Author Topic: Trump On His Shutdown: (It Could Last) Months Of Even Years  (Read 5794 times)

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Re: Trump On His Shutdown: (It Could Last) Months Of Even Years
« Reply #15 on: January 04, 2019, 05:34:56 PM »

Offline hwangjini_1

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years? ha ha ha....

1. people are not getting their tax refund taxes on time.
2. SNAP program is out of money in february (food assistance, a lot more Republicans than Dems are SNAP beneficiaries)
3. school lunches run out of funding in february.
4. No agricultural loans
5. Coast Guard pay runs out soon.
6. Once it hits a certain point essential employees not getting paid will quit to take new jobs and no one is going to sign on for no pay. So, fewer TSA workers? enjoy 4 hour TSA lines.
7. border patrol and ICE quitting en mass. FBI agents etc. again, no one new signs on for no pay.
8. and wait for the news stories from families of ICE, TSA, secret service, FBI, etc. as they suffer evictions, debts, etc. while their breadwinner gets no pay for working.

this aint going on for years.

p.s. and dont forget the contractors not getting paid either.
speak of the devil. i just saw this...

First on CNN: Hundreds of TSA screeners, working without pay, calling out sick at major airports, @Rene_MarshCNN and @gregorywallace report: http://www.cnn.com/2019/01/04/politics/shutdown-tsa-screening/index.html Ö

966
3:08 PM - Jan 4, 2019
I believe Gandhi is the only person who knew about real democracy ó not democracy as the right to go and buy what you want, but democracy as the responsibility to be accountable to everyone around you. Democracy begins with freedom from hunger, freedom from unemployment, freedom from fear, and freedom from hatred.
- Vandana Shiva

Re: Trump On His Shutdown: (It Could Last) Months Of Even Years
« Reply #16 on: January 04, 2019, 05:38:26 PM »

Offline hwangjini_1

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Eh. Thatís how checks and balances work.  Congress has had decades to address illegal immigration.  A President is finally doing something about it, which is his right and duty.

Thereís plenty of room for compromise, Dems just donít want to sell out their future voters.
sure, Dems have offered money for more border security, just not for a nonsense wall that Trump said Mexico would pay for.  why should Americans put their tax money towards that boondoggle?  as for the 'future voters' crack, that's pretty petty. 

as for congress not addressing it -- Reps have owned congress the past 8 years - didn't do a thing about it.  in fact, didn't they flip that congress from a 2-year Dem control running on Tea Party fiscal responsibility?  where's that gone?  (off topic a bit but saying you put this on congress and expecting something is pointless unless you're going to point out they didn't even do what they said they would do, not just this recent foolishness)

I thought that when I said ďdecadesĒ it was pretty clear it included both parties choosing to do nothing.

Reach a compromise. The President has a responsibility to stand up to Congressí inaction.
but they did take action and passed a number of different plans. trump turned them all down, one after first agreeing to it. i dont follow you here.

The Senate's plan was just yet another continuing resolution that didn't address immigration in any meaningful way.  The GOP House's plan included $5.7 billion for wall construction, which Trump would have passed.
first, yes the plan did address immigration by increasing border security, but no wall. the wall proposed by trump is a silly, ineffective, destructive to the environment, and expensive non-solution.

i work and talk with the mayors of two US cities directly on the border with mexico in texas, and a couple of mexican mayors as well. border security is a CRUCIAL issue down here. but the mayors, each and everyone of them, all agree that the wall proposed by trump is ineffective, destructive, and will not solve the problems down here since most of the smuggling and such come in other ways.

the experts here on the border think the wall is a losing, bad idea.

trump had many months to compromise on the wall and exchange it for border security that is effective. he has stuck like grim death to his silly wall idea instead.

p.s. and as long as i am posting here, i will pile on.  ;D the shouts about a terror crisis on the border and over 4,000 arrests in 2018 is bogus. another made up number. "According to public records and two ex-counterterror officials, no migrant has been arrested at the southwest border on terror charges in recent years."

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/immigration/fact-check-did-u-s-catch-4-000-terrorists-southern-n954796
 
« Last Edit: January 04, 2019, 05:45:03 PM by hwangjini_1 »
I believe Gandhi is the only person who knew about real democracy ó not democracy as the right to go and buy what you want, but democracy as the responsibility to be accountable to everyone around you. Democracy begins with freedom from hunger, freedom from unemployment, freedom from fear, and freedom from hatred.
- Vandana Shiva

Re: Trump On His Shutdown: (It Could Last) Months Of Even Years
« Reply #17 on: January 04, 2019, 05:44:40 PM »

Offline Phantom255x

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Trump SPECIFICALLY said Mexico would "pay for the wall" (lol)

Now he's demanding Congress and the US "fund it". Why?  ::)  ::)  ::)

Solving the issue of illegal immigration and border security is certainly a goal, but this is a stupid idea, a stupid investment, and Trump is starting to get exposed from all sides. Even the federal workers may start to turn on him especially the ones having to work without pay now.

Longer this goes on the uglier it will get.
"Tough times never last, but tough people do." - Robert H. Schuller

Re: Trump On His Shutdown: (It Could Last) Months Of Even Years
« Reply #18 on: January 04, 2019, 06:37:40 PM »

Online blink

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years? ha ha ha....

1. people are not getting their tax refund taxes on time.
2. SNAP program is out of money in february (food assistance, a lot more Republicans than Dems are SNAP beneficiaries)
3. school lunches run out of funding in february.
4. No agricultural loans
5. Coast Guard pay runs out soon.
6. Once it hits a certain point essential employees not getting paid will quit to take new jobs and no one is going to sign on for no pay. So, fewer TSA workers? enjoy 4 hour TSA lines.
7. border patrol and ICE quitting en mass. FBI agents etc. again, no one new signs on for no pay.
8. and wait for the news stories from families of ICE, TSA, secret service, FBI, etc. as they suffer evictions, debts, etc. while their breadwinner gets no pay for working.

this aint going on for years.

p.s. and dont forget the contractors not getting paid either.
speak of the devil. i just saw this...

First on CNN: Hundreds of TSA screeners, working without pay, calling out sick at major airports, @Rene_MarshCNN and @gregorywallace report: http://www.cnn.com/2019/01/04/politics/shutdown-tsa-screening/index.html Ö

966
3:08 PM - Jan 4, 2019

well now THAT could be a national economic emergency if major airlines start having flights impacted by disgruntled TSA workers, so Trump should sign the agreement with the Dems and reopen the gov. 

Re: Trump On His Shutdown: (It Could Last) Months Of Even Years
« Reply #19 on: January 04, 2019, 06:38:45 PM »

Offline heyvik

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years? ha ha ha....

1. people are not getting their tax refund taxes on time.
2. SNAP program is out of money in february (food assistance, a lot more Republicans than Dems are SNAP beneficiaries)
3. school lunches run out of funding in february.
4. No agricultural loans
5. Coast Guard pay runs out soon.
6. Once it hits a certain point essential employees not getting paid will quit to take new jobs and no one is going to sign on for no pay. So, fewer TSA workers? enjoy 4 hour TSA lines.
7. border patrol and ICE quitting en mass. FBI agents etc. again, no one new signs on for no pay.
8. and wait for the news stories from families of ICE, TSA, secret service, FBI, etc. as they suffer evictions, debts, etc. while their breadwinner gets no pay for working.

this aint going on for years.

p.s. and dont forget the contractors not getting paid either.
speak of the devil. i just saw this...

First on CNN: Hundreds of TSA screeners, working without pay, calling out sick at major airports, @Rene_MarshCNN and @gregorywallace report: http://www.cnn.com/2019/01/04/politics/shutdown-tsa-screening/index.html

966
3:08 PM - Jan 4, 2019
How long before we hear or see Right wing media saying that the TSA walkouts are Soros / Clinton funded?
« Last Edit: January 04, 2019, 07:14:11 PM by heyvik »

Re: Trump On His Shutdown: (It Could Last) Months Of Even Years
« Reply #20 on: January 04, 2019, 06:39:18 PM »

Online blink

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Trump SPECIFICALLY said Mexico would "pay for the wall" (lol)

Now he's demanding Congress and the US "fund it". Why?  ::)  ::)  ::)

Solving the issue of illegal immigration and border security is certainly a goal, but this is a stupid idea, a stupid investment, and Trump is starting to get exposed from all sides. Even the federal workers may start to turn on him especially the ones having to work without pay now.

Longer this goes on the uglier it will get.

If this goes on for a substantial amount of time, there will be a lot of political ads in 2020 talking about 'the trump shutdown' basically using the stock footage from the white house when Trump said it was on him.  that is if Trump lasts that long.

Re: Trump On His Shutdown: (It Could Last) Months Of Even Years
« Reply #21 on: January 04, 2019, 07:14:03 PM »

Offline Neurotic Guy

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From the bits and pieces of republican and democrat blurbs, written and spoken, it seems to me that there is actually a tremendous amount of agreement with regard to border security.  In fact, other than the word "wall", there seems to be a reasonably united political America on this issue.  Contrary to some accusations, I've heard absolutely no one at all who favors "open borders", in fact, most dems who I've heard think that idea is absurd.  Everyone seems to want a combination of physical border in key places, beefed up human presence/surveillance, beefed up technological surveillance, and clarified immigration and asylum policies, with beefed up capacity to enforce the law. This, along with a plan for addressing drug smuggling (I haven't a clue how -- nor does Trump), and a compassionate resolution for the Dreamers.

My wish is for dems to provide a sensible and comprehensive plan along with an "olive-branch" statement of agreement with Trump -- with regard to the need for border security and specifically a physical barrier in certain places (let him call it a wall).   Praise Trump for drumming up needed attention to the border challenges, and thank him for his (presumed) partnership in this historic proposal. 

In the interest of our country, the adults need to provide our child-President a way to save face.  Let him call it a win, let him call it a wall.   Get this over with and move on to Mueller and on to worrying about how we get through the next 2 years with as little damage to the future of the country as possible.   I am becoming less concerned about Trump's "base" as time moves on -- the key is putting up a non-despicable opponent.  I also think that a credible republican challenge may just force Donald to take his ball, tail between legs, and leave.

Re: Trump On His Shutdown: (It Could Last) Months Of Even Years
« Reply #22 on: January 04, 2019, 07:22:24 PM »

Offline BringToughnessBack

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As an independent voter, I more inclined to hold the side to blame that refuses any kind of compromise. The Democratic side will not budge on giving Trump any funds allocated for a barrier or wall that many of them supported years back. Why not make an offer in the middle to show willingness to compromise. They wonít and on the other side, Trump is not going to sign the bill that does not budge towards him in any manner.

The biggest thing that bothers me with this barrier/wall issue is that Clinton, Obama and Schumer were all for it in 2006. Clinton was for it just a few years back as well. If any other person was running the White House, the compromise would have happened. Instead, gridlock is now here.

Donít be so sure Trump caves to them. Time will tell but his ego is large and he wants that wall money. The closer we get to tax season, the more chaos is going to be served to the American public.

How do you negotiate with both sides being set in stone..Public statements from one side saying wonít sign unless wall and then from the other side saying no wall, no wall. Literally like five year old children fighting over candy when their is plenty of candy to go around. Meet in the middle and move on. Or perhaps offer something big to one side for giving in on this- I donít believe they will do that though.




Re: Trump On His Shutdown: (It Could Last) Months Of Even Years
« Reply #23 on: January 04, 2019, 07:24:03 PM »

Offline Phantom255x

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Trump SPECIFICALLY said Mexico would "pay for the wall" (lol)

Now he's demanding Congress and the US "fund it". Why?  ::)  ::)  ::)

Solving the issue of illegal immigration and border security is certainly a goal, but this is a stupid idea, a stupid investment, and Trump is starting to get exposed from all sides. Even the federal workers may start to turn on him especially the ones having to work without pay now.

Longer this goes on the uglier it will get.

If this goes on for a substantial amount of time, there will be a lot of political ads in 2020 talking about 'the trump shutdown' basically using the stock footage from the white house when Trump said it was on him.  that is if Trump lasts that long.

This might be where Trump really finds it difficult to come back from. Also did you hear the news about him possibly declaring a "national emergency" in order to get the border funding. D-E-L-U-S-I-O-N-A-L.

years? ha ha ha....

1. people are not getting their tax refund taxes on time.
2. SNAP program is out of money in february (food assistance, a lot more Republicans than Dems are SNAP beneficiaries)
3. school lunches run out of funding in february.
4. No agricultural loans
5. Coast Guard pay runs out soon.
6. Once it hits a certain point essential employees not getting paid will quit to take new jobs and no one is going to sign on for no pay. So, fewer TSA workers? enjoy 4 hour TSA lines.
7. border patrol and ICE quitting en mass. FBI agents etc. again, no one new signs on for no pay.
8. and wait for the news stories from families of ICE, TSA, secret service, FBI, etc. as they suffer evictions, debts, etc. while their breadwinner gets no pay for working.

this aint going on for years.

p.s. and dont forget the contractors not getting paid either.
speak of the devil. i just saw this...

First on CNN: Hundreds of TSA screeners, working without pay, calling out sick at major airports, @Rene_MarshCNN and @gregorywallace report: http://www.cnn.com/2019/01/04/politics/shutdown-tsa-screening/index.html Ö

966
3:08 PM - Jan 4, 2019




Love it. No one should be forced to work for free just because Trump is a moron (yeah I said it). I hope we start seeing more of this and frankly I think we will. Trump dug a hole that's too far to come back from. Longer this lasts, the more lasting effects it will have (all bad effects).
"Tough times never last, but tough people do." - Robert H. Schuller

Re: Trump On His Shutdown: (It Could Last) Months Of Even Years
« Reply #24 on: January 04, 2019, 07:47:40 PM »

Offline Rosco917

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Sometimes common sense isn't so common when political ideologies come into play.

I'm a libertarian, I voted for Johnson in the last election. I couldn't vote for either Hilary or Trump.

We should all have a desire to know who is entering our land. It doesn't matter... until you or someone close to you is harmed by a person that should never have been allowed in this Country in the first place. What is immoral is a desire to import voters, at the expense of the even the possibility of a US citizen being killed or injured by a person that crossed the border illegally. That's immoral.

Last year 17,000 of the captured illegals trying to enter this Country had previous arrest records.

All Countries around the World have either a controlled, dedicated border crossing or strict rules about hiring non-citizens. No Country in the World has illegals entering at the rate that our Southern border has. 

I don't care if Mexico pays for it or not, just build it. 

Re: Trump On His Shutdown: (It Could Last) Months Of Even Years
« Reply #25 on: January 05, 2019, 11:42:56 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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I have read that Pres. Trump may declare the border and national emergency and thereby build the wall.

Re: Trump On His Shutdown: (It Could Last) Months Of Even Years
« Reply #26 on: January 05, 2019, 11:45:40 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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I have read that Pres. Trump may declare the border and national emergency and thereby build the wall.

He might try, but the Dems will challenge it, and some District Court Judge will declare a nationwide injunction.


Once a CrotoNat, always a CrotoNat.  CelticsBlog Draft Champions, 2009 & 2012;
DKC Draft 2015 Champions and beyond...

Re: Trump On His Shutdown: (It Could Last) Months Of Even Years
« Reply #27 on: January 05, 2019, 12:24:00 PM »

Offline Sophomore

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As an independent voter, I more inclined to hold the side to blame that refuses any kind of compromise. The Democratic side will not budge on giving Trump any funds allocated for a barrier or wall that many of them supported years back. Why not make an offer in the middle to show willingness to compromise. They won’t and on the other side, Trump is not going to sign the bill that does not budge towards him in any manner.

The biggest thing that bothers me with this barrier/wall issue is that Clinton, Obama and Schumer were all for it in 2006. Clinton was for it just a few years back as well. If any other person was running the White House, the compromise would have happened. Instead, gridlock is now here.

Don’t be so sure Trump caves to them. Time will tell but his ego is large and he wants that wall money. The closer we get to tax season, the more chaos is going to be served to the American public.

How do you negotiate with both sides being set in stone..Public statements from one side saying won’t sign unless wall and then from the other side saying no wall, no wall. Literally like five year old children fighting over candy when their is plenty of candy to go around. Meet in the middle and move on. Or perhaps offer something big to one side for giving in on this- I don’t believe they will do that though.

With respect, this is simply wrong. There was an offer on the table to give trump $25 billion - five times what he is asking for now – in exchange for a solution to the problem of dreamers. He turned that down.

Then there was an offer to provide funds for border security, without specifically labeling it a wall. He turned that down too.

Now, there is an offer on the table to restart the government and begin negotiations on this question. The idea is to try to see if we can come to a solution without holding a gun to the head of the rest of the government. That idea passed the Senate in December, and was about to become a law, when Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter, and the rest of the extreme right wing began shouting. Trump created a government shut down for the sole purpose of showing his base that he was willing to fight. He doesn’t want a solution. He wants the issue.

There is nobody who is serious on the issue of immigration – even many strongly restrictionist groups – who believe that a “wall” is essential to border security. There are large stretches of the border where we would have to take a lot of private land, or where rivers and other natural features make a wall impractical. This is 100% about symbolism and politics. It has nothing to do with actually securing the border.

 Also, just for what it’s worth, funding for border security and employment of border agents has been going up dramatically over the past few decades, and the number of people crossing the border has been going steadily down. There is no crisis. Except for the crisis in Trump’s approval rating.

Re: Trump On His Shutdown: (It Could Last) Months Of Even Years
« Reply #28 on: January 05, 2019, 01:34:42 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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With all this talk of how the Democrats need to compromise, compromise doesn't mean just give somebody part of what they demand, it's give and take. What's the "take"?  There was a clear one in the immigration bill that passed the Senate with 68 votes in 2013, that Boehner refused to allow a vote in the House. Ditto for the $25 billion for DACA agreement the White House scuttled last year.  What exactly are the Republicans offering in return for reneging on the resolution that unanimously passed the Senate?

Re: Trump On His Shutdown: (It Could Last) Months Of Even Years
« Reply #29 on: January 05, 2019, 03:04:28 PM »

Offline 86MaxwellSmart

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Eh. Thatís how checks and balances work.  Congress has had decades to address illegal immigration.  A President is finally doing something about it, which is his right and duty.

Thereís plenty of room for compromise, Dems just donít want to sell out their future voters.

Exactly Roy...good points...glad to know there are some here who don't fall for the CNN bull.
Larry Bird was Greater than you think.

 

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