Author Topic: Democratic Presidential Candidates 2020  (Read 97561 times)

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Re: Democratic Presidential Candidates 2020
« Reply #450 on: January 16, 2020, 06:36:51 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Funny she is just releasing this now when it allegedly happened in 2018  as she had been dropping in the polls since her Medicare for all proposal.   Warren has a long history of lying to get ahead folks.

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Warren has repeatedly invoked tales of her family’s economic struggles growing up on the campaign trail, in part to sell blue-collar voters on her appeal to middle-class solidarity, although she’s now a multimillionaire. Yet it turns out she may have fibbed once again on her family background. Warren’s brother told the Boston Globe, “My dad was never a janitor," and he said it makes him “furious” that Warren has repeatedly claimed otherwise on the campaign trail.

As the Washington Examiner's Becket Adams noted, “Elizabeth Warren sure does lie a lot about her background.” The real question, though, is why does she mislead the public so often?

Perhaps the senator knows that she can’t sell far-left policy proposals, such as socializing the healthcare system via “Medicare for all” without ample embellishment. So, too, an individual as intelligent as Warren must know that her own background, as a millionaire whose children attended private school, doesn’t fit easily with her soak-the-rich rhetoric.

Maybe she doesn't want to let her voters in on the secret about her campaign: There's nothing populist about it. Commentators often lump Warren's run in with that of Bernie Sanders. But Sanders's base comes from the young and the working class, while Warren's base is mostly highly educated baby boomers who surely feel a warm glow from the belief they are part of some populist uprising.

Of course, Warren's defenders will likely point to Trump's long-documented record of being unconcerned with the truth and even outright lying. "Trump is worse!" they cry. They're not wrong on the facts, but this hardly counts as a defense of Warren.

"Whataboutism" is not an actual argument. Surely Democrats must hold their own to higher standards if they're going to make Trump's dishonesty a central issue with any credibility at all.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/editorials/elizabeth-warrens-lies-are-a-pattern

Recipes, her background, her heritage, her getting fired the list of lies is long.   I know people hate Pres. Trump for lying and it is despicable when he does so but so too is this stuff.

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I definitely want those in need to have access to healthcare, childcare and educational opportunity.  But I like Pete's, Amy's, Joe's, Bloomberg's approaches --- being more pragmatic than the approaches offered by Liz or Bernie

I agree they are more plausible.  I don't mind paying taxes as they are necessary to pay for programs, roads and the like.   But there is tremendous government waste across the board.

So are the Dems trying to take Bernie and Warren out with the timing of the impeachment trial.    Were I Bernie I would resign and keep running for President.   This certainly helps Biden.   I could understand if this is the case because Bernie caucuses with the Dems but is an independent in name.   Really, he is a blatant socialist/communist guy so are they trying to take him, if so do they worry about isolating his supporters.  I personally think he could win 2 out of the first 4 primaries if they were held today.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2020, 06:44:54 AM by Celtics4ever »

Re: Democratic Presidential Candidates 2020
« Reply #451 on: January 16, 2020, 07:31:30 AM »

Offline NKY fan

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Celtics4ever,
I disagree 90% on your political rumblings but I have to agree with what you wrote on Bernie and Warren.
Very fishy that she brings things from 2018 from a private meeting..
if the meeting was between them two how are 4 of Warren disciples saying he said what she said he said?

Re: Democratic Presidential Candidates 2020
« Reply #452 on: January 17, 2020, 10:32:42 AM »

Offline gift

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That's all well and good until the roads need paving.

This hurts my head.

Not a particularly difficult feat to accomplish, I imagine. A centralised government is inevitable for the function of modern society, and "leaving it to the states" is (often) a difficult proposition, financially speaking.

How do different countries manage to function having separate governments and all?

I mean, it's all relative.

Sure. And the US is a good example of a space that probably shouldn't have a centralised government in some cases, because it's a country of 330 million people that covers a good portion of one continent. It would be silly to compare Los Angeles to Kansas City &c.

However - at least, the last time I checked -  there are many states that take more federal aide than they raise in taxes. It would be devastating for, say, Kentucky, to shut off all of their federal aide. This is not to say some of the more-left alternatives for state leadership are significantly better (most are not e.g. Libby Mitchell vs Paul LePage), but that's more of an indictment of the system than the prospect of  a shared tax burden. At least, in my view.

This assumes that states would only function without a centralized government as they do with one. The fact is that states are able to not compete with each other in certain ways because a centralized government allows them not to. There is some benefit to this. But there is also benefit to states competing with each other rather than relying on centralized subsidy (and the prerequisites that then control their local governance). This competition also does not eliminate cooperatives among and between states and does not necessitate the elimination completely of any centralized administration.

Re: Democratic Presidential Candidates 2020
« Reply #453 on: January 17, 2020, 10:41:45 AM »

Offline SDceltGuy

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States are centralized governments.  Many are larger than a lot of countries.  The US is too large and diverse to be ruled by one overbearing government and this has led us to where we are today.  Give the people 50 choices instead of 1 and we are all much better off. 

Re: Democratic Presidential Candidates 2020
« Reply #454 on: January 17, 2020, 12:35:04 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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So you good conservative people are advocating for a dissolution of the United States of America and for each state to become it's very own country? Is that what I am reading?

Re: Democratic Presidential Candidates 2020
« Reply #455 on: January 17, 2020, 12:54:21 PM »

Online Roy H.

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So you good conservative people are advocating for a dissolution of the United States of America and for each state to become it's very own country? Is that what I am reading?

I think they’re calling for a Federalist Constitutional Republic, where the federal government only has the powers enumerated under the Constitutuon.

I think that ship has long sailed, but more autonomy for the States would benefit both liberal and conservative causes, allowing them to be “laboratories of democracy”.
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Re: Democratic Presidential Candidates 2020
« Reply #456 on: January 17, 2020, 02:28:23 PM »

Offline petbrick

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Well it clearly worked out well for Kansas.

Re: Democratic Presidential Candidates 2020
« Reply #457 on: January 17, 2020, 03:02:53 PM »

Online Roy H.

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Well it clearly worked out well for Kansas.

It didn’t, but they tried a model that their citizens preferred. Sometimes they get it right, other times wrong. That’s the “laboratory“ aspect of Federalism.
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Re: Democratic Presidential Candidates 2020
« Reply #458 on: January 17, 2020, 03:16:21 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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So you good conservative people are advocating for a dissolution of the United States of America and for each state to become it's very own country? Is that what I am reading?

I think they’re calling for a Federalist Constitutional Republic, where the federal government only has the powers enumerated under the Constitutuon.

I think that ship has long sailed, but more autonomy for the States would benefit both liberal and conservative causes, allowing them to be “laboratories of democracy”.
No....the post from SDCeltic sure reads like he or she would prefer 50 different countries, Roy.

Re: Democratic Presidential Candidates 2020
« Reply #459 on: January 17, 2020, 05:49:55 PM »

Online Roy H.

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So you good conservative people are advocating for a dissolution of the United States of America and for each state to become it's very own country? Is that what I am reading?

I think they’re calling for a Federalist Constitutional Republic, where the federal government only has the powers enumerated under the Constitutuon.

I think that ship has long sailed, but more autonomy for the States would benefit both liberal and conservative causes, allowing them to be “laboratories of democracy”.
No....the post from SDCeltic sure reads like he or she would prefer 50 different countries, Roy.

Yeah, I can't get behind that.  I think that there are a whole host of things that should only be within a state's jurisdiction.  But, we need a national government that holds everything together.  Common defense, preventing states from making their own treaties and instituting tariffs, etc.

But, in the early 1900s, the country started to become much more centralized in DC.  In an alternative universe, I'd love to see how a true federalist republic worked in the modern era.  I think it could have a lot of pluses.
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Re: Democratic Presidential Candidates 2020
« Reply #460 on: January 17, 2020, 06:21:28 PM »

Offline tazzmaniac

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So you good conservative people are advocating for a dissolution of the United States of America and for each state to become it's very own country? Is that what I am reading?

I think they’re calling for a Federalist Constitutional Republic, where the federal government only has the powers enumerated under the Constitutuon.

I think that ship has long sailed, but more autonomy for the States would benefit both liberal and conservative causes, allowing them to be “laboratories of democracy”.
No....the post from SDCeltic sure reads like he or she would prefer 50 different countries, Roy.

Yeah, I can't get behind that.  I think that there are a whole host of things that should only be within a state's jurisdiction.  But, we need a national government that holds everything together.  Common defense, preventing states from making their own treaties and instituting tariffs, etc.

But, in the early 1900s, the country started to become much more centralized in DC.  In an alternative universe, I'd love to see how a true federalist republic worked in the modern era.  I think it could have a lot of pluses.
It flopped at the beginning with the Articles of Confederation and it would be an absolute disaster in modern times.  A strong national government is key to U.S. greatness which greatly benefited the world in the 20th century. 

Re: Democratic Presidential Candidates 2020
« Reply #461 on: January 17, 2020, 07:27:10 PM »

Online Neurotic Guy

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Celtics4ever,
I disagree 90% on your political rumblings but I have to agree with what you wrote on Bernie and Warren.
Very fishy that she brings things from 2018 from a private meeting..
if the meeting was between them two how are 4 of Warren disciples saying he said what she said he said?

Can’t we all agree that lying is a bad thing?  We give leeway to politicians for spinning, but I don’t think we should do so for bald faced lying.

It’s true that lying has relativity.  Frequency, intent (to hurt others vs. rationalize your own choices), severity/ intensity (“size” of the lie) and impact are all variables that can mitigate or increase how negatively one might view the liar. 

I don’t want someone I can’t trust as POTUS.  It does nothing to lessen Trump’s dishonesty by pointing out Warren’s dishonesty. Nor should Trump’s lying provide shade for Liz’s lies.

Re: Democratic Presidential Candidates 2020
« Reply #462 on: January 19, 2020, 12:55:58 AM »

Online Roy H.

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The Herald really hates Warren:

https://www.bostonherald.com/2020/01/16/another-day-another-lie-from-elizabeth-warren/

And, I agree.  Bernie and I are nowhere close politically, but I think he’s mostly decent and believes in what he says. He doesn’t at all strike me as a chauvinist, or even a pragmatist.  He believes in his ideals, as leftist as they may be.

EDIT:  Biden’s lying about Bernie, too.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/01/18/joe-biden-falsely-attacks-bernie-sanders-100811
« Last Edit: January 19, 2020, 01:28:21 AM by Roy H. »
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Re: Democratic Presidential Candidates 2020
« Reply #463 on: January 21, 2020, 07:28:33 PM »

Online Roy H.

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Hillary hates Bernie, and won’t commit to backing him.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/hillary-clinton-says-nobody-likes-150945912.html

It makes me like Bernie more.
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Re: Democratic Presidential Candidates 2020
« Reply #464 on: January 21, 2020, 07:41:37 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

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Hillary hates Bernie, and won’t commit to backing him.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/hillary-clinton-says-nobody-likes-150945912.html

It makes me like Bernie more.

I read this in the NYT today and was unsurprised Hillary just has to keep injecting herself, first attacking Tulsi and now Bernie.  She's just a vile beast.  Trump is clearly viler but anyone who claims she isn't also vile is lying.