Author Topic: Trump On His Shutdown: (It Could Last) Months Of Even Years  (Read 5797 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: Trump On His Shutdown: (It Could Last) Months Of Even Years
« Reply #30 on: January 05, 2019, 03:22:20 PM »

Offline TheReaLPuba

  • Kyrie Irving
  • Posts: 854
  • Tommy Points: 66
This “wall” will probably never be completed.

Trump just wants a lump sum funding for his buddies. Once he gets it this idea of “border security” changes from a silly wall to something else.

It will cost more money to tear down this incomplete wall while all the excess funding will be kept by the contractors.

In the multiple decades of immigration problems no one thought of a wall or barrier?

Trump is pure genius.

Re: Trump On His Shutdown: (It Could Last) Months Of Even Years
« Reply #31 on: January 05, 2019, 03:27:43 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

  • Ed Macauley
  • ***********
  • Posts: 11217
  • Tommy Points: 1322
With all this talk of how the Democrats need to compromise, compromise doesn't mean just give somebody part of what they demand, it's give and take. What's the "take"?  There was a clear one in the immigration bill that passed the Senate with 68 votes in 2013, that Boehner refused to allow a vote in the House. Ditto for the $25 billion for DACA agreement the White House scuttled last year.  What exactly are the Republicans offering in return for reneging on the resolution that unanimously passed the Senate?

This is a fair point.

If Trump and the R's in the Senate are resolute about this wall, they need to actually give the D's in the House something major in return.

There's little reason the funding couldn't come right out of the military budget.

I don't want to pay for a wall I don't think will be all that effective at fixing the immigration issue.  Paying for it with tax dollars already allocated elsewhere, in abundance, seems like the best compromise reachable.  It's basically a trade off one excessive expenditure for a different excessive expenditure.

Re: Trump On His Shutdown: (It Could Last) Months Of Even Years
« Reply #32 on: January 05, 2019, 03:38:52 PM »

Offline Neurotic Guy

  • Cedric Maxwell
  • **************
  • Posts: 14209
  • Tommy Points: 1554
Eh. That’s how checks and balances work.  Congress has had decades to address illegal immigration.  A President is finally doing something about it, which is his right and duty.

There’s plenty of room for compromise, Dems just don’t want to sell out their future voters.

Exactly Roy...good points...glad to know there are some here who don't fall for the CNN bull.

You know there’s bull on both sides, don’t you?  I’ll admit it on my preferred side (I am CNN over Fox, though I’m pretty much a moderate) — and yet I have NO interest in accusing or blaming the other side for the problem.  The reality is that both sides agree that the issue of border security and immigration reform must be addressed. And further, it seems to me that there is general agreement on many components of a sensible plan. Even “the wall”, which has become the battleground to die upon, has both sides in agreement that part of a sensible border security plan includes an element of strategic physical barrier.  Very few (if anyone at all) claims to want a 2000 mile Great Wall. ALL want some barrier.

Bottom line is both sides are political and both sides can play both tough and childish. I don’t care who is more stubborn or pigheaded today, because tomorrow the other side will be. Time for Pelosi, Schumer, McConnell and Trump to lay down their swords and propose something we can all live with that gets the govt open and gets the US on the road to an intelligent, implementable, firm and compassionate border and immigration plan.  Until that happens, blaming political parties or media outlets is folly and wasted energy.

 I want to like people like Roy and Maxwell Smart and Roscoe the Libertarian— why? Because we generally (not precisely, but generally) agree on most aspects of border/immigration, and we are decent citizens, good people, and Celtics fans.  I refuse to let Pelosi, Rand Paul, Ann Coulter, Rachel Maddow, or Donald Trump determine who I like or hate in this messed up dialogue and fractured political world. 

We need to end the nonsensical vitriol. Start by getting a Kasich, Haley, Romney, Biden, Manchin, Baker or Bloomberg... in the White House. 
« Last Edit: January 05, 2019, 06:40:59 PM by Neurotic Guy »

Re: Trump On His Shutdown: (It Could Last) Months Of Even Years
« Reply #33 on: January 05, 2019, 03:41:08 PM »

Offline PAOBoston

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3668
  • Tommy Points: 195
I’m not one to get super political but isn’t it just sad how virtually useless Congress is? These people legit cannot work together to accomplish anything whether is something as dumb a stupid wall or actual immigration reform. Just from a big picture perspective, it’s just really sad. Like, I can’t believe we actually vote these people in.

Re: Trump On His Shutdown: (It Could Last) Months Of Even Years
« Reply #34 on: January 05, 2019, 05:37:41 PM »

Online nickagneta

  • Global Moderator
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 35728
  • Tommy Points: 5898
Last I heard, without a wall, the US was able to hold back the thousands upon thousands of despicable criminals and terrorist that were posing as horribly suffering people in caravans that we're coming to America in October and November and threatened the American border. How did that happen without a wall?

Re: Trump On His Shutdown: (It Could Last) Months Of Even Years
« Reply #35 on: January 05, 2019, 05:52:11 PM »

Offline chicagoceltic

  • Al Horford
  • Posts: 679
  • Tommy Points: 144
Last I heard, without a wall, the US was able to hold back the thousands upon thousands of despicable criminals and terrorist that were posing as horribly suffering people in caravans that we're coming to America in October and November and threatened the American border. How did that happen without a wall?
Wow, I forgot about them...seems as though for some reason I haven't heard a peep about that caravan since November 6th.
Pub Draft

Sam N Ella's

At the Bar: The Most Interesting Man in the World
At the Door:  Hugh Hefner
On Stage:  O.A.R., Louis C.K., EDGAR! Special Drinks:  Irish Car Bomb, Martinis On Tap: Lite, Beamish, 3 Floyds Seasonal, Chimay Grand Reserve, Spotted Cow

Re: Trump On His Shutdown: (It Could Last) Months Of Even Years
« Reply #36 on: January 05, 2019, 07:38:10 PM »

Offline tazzmaniac

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4697
  • Tommy Points: 397
Last I heard, without a wall, the US was able to hold back the thousands upon thousands of despicable criminals and terrorist that were posing as horribly suffering people in caravans that we're coming to America in October and November and threatened the American border. How did that happen without a wall?
Because there is already 700 miles of fencing of various types along the 1900 mile border including between San Diego and Tijuana where the caravan is.  If I recall correctly when some of the caravan folks rushed the border, the gates in the fencing were closed.  Here's a good story on the existing fencing with photos. 
https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2018/12/politics/border-wall-cnnphotos/index.html     

Apparently Mexico has some fencing for their southern border with Guatamala. 
https://www.apnews.com/d52af53fc55b49cdbd320df9a19ff626


Re: Trump On His Shutdown: (It Could Last) Months Of Even Years
« Reply #38 on: January 09, 2019, 10:50:18 PM »

Offline slamtheking

  • Johnny Most
  • ********************
  • Posts: 20346
  • Tommy Points: 9079
https://www.vladtv.com/article/251317/gamblers-bet-on-trumps-lies-in-oval-office-address-win-more-than-270k
I can't believe they set the line at just 3.5.  bookies deserve to lose their money for such a low line.

Re: Trump On His Shutdown: (It Could Last) Months Of Even Years
« Reply #39 on: January 09, 2019, 11:01:41 PM »

Online liam

  • Cedric Maxwell
  • **************
  • Posts: 14905
  • Tommy Points: 1031
https://www.vladtv.com/article/251317/gamblers-bet-on-trumps-lies-in-oval-office-address-win-more-than-270k
I can't believe they set the line at just 3.5.  bookies deserve to lose their money for such a low line.

It's crazy low. I wish I had known in advance.... Free money!

Re: Trump On His Shutdown: (It Could Last) Months Of Even Years
« Reply #40 on: January 10, 2019, 12:10:58 AM »

Offline trickybilly

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4054
  • Tommy Points: 474
It's becoming increasingly difficult to engage in any sort of coherent, reasoned discussion about anything that this guy does. I'm not talking about the discussion with his supporters (although that can be extremely difficult), but just to analyse what he is saying properly, and to piece together some sort of framework for understanding the entire situation is now almost impossible.
"Gimme the ball, gimme the ball". Freddy Quimby, 1994.

Re: Trump On His Shutdown: (It Could Last) Months Of Even Years
« Reply #41 on: January 10, 2019, 12:21:30 AM »

Online liam

  • Cedric Maxwell
  • **************
  • Posts: 14905
  • Tommy Points: 1031
It's becoming increasingly difficult to engage in any sort of coherent, reasoned discussion about anything that this guy does. I'm not talking about the discussion with his supporters (although that can be extremely difficult), but just to analyse what he is saying properly, and to piece together some sort of framework for understanding the entire situation is now almost impossible.

Are the troops coming out of Syria, is Isis defeated, do we need a wall, do we know that most of the southern boarder is The Gulf of Mexico? Lots of questions....

Re: Trump On His Shutdown: (It Could Last) Months Of Even Years
« Reply #42 on: January 10, 2019, 02:36:02 AM »

Offline trickybilly

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4054
  • Tommy Points: 474
It's becoming increasingly difficult to engage in any sort of coherent, reasoned discussion about anything that this guy does. I'm not talking about the discussion with his supporters (although that can be extremely difficult), but just to analyse what he is saying properly, and to piece together some sort of framework for understanding the entire situation is now almost impossible.

Are the troops coming out of Syria, is Isis defeated, do we need a wall, do we know that most of the southern boarder is The Gulf of Mexico? Lots of questions....

I mean, "the wall", say what you like about it, might at least be his most coherent policy position. Misguided, retrograde, and fundamentally racist - but at least it's coherent.
"Gimme the ball, gimme the ball". Freddy Quimby, 1994.

Re: Trump On His Shutdown: (It Could Last) Months Of Even Years
« Reply #43 on: January 10, 2019, 05:15:22 AM »

Offline ImShakHeIsShaq

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7499
  • Tommy Points: 779
https://www.vladtv.com/article/251317/gamblers-bet-on-trumps-lies-in-oval-office-address-win-more-than-270k
I can't believe they set the line at just 3.5.  bookies deserve to lose their money for such a low line.

[dang], he averaged 15 lies a day last year, did they even try to look that up?? I wish I was betting!
It takes me 3hrs to get to Miami and 1hr to get to Orlando... but I *SPIT* on their NBA teams! "Bless God and bless the (Celts)"-Lady GaGa (she said gays but she really meant Celts)

Re: Trump On His Shutdown: (It Could Last) Months Of Even Years
« Reply #44 on: January 10, 2019, 06:52:51 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

  • Kevin Garnett
  • *****************
  • Posts: 17047
  • Tommy Points: 1120
Quote
I'm not talking about the discussion with his supporters (although that can be extremely difficult)

I find the opposite to be true, and that talking to people who don't like Pres. Trump, are just as irrational due to their hate as his followers.

Quote
Last I heard, without a wall, the US was able to hold back the thousands upon thousands of despicable criminals and terrorist that were posing as horribly suffering people in caravans that we're coming to America in October and November and threatened the American border. How did that happen without a wall?

Numbers have dropped to 370k, which is still a boat load of people.   I think Pres. Trump, pulled up the welcome mat and it is how it has happened.  Because where I live I saw a immediate reduction of Illegals in Ohio once he went into his office.  Also, keep in mind that some states like California, probably make no arrests in this regard and the numbers are probably much higher.   We did not have sanctuary cities back in the 80-90s though the reporters do not mention this in their articles.    But you have a huge state with a big latino population that is not cooperating.  But reporters omit this because it does not fit their narrative.

Right now 14 million of California's population is Latino. In 1990 the population were  7.5 Million Latino.   

http://www.cdss.ca.gov/research/res/pdf/multireports/DemoTrendsFinal.pdf
http://ucdata.berkeley.edu/pubs/latino1/ldbintro.html

So, this also could explain some of the drop.  Here is a great read on it:

Quote
Indeed, the number of individuals apprehended annually by Border Patrol officers has declined substantially from peaks in the 1980s and 1990s, a drop in line with heightened enforcement efforts beginning under President Bill Clinton. At the same time, USBP employs almost five times as many agents today as it did 25 years ago, meaning that each USBP agent is responsible for fewer apprehensions.

But this absolute view does not tell the whole story. While the total number of apprehensions has dropped, the composition of the group of people apprehended has shifted dramatically. Specifically, the number of people coming as families ("family units" in CBP jargon), and unaccompanied children ("UACs") has spiked, accounting for a majority of apprehensions in recent months.

At the same time, destabilization and violence in the "northern triangle"—El Salvador, Guatemala, and Honduras—have driven families and children to make the long, often dangerous trek north to attempt to illegally enter the United States. Whether such migrants qualify as humanitarian refugees or economic migrants is a matter of debate, with the line between those categories often blurry.

The boom in unaccompanied minors and family units is further exacerbated by laws which provide preferential treatment to UACs from the northern triangle and children with or without their guardians. Under the 2008 William Wilberforce Trafficking Victims Protection Reauthorization Act, DHS is obliged to release unaccompanied minors from "non-contiguous" countries (i.e. not Mexico) into the interior. And under current interpretation of the 1997 Flores settlement agreement, DHS can only detain any child—accompanied or not—for 20 days before releasing him into the interior.

The consequence of these rules is that minors, especially from non-contiguous countries, can expect to be released into the interior upon apprehension. Under previous policy, adults traveling with children expected not to be separated, and therefore also to be released. The Trump administration has attempted to address the Flores loophole first through its controversial family separation policy and then, subsequently, by instituting a rule meant to overturn Flores—said rule is likely to face legal challenges.
"Our southern border is a pipeline for vast quantities of illegal drugs, including meth, heroin, cocaine, and fentanyl," Trump said Tuesday.

The president is right about that. Most of the methamphetamine in the United States—which killed almost 11,000 people in 2017—is produced in cartel-run Mexican super-labs over the border. Most heroin is also Mexican, according to the Drug Enforcement Agency. Most cocaine is produced in Colombia, but almost 40 percent is smuggled through Mexico. And most fentanyl is produced in China, but Mexican drug traffickers play a role in the trade.

In other words, the southern border faces not only surging family and child immigration, but also an overwhelming drug problem—a dangerous combination.

From:

https://freebeacon.com/national-security/the-numbers-behind-a-border-crisis/

Walls work and this should not even be a talking point.   We have walls around prisons because they work.   Are they 100% effective, no, nothing is but they work and have worked for centuries.  People still escape prison but you can believe that a lot less people do because of the walls.  Are you for removing the walls?

Fiscally, is the real question, would the wall save us money or be a waste.   Is the cut down on drugs, worth it?

« Last Edit: January 10, 2019, 07:19:03 AM by Celtics4ever »

 

Hello! Guest

Welcome to the CelticsStrong Forums.

Community

Signup to win FREE tickets

* indicates required