moranis

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Sources: The Orlando Magic had opportunity to move Terrence Ross to Philadelphia vs Jonathon Simmons, but Orlando chose to keep Ross and add in the future OKC 1st instead. The Magic will continue to push for a playoff spot this season by keeping Ross and All-Star Nikola Vucevic.

https://twitter.com/keithsmithnba/status/1093597730251915264?s=21

ORL could have chosen a Ross expiring instead of the pick and Simmons.

Apparently I'm looking at a site that has the wrong NBA standings. They have Orlando 4 games out of the playoffs with the 7th worst record in the league, while they have only won 3 out of their last 10 games.

Can someone provide me a link that shows me the standings that the Orlando Front Office is looking at?
Had a long post, but lost it.  Darn.  Anyway the gist was basically that Orlando has a pretty easy schedule with A LOT of games against teams worse then them in the standings, while teams like Miami do not.  I don't think they make it, but it isn't a totally crazy though either.
1.5 games back after their whipping of the Pelicans (I know the game isn't technically over, but it is over). 

Schedule matters.
Historical Draft - Portland Trailblazers
PG - Magic Johnson, Tony Parker
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SF - James Worthy, Alex English
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