Is Luka better than LeBron

[Sophomore]

Luka < LeBron. It is not close.

For one thing, half the game is defense. Young LeBron was a menace when he wanted to be. Doncic is okay as a defender. This isn’t captured in your stats. Also, Doncic has been a pro for years. LBJ was up from playing against high schoolers.

Ultimately, I project Doncic as a very good player - all star with top-5 potential. Harden seems like a better comp for his ceiling.

 The athleticism and Lack of upside is a fair point..

 However people are being dismissive that he's putting up better offensive stats in the same amount of time.



 How did Larry's legend prevent him from being great.

I’m not going to run down Larry Bird on a board like this

But LBJ was a plus defender, and for a good stretch elite - all NBA defense six times.  Being a great wing defender in today’s NBA is worth a lot - if Doncic is going to equal or best LBJ he’s got to improve a lot as a defender or develop a clear superiority in some other area. We’ll see.

I think we’ll also have to see how much it matters that Doncic has already had 5-6 years of pro-level coaching and he’s been playing against grown men for a while. LeBron made quite a leap from year 1 to year 2, probably because he was getting much better instruction and adjusting to the level of play. (His PER went from 18.3 to 25.7.) Is Luka closer to being a finished product or is he going to make a similar leap? I don’t know.

Ultimately, saying his ceiling comp looks more like Harden than LBJ isn’t much of a knock.

One other thought - when LBJ came up, people weren’t shooting the 3 like they do today, and he didn’t have a reason to develop it. Clearly he’s able to shoot them now. We’ll never know what his 3-ball would have looked like if the 3-point revolution was under way when he came out.

[gouki88]

I think rookie LBJ vs rookie Luka is a very legit argument. Obviously we can't say that Luka is better than a guy with a near handful of MVP's and 3 rings, but I still think Doncic will spend a solid chunk of his career as a top 3-5 player in the league

[Who]

Rookie Doncic has been far superior than a rookie LeBron.

LeBron as a rookie played zero defense and was a highly inefficient scorer (49% TS%) who struggled to make jump-shots with any consistency.

LeBron as a rookie did not impact games nearly as much as Doncic has as a rookie.

[ETNCeltics]

lol there were people on this board downplaying how good of a prospect Doncic was.

[Moranis]

Rookie Doncic has been far superior than a rookie LeBron.

LeBron as a rookie played zero defense and was a highly inefficient scorer (49% TS%) who struggled to make jump-shots with any consistency.

LeBron as a rookie did not impact games nearly as much as Doncic has as a rookie.

Rookie Lebron had a net on/off per 100 possessions of +2.2.  Doncic is currently sitting at a -1.4.  Maybe Doncic doesn't impact winning quite as much you think as compared to Lebron.

[Boris Badenov]

I don't think it's a fair comparison, given the level of ball Luka has been playing at for the last few years. Lebron was in high school and Luka was playing in the top tier of international ball.

Even if Luka had less overall talent, you'd expect him to be a better "rookie."

[nickagneta]

I don't think it's insulting to Doncic to say he will not be the player either LeBron is or Bird was. But I don't think it's insulting to Bird and LeBron to say Doncic might be a better rookie than either Bird or LeBron was. Pretty much because Doncic has had professional training in basketball since he was 13. Neither Bird nor LeBron had that.

But I do believe there is a chance that Doncic is the best basketball player of the 2020s. Maybe he won't be as good as some of the All-time greats, but by being the best of his time, he could still become an All-time great.

[10610786d]

I don't think it's insulting to Doncic to say he will not be the player either LeBron is or Bird was. But I don't think it's insulting to Bird and LeBron to say Doncic might be a better rookie than either Bird or LeBron was. Pretty much because Doncic has had professional training in basketball since he was 13. Neither Bird nor LeBron had that.

But I do believe there is a chance that Doncic is the best basketball player of the 2020s. Maybe he won't be as good as some of the All-time greats, but by being the best of his time, he could still become an All-time great.

Heard somewhere Luka might have a lower ceiling than people are hyping him up for. He's already doing incredible things, like tremendous step back 3's, so where can he go from there.

Not to disagree with you on Luka's potential for greatness - in fact, I might even be agreeing with you - best of his generation, but "1b" to the top tier greats ... based on my impression of him anyway.

(Here I must disclaim, of course, that I'm mostly basing this off articles and podcasts and second hand information, since I only really watch the Celts...)

[KG Living Legend]

I don't think it's insulting to Doncic to say he will not be the player either LeBron is or Bird was. But I don't think it's insulting to Bird and LeBron to say Doncic might be a better rookie than either Bird or LeBron was. Pretty much because Doncic has had professional training in basketball since he was 13. Neither Bird nor LeBron had that.

But I do believe there is a chance that Doncic is the best basketball player of the 2020s. Maybe he won't be as good as some of the All-time greats, but by being the best of his time, he could still become an All-time great.

 TP to Who and Nick .well said.

[Sophomore]

Rookie Doncic has been far superior than a rookie LeBron.

LeBron as a rookie played zero defense and was a highly inefficient scorer (49% TS%) who struggled to make jump-shots with any consistency.

LeBron as a rookie did not impact games nearly as much as Doncic has as a rookie.

LBJ as a rookie hadn’t developed his game yet. He was so far superior physically to high school competition there was no need. Even in the pros his first year he was a decent scorer without a jump shot.

Luka has already developed a three-point shot because he came up ina different era, and because he had to. We’ll see how much better he gets. In year 2, LBJ improved his three point percentage six points and his PER by more than seven. If Luka does that I’ll be impressed.

As for defense, he’s not as bad as some feared, but if he ever makes an all-defense team I will eat my hat.

[Sophomore]

He’s obviously a very, very talented player.

I have to admit I instantly disliked his attitude. Seems really smug; a lot of smirking. Whines about every call. The announcers making veiled observations that he has a “strong personality.” 

[Somebody]

I don't understand how people use Bird as a comparison to Doncic in terms of athleticism-Bird was much more athletic than Doncic in the traditional run and jump, he has made a lot of dunks that you're accustomed to seeing from athletic players. Bird's eye hand coordination was also legendary, with moves that I don't think Doncic can imitate on a regular basis during games. I'm not saying Doncic is bad, he's an excellent prospect, but it's unfair to Bird to use him as an example for Doncic.

[timpiker]

Is he all pumped up full of steroids and looking like a 35 year old man at the age of 18?  Then, no way now how.

[tazzmaniac]

He’s obviously a very, very talented player.

I have to admit I instantly disliked his attitude. Seems really smug; a lot of smirking. Whines about every call. The announcers making veiled observations that he has a “strong personality.”

Assuming your a KG fan, knocking someone for having a strong personality is disingenuous.   

[tazzmaniac]

I don't think it's insulting to Doncic to say he will not be the player either LeBron is or Bird was. But I don't think it's insulting to Bird and LeBron to say Doncic might be a better rookie than either Bird or LeBron was. Pretty much because Doncic has had professional training in basketball since he was 13. Neither Bird nor LeBron had that.

But I do believe there is a chance that Doncic is the best basketball player of the 2020s. Maybe he won't be as good as some of the All-time greats, but by being the best of his time, he could still become an All-time great.

Better than Bird's rookie season?  I don't think so.  21.3 pts (47.4/40.6/83.6), 10.4 reb, 4.5 ast, 1.7 stl.   And of course the Celtics went from 29 wins the previous season to 61 wins and making the ECF.