Author Topic: Who is to blame more for disappointing season thus far. Ainge or Stevens?  (Read 4245 times)

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Offline Tr1boy

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-Ainge good at acquiring talent/picks but so so in terms of designing a roster.   This is team is just way too heavy in the middle of the lineup.  In addition too many players with similar egos

-Stevens is good at extracting the most from mediocre/rookies.  When he is the PG from the sidelines running the team.  Otherwise, not so great .... especially dealing with egos/needing to put players in their place/defining roles

Thus far who is to blame more for the results so far... 

Online Who

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Neither guy. They are doing their jobs well.

It is down the players.

Offline Tr1boy

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Neither guy. They are doing their jobs well.

The inconsistency/losing to crappy teams/terrible b2b (excellent in the past)

Say otherwise

Offline Chief

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I dont blame Ainge, right now. He has acquired a lot of valuable assets.  Obviously,  they dont fit very well together but hopefully he can trade them for what CBS needs to win a few championships.


Cant blame CBS either. He has a few parts that don't fit but has to play them to keep their value fairly high. Also, we all know Gordon is going to take time to get right. It might not be until next season.  It was a bad injury. 

I think us, the fans, have to look long term like Ainge and CBS are hopefully doing.
Once you are labeled 'the best' you want to stay up there, and you can't do it by loafing around.
 
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Offline jpd985

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Neither guy. They are doing their jobs well.

The inconsistency/losing to crappy teams/terrible b2b (excellent in the past)

Say otherwise

Everyone, save for Ainge deserves some blame.

Offline nickagneta

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Agree with Who. I think this is a player problem.

- Hayward took forever to get mediocre
- Brown took until early December before accepting his role and playing better more consistent ball.
-Injuries to the bigs left us with almost none for 4-6 games.
- Rozier being Rozier and being bad as a bench player but good as a starter.
- Tatum not really taking any developmental steps forward.

That's all player issues, not coaching or front office issues.

Offline gpap

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I think everyone deserves some type of blame from Stevens to Ainge to all the players.

It becomes very problematic when you start cherry picking one specific person

For a team to be successful, you have to assemble the right roster, coached by the right person and executed by the right players.

I know I am sorta hedging, but all of the above deserve some form of criticism.

Offline Tr1boy

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Agree with Who. I think this is a player problem.

- Hayward took forever to get mediocre
- Brown took until early December before accepting his role and playing better more consistent ball.
-Injuries to the bigs left us with almost none for 4-6 games.
- Rozier being Rozier and being bad as a bench player but good as a starter.
- Tatum not really taking any developmental steps forward.

That's all player issues, not coaching or front office issues.

This team well being shouldnt be dependent on Hayward health

See last season squad

Offline nickagneta

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Agree with Who. I think this is a player problem.

- Hayward took forever to get mediocre
- Brown took until early December before accepting his role and playing better more consistent ball.
-Injuries to the bigs left us with almost none for 4-6 games.
- Rozier being Rozier and being bad as a bench player but good as a starter.
- Tatum not really taking any developmental steps forward.

That's all player issues, not coaching or front office issues.

This team well being shouldnt be dependent on Hayward health

See last season squad
Last year's team was affected by Hayward. If he never got hurt maybe the C's win over 60 games and the title. So last year's team wasn't independent of Hayward's health. It definitely affected the team. And so, like every team ever, this year's team's well being is being affected by player health.

Offline satch

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Greed is to blame.

Re: Who is to blame more for disappointing season thus far. Ainge or Stevens?
« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2019, 04:42:32 PM »

Offline SCeltic34

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Agree with Who. I think this is a player problem.

- Hayward took forever to get mediocre
- Brown took until early December before accepting his role and playing better more consistent ball.
-Injuries to the bigs left us with almost none for 4-6 games.
- Rozier being Rozier and being bad as a bench player but good as a starter.
- Tatum not really taking any developmental steps forward.

That's all player issues, not coaching or front office issues.

I agree that it's mostly on the players.  But would you not agree that Stevens deserves at least some criticism?  He's a great coach and I honestly want him here for many years to come.  This season however he's done an underwhelming job IMHO.

1) Our bench unit by itself would make for a decent starting NBA roster: Baynes (or Williams), Theis, Hayward, Brown, Rozier.  On paper anyway.  Brad has not yet been able to get the most out of the immense talent that is spread across our roster.  Our bench play overall is very inconsistent and stagnant offensively.  Haven't figured it out yet.

2) He is incredibly stubborn at times when it comes to in game adjustments.  For instance, sticking with his usual "switch everything" pick and roll coverage against Houston and letting Harden dismantle us did not seem ideal.  Not sure why you'd want to use a typical strategy against a player that is anything but typical, especially when it was clear that it was not working as the game progressed.

3) Trying too keep to many people happy by spreading minutes around.  Please Brad, just cut Terry Rozier's minutes and split most of them between Smart and Brown.  Especially Smart.  If that makes Terry unhappy then too bad.  He's done little this season to prove that he deserves the minutes he gets off the bench.  In many games his selfish play hurts our team.  Brad needs to recognize that and rein him in.

4) ATO plays don't seem as sharp as in years prior.  That's definitely on the players as well, but he needs to get them to execute.

5) Not calling time outs fast enough to stop the other team's momentum when they're on a run.  Now I know that this is debatable, and he seems to subscribe to the Phil Jackson, Popovich kind of philosophy where it's up to the players to "figure it out".  I'd normally have no issue with this, but we're still overall a young team that has not developed adequate chemistry to do this game by game.  I'd prefer Stevens call TO when he notices things going south, i.e when the other team has scored 3 buckets in a row while our offense looks ragged.

6) The points you've made about our players are spot on.  I don't disagree with any of that.  I'd argue that Tatum has regressed from last season.  That's on Tatum, but also on Brad and the rest of our coaches too.  Recall how Brad had a short leash on Tatum early in the season when he'd go into hero ball mode.  We're not seeing that as much anymore, and Tatum looks more and more like Carmelo Anthony with each passing game.

7) Inconsistency.  Primarily a player issue.  But the lack of effort that is observable at times is frustrating to watch.  They say that the team takes on the characteristics of the coach.  I don't think that this is true with Stevens, but is he still getting through to everyone in the locker room?

Shared blame.  That's how I see it.  I think that these are fair criticisms from a neutral perspective.  Again, I want Brad here.  We could do far, far worse.

Long term outlook - it's hard to be pessimistic.  Even if we don't do well this year, we're still set up incredibly well.  Ainge has done an incredible job.  I'm also still relatively optimistic about this year.  In recent years we've played great basketball after the All Star Break.  I think things will round into form and this will be the case again.  I've said and will continue to say that none of the teams in the East want to play us in a 7 game series, especially in round 1.

Re: Who is to blame more for disappointing season thus far. Ainge or Stevens?
« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2019, 04:52:21 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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c.   Our players.

Re: Who is to blame more for disappointing season thus far. Ainge or Stevens?
« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2019, 05:00:28 PM »

Offline Silas

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c.   Our players.

Come on...it's the inconsistent play of everyone but Irving and Smart. 
I've lived through some terrible things in my life, some of which actually happened.   -  Mark Twain

Re: Who is to blame more for disappointing season thus far. Ainge or Stevens?
« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2019, 06:01:13 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Agree with Who. I think this is a player problem.

- Hayward took forever to get mediocre
- Brown took until early December before accepting his role and playing better more consistent ball.
-Injuries to the bigs left us with almost none for 4-6 games.
- Rozier being Rozier and being bad as a bench player but good as a starter.
- Tatum not really taking any developmental steps forward.

That's all player issues, not coaching or front office issues.

I agree that it's mostly on the players.  But would you not agree that Stevens deserves at least some criticism?  He's a great coach and I honestly want him here for many years to come.  This season however he's done an underwhelming job IMHO.

1) Our bench unit by itself would make for a decent starting NBA roster: Baynes (or Williams), Theis, Hayward, Brown, Rozier.  On paper anyway.  Brad has not yet been able to get the most out of the immense talent that is spread across our roster.  Our bench play overall is very inconsistent and stagnant offensively.  Haven't figured it out yet.

2) He is incredibly stubborn at times when it comes to in game adjustments.  For instance, sticking with his usual "switch everything" pick and roll coverage against Houston and letting Harden dismantle us did not seem ideal.  Not sure why you'd want to use a typical strategy against a player that is anything but typical, especially when it was clear that it was not working as the game progressed.

3) Trying too keep to many people happy by spreading minutes around.  Please Brad, just cut Terry Rozier's minutes and split most of them between Smart and Brown.  Especially Smart.  If that makes Terry unhappy then too bad.  He's done little this season to prove that he deserves the minutes he gets off the bench.  In many games his selfish play hurts our team.  Brad needs to recognize that and rein him in.

4) ATO plays don't seem as sharp as in years prior.  That's definitely on the players as well, but he needs to get them to execute.

5) Not calling time outs fast enough to stop the other team's momentum when they're on a run.  Now I know that this is debatable, and he seems to subscribe to the Phil Jackson, Popovich kind of philosophy where it's up to the players to "figure it out".  I'd normally have no issue with this, but we're still overall a young team that has not developed adequate chemistry to do this game by game.  I'd prefer Stevens call TO when he notices things going south, i.e when the other team has scored 3 buckets in a row while our offense looks ragged.

6) The points you've made about our players are spot on.  I don't disagree with any of that.  I'd argue that Tatum has regressed from last season.  That's on Tatum, but also on Brad and the rest of our coaches too.  Recall how Brad had a short leash on Tatum early in the season when he'd go into hero ball mode.  We're not seeing that as much anymore, and Tatum looks more and more like Carmelo Anthony with each passing game.

7) Inconsistency.  Primarily a player issue.  But the lack of effort that is observable at times is frustrating to watch.  They say that the team takes on the characteristics of the coach.  I don't think that this is true with Stevens, but is he still getting through to everyone in the locker room?

Shared blame.  That's how I see it.  I think that these are fair criticisms from a neutral perspective.  Again, I want Brad here.  We could do far, far worse.

Long term outlook - it's hard to be pessimistic.  Even if we don't do well this year, we're still set up incredibly well.  Ainge has done an incredible job.  I'm also still relatively optimistic about this year.  In recent years we've played great basketball after the All Star Break.  I think things will round into form and this will be the case again.  I've said and will continue to say that none of the teams in the East want to play us in a 7 game series, especially in round 1.
The question was who is more to blame. I agree with Who that it's more a players not performing problem. That doesn't mean Stevens and Ainge aren't also to fault but I think it fairly obvious that the biggest problem has been player performance.

I mean, blaming Stevens for most of what's wrong, in my opinion, is like trying to blame a ship sinking on the one guy trying to bail water out of the ship instead of the 15 guys looking at the hole in the ship's side and doing nothing about plugging the hole.

Stevens has maybe cost this team one loss. That's it. The other 5-6 bad losses were all on the players

Re: Who is to blame more for disappointing season thus far. Ainge or Stevens?
« Reply #14 on: January 13, 2019, 06:26:52 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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Agree with Who. I think this is a player problem.

- Hayward took forever to get mediocre
- Brown took until early December before accepting his role and playing better more consistent ball.
-Injuries to the bigs left us with almost none for 4-6 games.
- Rozier being Rozier and being bad as a bench player but good as a starter.
- Tatum not really taking any developmental steps forward.

That's all player issues, not coaching or front office issues.

I agree that it's mostly on the players.  But would you not agree that Stevens deserves at least some criticism?  He's a great coach and I honestly want him here for many years to come.  This season however he's done an underwhelming job IMHO.

1) Our bench unit by itself would make for a decent starting NBA roster: Baynes (or Williams), Theis, Hayward, Brown, Rozier.  On paper anyway.  Brad has not yet been able to get the most out of the immense talent that is spread across our roster.  Our bench play overall is very inconsistent and stagnant offensively.  Haven't figured it out yet.

2) He is incredibly stubborn at times when it comes to in game adjustments.  For instance, sticking with his usual "switch everything" pick and roll coverage against Houston and letting Harden dismantle us did not seem ideal.  Not sure why you'd want to use a typical strategy against a player that is anything but typical, especially when it was clear that it was not working as the game progressed.

3) Trying too keep to many people happy by spreading minutes around.  Please Brad, just cut Terry Rozier's minutes and split most of them between Smart and Brown.  Especially Smart.  If that makes Terry unhappy then too bad.  He's done little this season to prove that he deserves the minutes he gets off the bench.  In many games his selfish play hurts our team.  Brad needs to recognize that and rein him in.

4) ATO plays don't seem as sharp as in years prior.  That's definitely on the players as well, but he needs to get them to execute.

5) Not calling time outs fast enough to stop the other team's momentum when they're on a run.  Now I know that this is debatable, and he seems to subscribe to the Phil Jackson, Popovich kind of philosophy where it's up to the players to "figure it out".  I'd normally have no issue with this, but we're still overall a young team that has not developed adequate chemistry to do this game by game.  I'd prefer Stevens call TO when he notices things going south, i.e when the other team has scored 3 buckets in a row while our offense looks ragged.

6) The points you've made about our players are spot on.  I don't disagree with any of that.  I'd argue that Tatum has regressed from last season.  That's on Tatum, but also on Brad and the rest of our coaches too.  Recall how Brad had a short leash on Tatum early in the season when he'd go into hero ball mode.  We're not seeing that as much anymore, and Tatum looks more and more like Carmelo Anthony with each passing game.

7) Inconsistency.  Primarily a player issue.  But the lack of effort that is observable at times is frustrating to watch.  They say that the team takes on the characteristics of the coach.  I don't think that this is true with Stevens, but is he still getting through to everyone in the locker room?

Shared blame.  That's how I see it.  I think that these are fair criticisms from a neutral perspective.  Again, I want Brad here.  We could do far, far worse.

Long term outlook - it's hard to be pessimistic.  Even if we don't do well this year, we're still set up incredibly well.  Ainge has done an incredible job.  I'm also still relatively optimistic about this year.  In recent years we've played great basketball after the All Star Break.  I think things will round into form and this will be the case again.  I've said and will continue to say that none of the teams in the East want to play us in a 7 game series, especially in round 1.
The question was who is more to blame. I agree with Who that it's more a players not performing problem. That doesn't mean Stevens and Ainge aren't also to fault but I think it fairly obvious that the biggest problem has been player performance.

I mean, blaming Stevens for most of what's wrong, in my opinion, is like trying to blame a ship sinking on the one guy trying to bail water out of the ship instead of the 15 guys looking at the hole in the ship's side and doing nothing about plugging the hole.

Stevens has maybe cost this team one loss. That's it. The other 5-6 bad losses were all on the players

So you don't think Popovich would be able to extract 4-5 more wins with the same team?!