Author Topic: Texas woman fired because she doesn't support Israel  (Read 760 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: Texas woman fired because she doesn't support Israel
« Reply #15 on: December 18, 2018, 02:43:35 PM »

Offline ederson

  • Bailey Howell
  • **
  • Posts: 2380
  • Tommy Points: 242
Quote
she must also pledge to refrain from any action ďthat is intended to penalize, inflict economic harm on, or limit commercial relations with Israel or with a person or entity doing business in Israel,Ē


That is b#######t. I don't understand how this is even debatable. Unless Texas has a case that she is racist I really hope she kicks their #####

Re: Texas woman fired because she doesn't support Israel
« Reply #16 on: December 18, 2018, 02:44:18 PM »

Offline kraidstar

  • Jim Loscutoff
  • **
  • Posts: 2514
  • Tommy Points: 644
Support is not the same as not boycott.   

The pledge is clearly meant to show support. There is no credible reason otherwise why it would exist.

BTW do you think there are any pledges involving Peru, or Denmark, or Malaysia? No.

This pledge is political and religious in nature, and is a clear violation of the Constitution.

This was my first thought and pretty much says it all. Boycott seems to be a strong word, but I think it was one of those things that if you aren't with them, you are considered against them. Religious beliefs have no place in law.
Are there any groups like BDS boycotting Peru, or Denmark, or Malaysia?

I have no clue. But those nations aren't at the center of a dispute among three of the world's major religions.
Different topic, but BDS is about antisemitism not religion.

According to their website:

The Boycott, Divestment, Sanctions (BDS) movement works to end international support for Israel's oppression of Palestinians and pressure Israel to comply with international law.

The United Nations determined that Israel's settlements in Palestinian territory has indeed violated international law.

https://www.un.org/press/en/2016/sc12657.doc.htm

It's an enormous stretch to say that anyone who agrees is an anti-semite. Just as it's a stretch to say that anyone who supports Zionism is a flaming racist - a racist like Netanyahu's son, who just got kicked off of Facebook.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/17/world/middleeast/yair-netanyahu-facebook-hate-speech.html

The vast majority of people are pretty reasonable, it is the fringes that are causing most of the problems.

Re: Texas woman fired because she doesn't support Israel
« Reply #17 on: December 18, 2018, 02:55:36 PM »

Offline sgrogan

  • Daniel Theis
  • Posts: 14
  • Tommy Points: 1
If refusing not to boycott something is Free speech wouldn't refusing to boycott something also be Free speech?

Re: Texas woman fired because she doesn't support Israel
« Reply #18 on: December 18, 2018, 03:13:21 PM »

Offline Roy H.

  • Forums Manager
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 37748
  • Tommy Points: -27460
  • 33,333 posts and counting . . .
In theory, I donít mind contracts like this. I had a similar rule at work when working for the NJ Attorney Generalís Office, attorneys werenít allowed to advocate public political positions.  We were trading our First Amendment rights for a job, and I didnít mind that.

Here, I have more of an issue with it because the concern isnít limited to public behavior. 


Once a CrotoNat, always a CrotoNat.  CelticsBlog Draft Champions, 2009 & 2012;
DKC Draft 2015 Champions and beyond...

Re: Texas woman fired because she doesn't support Israel
« Reply #19 on: December 18, 2018, 04:03:24 PM »

Offline Vermont Green

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4329
  • Tommy Points: 362
My take on this is how about if the law said that you had to agree to support gay couples (you know, the whole wedding cake, religious freedom thing) before you could contract with the State of Mass.  This would be as wrong as this crazy Israel thing.

Why does someone have a right to choose not to sell a wedding cake to a gay couple but not have the right to choose not to sell a wedding cake to Israel?  I know that Israel would not buy a wedding cake but if you try, I think you can understand my point.  Think double standard.

This is wrong on so many common sense fronts.  This does not need to be over-analyzed.  The State of Texas should be picking contractors who provide the best value to the taxpayers of Texas.  Period.  Your political view on Israeli settlements and the eternal Palestine conflict should not be a factor at all.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2018, 05:10:57 PM by Vermont Green »

Re: Texas woman fired because she doesn't support Israel
« Reply #20 on: December 18, 2018, 04:19:45 PM »

Offline Vermont Green

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4329
  • Tommy Points: 362
In theory, I donít mind contracts like this. I had a similar rule at work when working for the NJ Attorney Generalís Office, attorneys werenít allowed to advocate public political positions.  We were trading our First Amendment rights for a job, and I didnít mind that.

Here, I have more of an issue with it because the concern isnít limited to public behavior.

This is so not the same thing, in fact it is just the opposite.  The State of Texas is forcing you to take a specific political position on something that has nothing to do with the business you are trying to contract for.  What NJ was asking you to do as Public Office Holder was avoid any appearance of conflict of interest.  If you did have a conflict of interest, it would have the potential to influence your handling of a case for which you are representing the people of the State.

Re: Texas woman fired because she doesn't support Israel
« Reply #21 on: December 18, 2018, 06:19:49 PM »

Offline coco

  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1682
  • Tommy Points: 101
I am in support of Israel 100%;  Having said that, it is Hard to find a country who spies on us  - or tries to influence our elections- more than Israel does.
 
Friends? Yes!  ...but letís not fool ourselves thinking there isnít an agenda.  It is something the Obama administration understood very clearly.  And the reason why there was a rift between Israel  and the previous administration.

...just saying

Re: Texas woman fired because she doesn't support Israel
« Reply #22 on: December 18, 2018, 06:41:14 PM »

Offline sgrogan

  • Daniel Theis
  • Posts: 14
  • Tommy Points: 1
This is based on federal law that controls interstate and foreign commerce.
https://www.bis.doc.gov/index.php/enforcement/oac#boycottlaws
I believe going back to the Carter administration.

It's back in the news because of a UNHRC resolution
https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/1697

I believe that the Texas law goes too far, but I think we could agree that the boycott couldn't extend to include denial of services to an Israeli foreign exchange student.

The fact that the speech pathologist is an individual contractor complicates things. If she was an employee of a company, the company would be prohibited from participating in the boycott, but she would retain her rights as an individual.

   

Re: Texas woman fired because she doesn't support Israel
« Reply #23 on: December 18, 2018, 10:41:24 PM »

Offline Moranis

  • Global Moderator
  • Johnny Most
  • ********************
  • Posts: 20949
  • Tommy Points: 998
No the fact that she is a contractor actually simplifies this a great deal as contractors have far fewer rights and protections then employees.

Frankly I don't see this requirement any differently than any morals clause in any independent contractor (or even employment) contract.  I mean Religious Schools make their teachers agree to all sorts of things and those are perfectly legal.  Now granted those aren't based on state laws making this scenario slightly different but the actions of the school really aren't.

Re: Texas woman fired because she doesn't support Israel
« Reply #24 on: December 19, 2018, 10:10:26 AM »

Offline Walker Wiggle

  • Semi Ojeleye
  • Posts: 44
  • Tommy Points: 18
This is only tangentially related, but Ezra Klein and Peter Beinart did a great podcast episode recently on being Jewish Americans amid the apparent rise of anti-semitism as well as their conflicted feelings about Israeli politics.

https://art19.com/shows/the-ezra-klein-show/episodes/192cb837-f673-473e-a817-5d5ca63bdf67

Re: Texas woman fired because she doesn't support Israel
« Reply #25 on: December 19, 2018, 10:53:08 AM »

Offline kraidstar

  • Jim Loscutoff
  • **
  • Posts: 2514
  • Tommy Points: 644
No the fact that she is a contractor actually simplifies this a great deal as contractors have far fewer rights and protections then employees.

Frankly I don't see this requirement any differently than any morals clause in any independent contractor (or even employment) contract.  I mean Religious Schools make their teachers agree to all sorts of things and those are perfectly legal.  Now granted those aren't based on state laws making this scenario slightly different but the actions of the school really aren't.

This isn't Hank Hill (propane grill shop owner/advocate from the "King of the Hill" TV series) asking a potential employee about whether a potential employee likes charcoal better than propane.

It's the government asking you about personal political and religious beliefs that have nothing to do with your job. Which is a violation of the first amendment. It's a religious test and an attack on free speech. Both antithetical to the most basic and easy to understand principles the USA has to offer.

This isn't complicated.

Re: Texas woman fired because she doesn't support Israel
« Reply #26 on: December 19, 2018, 11:00:11 AM »

Offline kraidstar

  • Jim Loscutoff
  • **
  • Posts: 2514
  • Tommy Points: 644
The irony about this situation is that a person couldn't boycott the Palestinians even if they wanted to. The Gaza Strip economy is ruined due to a decade-long Israeli blockade.

So the Palestinians are basically permanently boycotted by everyone, intentionally or not.

I don't think most Americans realize how bad it is in those ghettos. There's a reason for the international outrage. Stifling free speech about that here at home is sinister.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/gaza-economy-palestinian-world-bank-israel-west-bank-a8554466.html


Re: Texas woman fired because she doesn't support Israel
« Reply #27 on: December 19, 2018, 11:07:14 AM »

Offline Roy H.

  • Forums Manager
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 37748
  • Tommy Points: -27460
  • 33,333 posts and counting . . .
No the fact that she is a contractor actually simplifies this a great deal as contractors have far fewer rights and protections then employees.

Frankly I don't see this requirement any differently than any morals clause in any independent contractor (or even employment) contract.  I mean Religious Schools make their teachers agree to all sorts of things and those are perfectly legal.  Now granted those aren't based on state laws making this scenario slightly different but the actions of the school really aren't.

This isn't Hank Hill (propane grill shop owner/advocate from the "King of the Hill" TV series) asking a potential employee about whether a potential employee likes charcoal better than propane.

It's the government asking you about personal political and religious beliefs that have nothing to do with your job. Which is a violation of the first amendment. It's a religious test and an attack on free speech. Both antithetical to the most basic and easy to understand principles the USA has to offer.

This isn't complicated.

I donít think being anti-Israel is necessarily a religious test.  Boycotting Israel doesnít imply somebody is a Muslim. Any religion might be opposed to Israelís methods.

And, Iím not sure if itís illegal to discriminate on the basis of political viewpoint.


Once a CrotoNat, always a CrotoNat.  CelticsBlog Draft Champions, 2009 & 2012;
DKC Draft 2015 Champions and beyond...

Re: Texas woman fired because she doesn't support Israel
« Reply #28 on: December 19, 2018, 11:42:01 AM »

Offline Moranis

  • Global Moderator
  • Johnny Most
  • ********************
  • Posts: 20949
  • Tommy Points: 998
No the fact that she is a contractor actually simplifies this a great deal as contractors have far fewer rights and protections then employees.

Frankly I don't see this requirement any differently than any morals clause in any independent contractor (or even employment) contract.  I mean Religious Schools make their teachers agree to all sorts of things and those are perfectly legal.  Now granted those aren't based on state laws making this scenario slightly different but the actions of the school really aren't.

This isn't Hank Hill (propane grill shop owner/advocate from the "King of the Hill" TV series) asking a potential employee about whether a potential employee likes charcoal better than propane.

It's the government asking you about personal political and religious beliefs that have nothing to do with your job. Which is a violation of the first amendment. It's a religious test and an attack on free speech. Both antithetical to the most basic and easy to understand principles the USA has to offer.

This isn't complicated.

I donít think being anti-Israel is necessarily a religious test.  Boycotting Israel doesnít imply somebody is a Muslim. Any religion might be opposed to Israelís methods.

And, Iím not sure if itís illegal to discriminate on the basis of political viewpoint.
that is my take.  I mean look at all the political appointees and their actual beliefs.  Do you think the President, Governors, Mayors, etc. don't ask (or already know) the political beliefs of the people they appoint to various positions.  And people get fired from those positions all of the time for the things they say, post, etc. 

 

Hello! Guest

Welcome to the CelticsStrong Forums.

Community

Signup to win FREE tickets

* indicates required