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Houston trades MCW to Bulls
« on: January 07, 2019, 11:01:28 AM »

Online Birdman

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Houston traded Michael Carter Williams to Chicago to clear up space..how many teams he played for now?
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Re: Houston trades MCW to Bulls
« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2019, 11:04:57 AM »

Offline Surferdad

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Re: Houston trades MCW to Bulls
« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2019, 11:05:13 AM »

Offline Erik

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5 if you don't count this trade to the Bulls as a new instance. 6 if you do.

His problem has been his 3pt shot. You cannot have a PG in the NBA that is in the 20% in 3pt shooting because you cannot run an effective PnR offense. He's essentially Ben Simmons. Once the hype around Simmons settles, more people will realize that.
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Re: Houston trades MCW to Bulls
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2019, 11:06:00 AM »

Offline Who

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Didn't he already play for the Bulls? ... and fail there.
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Re: Houston trades MCW to Bulls
« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2019, 11:08:10 AM »

Offline tazzmaniac

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Quote from: Who on January 07, 2019, 11:06:00 AM
Didn't he already play for the Bulls? ... and fail there.
Yes and they're going to waive him.  The Bulls got a conditional 2nd.  The Rockets reduce their luxury tax. 
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Re: Houston trades MCW to Bulls
« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2019, 11:18:08 AM »

Offline Surferdad

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Quote from: Erik on January 07, 2019, 11:05:13 AM
5 if you don't count this trade to the Bulls as a new instance. 6 if you do.

His problem has been his 3pt shot. You cannot have a PG in the NBA that is in the 20% in 3pt shooting because you cannot run an effective PnR offense. He's essentially Ben Simmons. Once the hype around Simmons settles, more people will realize that.
Ben Simmons light, very light.
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Re: Houston trades MCW to Bulls
« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2019, 11:24:57 AM »

Offline Jvalin

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Really liked this guy during his rookie year. If it weren't for the 3-point mania that eclipses everything else in today's game, I reckon he would have been a starting PG in this league for years to come. Still remember his debut game vs the Heat back in 2013.

22 pts, 7 rebs, 12 assists, 9 steals !!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbWX5jZbPvQ
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Re: Houston trades MCW to Bulls
« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2019, 11:25:58 AM »

Offline footey

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Quote from: Erik on January 07, 2019, 11:05:13 AM
5 if you don't count this trade to the Bulls as a new instance. 6 if you do.

His problem has been his 3pt shot. You cannot have a PG in the NBA that is in the 20% in 3pt shooting because you cannot run an effective PnR offense. He's essentially Ben Simmons. Once the hype around Simmons settles, more people will realize that.

Speaking of which, has anyone seen when Simmons takes the occasional outside the lane shot (not even 3 point territory)? Looks brutal. As bad as Fultz.  Just really really awkward.
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Re: Houston trades MCW to Bulls
« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2019, 11:52:39 AM »

Offline tazzmaniac

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Quote from: footey on January 07, 2019, 11:25:58 AM
Quote from: Erik on January 07, 2019, 11:05:13 AM
5 if you don't count this trade to the Bulls as a new instance. 6 if you do.

His problem has been his 3pt shot. You cannot have a PG in the NBA that is in the 20% in 3pt shooting because you cannot run an effective PnR offense. He's essentially Ben Simmons. Once the hype around Simmons settles, more people will realize that.

Speaking of which, has anyone seen when Simmons takes the occasional outside the lane shot (not even 3 point territory)? Looks brutal. As bad as Fultz.  Just really really awkward.
That's progress over not taking any jump shots.  Coach Brown wants him to take 1 a quarter.  His jump shot doesn't need to look good or be that effective.  He does need to be comfortable with taking it. 
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Re: Houston trades MCW to Bulls
« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2019, 12:14:55 PM »

Offline jambr380

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Quote from: Surferdad on January 07, 2019, 11:18:08 AM
Quote from: Erik on January 07, 2019, 11:05:13 AM
5 if you don't count this trade to the Bulls as a new instance. 6 if you do.

His problem has been his 3pt shot. You cannot have a PG in the NBA that is in the 20% in 3pt shooting because you cannot run an effective PnR offense. He's essentially Ben Simmons. Once the hype around Simmons settles, more people will realize that.
Ben Simmons light, very light.

People wouldn't have said that after his rookie year. After putting up 17/6/6 with 2 spg, he was poised to become a much better player than he has. Obviously the outside shooting is a problem, but he has never looked like the brightest bulb either (has the 'is anybody home?' look in his eyes like Brandon Ingram).

It seems like if he re-gained focus and worked hard, he could have a real role in this league. It's not looking good with his last couple of seasons, though.
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Re: Houston trades MCW to Bulls
« Reply #10 on: January 07, 2019, 12:18:29 PM »

Offline Moranis

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I was just talking about MCW in another thread and I theorized that he is the only player in the NBA history with at least 5 seasons (he is in year 6) where every single season is statistically worse than the prior season.  I didn't have any way to verify that, but I certainly can't think of a player that at least statistically got worse every year he played. 
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Re: Houston trades MCW to Bulls
« Reply #11 on: January 07, 2019, 12:32:42 PM »

Offline tarheelsxxiii

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Quote from: Erik on January 07, 2019, 11:05:13 AM
5 if you don't count this trade to the Bulls as a new instance. 6 if you do.

His problem has been his 3pt shot. You cannot have a PG in the NBA that is in the 20% in 3pt shooting because you cannot run an effective PnR offense. He's essentially Ben Simmons. Once the hype around Simmons settles, more people will realize that.

He's a nightly triple double threat and perennial all-star?
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Re: Houston trades MCW to Bulls
« Reply #12 on: January 07, 2019, 03:03:42 PM »

Offline Erik

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Quote from: Moranis on January 07, 2019, 12:18:29 PM
I was just talking about MCW in another thread and I theorized that he is the only player in the NBA history with at least 5 seasons (he is in year 6) where every single season is statistically worse than the prior season.  I didn't have any way to verify that, but I certainly can't think of a player that at least statistically got worse every year he played.

His per/X numbers are pretty consistent. He just isn't getting minutes.

Quote from: tarheelsxxiii on January 07, 2019, 12:32:42 PM
Quote from: Erik on January 07, 2019, 11:05:13 AM
5 if you don't count this trade to the Bulls as a new instance. 6 if you do.

His problem has been his 3pt shot. You cannot have a PG in the NBA that is in the 20% in 3pt shooting because you cannot run an effective PnR offense. He's essentially Ben Simmons. Once the hype around Simmons settles, more people will realize that.

He's a nightly triple double threat and perennial all-star?

Here are their ROY seasons side by side.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=michael+carter-Williams&player_id1_select=Michael+Carter-Williams&y1=2014&player_id1=cartemi01&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Ben+Simmons&player_id2_select=Ben+Simmons&y2=2018&player_id2=simmobe01&idx=players


Ben Simmons is not a top player in today's NBA. He would have been amazing in the 80s, 90s and 2000s. He'll eventually fall off like MCW.



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Re: Houston trades MCW to Bulls
« Reply #13 on: January 07, 2019, 03:26:13 PM »

Offline tazzmaniac

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Quote from: Erik on January 07, 2019, 03:03:42 PM
Quote from: Moranis on January 07, 2019, 12:18:29 PM
I was just talking about MCW in another thread and I theorized that he is the only player in the NBA history with at least 5 seasons (he is in year 6) where every single season is statistically worse than the prior season.  I didn't have any way to verify that, but I certainly can't think of a player that at least statistically got worse every year he played.

His per/X numbers are pretty consistent. He just isn't getting minutes.

Quote from: tarheelsxxiii on January 07, 2019, 12:32:42 PM
Quote from: Erik on January 07, 2019, 11:05:13 AM
5 if you don't count this trade to the Bulls as a new instance. 6 if you do.

His problem has been his 3pt shot. You cannot have a PG in the NBA that is in the 20% in 3pt shooting because you cannot run an effective PnR offense. He's essentially Ben Simmons. Once the hype around Simmons settles, more people will realize that.

He's a nightly triple double threat and perennial all-star?

Here are their ROY seasons side by side.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=michael+carter-Williams&player_id1_select=Michael+Carter-Williams&y1=2014&player_id1=cartemi01&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Ben+Simmons&player_id2_select=Ben+Simmons&y2=2018&player_id2=simmobe01&idx=players


Ben Simmons is not a top player in today's NBA. He would have been amazing in the 80s, 90s and 2000s. He'll eventually fall off like MCW.
Big difference.  MCW was stat padding on a hard tanking team. 
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Re: Houston trades MCW to Bulls
« Reply #14 on: January 07, 2019, 04:04:22 PM »

Offline Moranis

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Quote from: tazzmaniac on January 07, 2019, 03:26:13 PM
Quote from: Erik on January 07, 2019, 03:03:42 PM
Quote from: Moranis on January 07, 2019, 12:18:29 PM
I was just talking about MCW in another thread and I theorized that he is the only player in the NBA history with at least 5 seasons (he is in year 6) where every single season is statistically worse than the prior season.  I didn't have any way to verify that, but I certainly can't think of a player that at least statistically got worse every year he played.

His per/X numbers are pretty consistent. He just isn't getting minutes.

Quote from: tarheelsxxiii on January 07, 2019, 12:32:42 PM
Quote from: Erik on January 07, 2019, 11:05:13 AM
5 if you don't count this trade to the Bulls as a new instance. 6 if you do.

His problem has been his 3pt shot. You cannot have a PG in the NBA that is in the 20% in 3pt shooting because you cannot run an effective PnR offense. He's essentially Ben Simmons. Once the hype around Simmons settles, more people will realize that.

He's a nightly triple double threat and perennial all-star?

Here are their ROY seasons side by side.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=michael+carter-Williams&player_id1_select=Michael+Carter-Williams&y1=2014&player_id1=cartemi01&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Ben+Simmons&player_id2_select=Ben+Simmons&y2=2018&player_id2=simmobe01&idx=players


Ben Simmons is not a top player in today's NBA. He would have been amazing in the 80s, 90s and 2000s. He'll eventually fall off like MCW.
Big difference.  MCW was stat padding on a hard tanking team.
and didn't improve from his first to second year.
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