Author Topic: Trump pulls US troops out of Syria, declares 'victory'.  (Read 1456 times)

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Trump pulls US troops out of Syria, declares 'victory'.
« on: December 19, 2018, 01:41:25 PM »

Offline mmmmm

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NBA Officiating - Corrupt?  Incompetent?  Which is worse?  Does it matter?  It sucks.

Re: Trump pulls US troops out of Syria, declares 'victory'.
« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2018, 01:45:01 PM »

Offline hpantazo

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While I believe the U.S. should not be occupying any foreign territory long-term, this feels like a misguided effort to distract from the current issues regarding the Mueller investigation, and to proclaim some sort of accomplishment. I really hope it doesn't end up costing many lives in the long run.

Re: Trump pulls US troops out of Syria, declares 'victory'.
« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2018, 01:49:13 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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sounds good to me


Re: Trump pulls US troops out of Syria, declares 'victory'.
« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2018, 01:53:18 PM »

Offline Vermont Green

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It is so hard for an average citizen (or in my case maybe below average?) to judge a move like this as we just don't have all the information.  I have to admit that my initial reaction is to distrust Trump so I am fearful that there is an underlying motivation that is corrupt but who knows really.

That underlying motivation may be distraction, it may be something related to Russia pulling Trump's strings, it may relate to Middle Eastern money and the Trump organization, and there is even a remote possibility that it is Trump trying to do the right thing.

In the end, whether we stay or go, I don't think it is going to make much difference to the people of Syria.  They are F-ed either way.

Re: Trump pulls US troops out of Syria, declares 'victory'.
« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2018, 01:53:47 PM »

Online Roy H.

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Syria has always been a no-win situation. Get out now, or get out in 10 years. I donít think it will change the outcome in any positive way.


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Re: Trump pulls US troops out of Syria, declares 'victory'.
« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2018, 01:54:34 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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I have very mixed feelings about it - I don't like how much resources we put into countries like Syria, especially when it's choices like ISIS or Assad, who are both monstrous in their own way. But I really don't like the possibility of major destabilization when we leave, or the false stability of brutal tyranny, and enabling rival nations (mainly Russia and Turkey) to exert more and more influence in the region. And I really, really, REALLY don't like the fact that the second position tends to lead to something like a permanent stalemate occupation.

The declaring victory part is of course absurd and we'll almost certainly see a resurgence of ISIS and other rebel factions when we go.  But that's par for the course.

Re: Trump pulls US troops out of Syria, declares 'victory'.
« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2018, 02:02:05 PM »

Offline mmmmm

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I have very mixed feelings about it - I don't like how much resources we put into countries like Syria, especially when it's choices like ISIS or Assad, who are both monstrous in their own way. But I really don't like the possibility of major destabilization when we leave, or the false stability of brutal tyranny, and enabling rival nations (mainly Russia and Turkey) to exert more and more influence in the region. And I really, really, REALLY don't like the fact that the second position tends to lead to something like a permanent stalemate occupation.

The declaring victory part is of course absurd and we'll almost certainly see a resurgence of ISIS and other rebel factions when we go.  But that's par for the course.

The more likely long term outcome is complete crushing of remaining ISIS and rebel factions because Assad and Putin will have no check in the region.  They will likely wipe out any resistance now, regardless of any collateral damage to citizens, secure control over the entire region and justify it by claiming, "fighting terrorism".

The real reason for maintaining US presence there was not to check ISIS.  It was to check Assad and the Russians.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt?  Incompetent?  Which is worse?  Does it matter?  It sucks.

Re: Trump pulls US troops out of Syria, declares 'victory'.
« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2018, 02:04:07 PM »

Offline More Banners

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The Kurds are about to get slaughtered.

While there has never been a possibility of a graceful way out of this (or likely many other) foreign entanglement, this particular option reinforces what a fickle ally the US is.  Yet it's the development of these military support/train and equip relationships and not just defense treaties that could drag us into war.  In for a penny, I suppose.

But really, the constitutional authority for military action going on across the globe right now is, at best, thin.  Wouldn't be surprised to see congress acting as a check to the exec on some of this.

I guess there was little chance of the Kurds turning around and going back to Iraqi Kurdistan after ISIS battles drew down. Or the Iranians. Or the Russians. Not much point in the US sticking around doing what, occupying territory in the middle of this mess?  Defend the Kurds against our treaty military ally where we base nukes?  Declare victory and go home was the only and inevitable option.

Re: Trump pulls US troops out of Syria, declares 'victory'.
« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2018, 04:31:19 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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I have very mixed feelings about it - I don't like how much resources we put into countries like Syria, especially when it's choices like ISIS or Assad, who are both monstrous in their own way. But I really don't like the possibility of major destabilization when we leave, or the false stability of brutal tyranny, and enabling rival nations (mainly Russia and Turkey) to exert more and more influence in the region. And I really, really, REALLY don't like the fact that the second position tends to lead to something like a permanent stalemate occupation.

The declaring victory part is of course absurd and we'll almost certainly see a resurgence of ISIS and other rebel factions when we go.  But that's par for the course.

The more likely long term outcome is complete crushing of remaining ISIS and rebel factions because Assad and Putin will have no check in the region.  They will likely wipe out any resistance now, regardless of any collateral damage to citizens, secure control over the entire region and justify it by claiming, "fighting terrorism".

I think it's plausibly both. They'll probably go harder to secure Syria, but the Russians have an even worse record squelching Middle Eastern insurgencies than we do. Agree on the international power struggle being the major political motivation but for me it's the humanitarian problems (that probably aren't ever solved either way).



So journalists are starting to ask questions about this and lol - no discussion with Pentagon, no timeline, no details on nature of drawout or how decisions was made. Nothing. Now to see if it actually happens.

Re: Trump pulls US troops out of Syria, declares 'victory'.
« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2018, 04:49:34 PM »

Offline Bobshot

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I think most Americans want ALL the troops out of the Middle East. It's about time. This thing has become another Vietnam. You just know this place is going to settle into some norm no matter what the US does. So get out.

What's more important is the stock market that nobody seems to be mentioning in the news. It's crashing. And has been since Trump announced the China tariffs. The market rallied when it was announced there was a three month truce on tariffs after meeting with the China leader; but once again Trump, policy-making on the tweets, tweeted he was "the Tariff President." So the market declined again. Now the Fed has just raised interest rates again, and that has killed any chance of a year end market rally.

Coupled with the probability that Mueller will drop the hammer after Jan 1st when the Democrats take over Congress, the message for the New Year is "Fasten your seat belts, it's going to be a bumpy ride."

Re: Trump pulls US troops out of Syria, declares 'victory'.
« Reply #10 on: December 19, 2018, 05:45:20 PM »

Online Celtics4ever

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It is less of a mess there than when Pres. Obama did nothing.

Re: Trump pulls US troops out of Syria, declares 'victory'.
« Reply #11 on: December 19, 2018, 05:59:39 PM »

Offline Neurotic Guy

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I agree with notion that regular folk like me (and I assume most of us) canít know all the implications of a move like this.   What is most pertinent to me is my lack of trust in Trumpís competence to make important decisions and my belief  that he makes impulsive decisions with limited input.  And I worry that Stephen Miller is becoming the sole survivor in terms of policy advisors. Tells me Millerís input aligns with (or helps form) Trumpís instincts.  And I really donít trust Miller who has an ideological compass that is not pointed in a direction that brings me comfort.

Re: Trump pulls US troops out of Syria, declares 'victory'.
« Reply #12 on: December 19, 2018, 06:22:24 PM »

Online Somebody

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He's definitely winning against China lol

Re: Trump pulls US troops out of Syria, declares 'victory'.
« Reply #13 on: December 19, 2018, 07:43:33 PM »

Offline BringToughnessBack

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If this withdrawal leads to extermination of the Kurds, this will be far from a victory. Why not stay until peaceful terms have been negotiated unless something has already been brokered without official statements. This might be one move both parties do not support and it could truly backfire if ISIS is to reassert themselves or if Syria moves in for final kill. The Kurds now will have no deterrent to Turkey, ISIS, Syria and perhaps Russia moving in on them. Israel is going to be very busy once again soon enough when Iranian missiles start pouring back into Syria.

Re: Trump pulls US troops out of Syria, declares 'victory'.
« Reply #14 on: December 19, 2018, 09:14:41 PM »

Online freshinthehouse

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I dont like Trump, but pulling troops from Syria is the right move.  We never should've been there to begin with.

 

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