Author Topic: Apparent Election Fraud in NC-9  (Read 1169 times)

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Re: Apparent Election Fraud in NC-9
« Reply #15 on: December 06, 2018, 10:32:22 AM »

Offline heyvik

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I really, really, REALLY want to hear from people like Paul Ryan, Individual 1, Individual 1 Jr, and others who have been touting voter fraud as a real problem in our country. I want them to address this as proof positive of their concerns, and relate how the measures they want to adopt would've stopped it. I want that so very very much Santy Clause if you just get me that I'll be good all year I promise!

I suspect this is your point but Ryan and Individual 1 have not suggested any voter reforms that would have addressed this at all.  They are only about voter ID requirements because it is pretty clear that this type of requirement would impact minority voters the most.  I also understand the motivation for reducing polling stations selectively to make it harder for minority voters to vote.  All pretty transparent.  And the gerrymandering, wow, that is so obviously partisan.

I don't understand why they want to limit early/absentee voting though.  They must believe that this is helping Republicans somehow but I don't understand why.


Genuinely curious how you come to the conclusion/assumption that a minority would have less access to a driver's license or photo ID.  I may be ignorant, but I was under the assumption that every american citizen have the capability of obtaining such identification.  How does one pick up prescriptions, or open/maintain a bank account, etc. without an ID? ...unless you're talking about people living here illegally, then I would ask you what right a foreign citizen would have that allows them to vote in US elections?

Ever seen cash checking stores all over poor areas? It's because the banks don't open branches there, and a lot of the residents don't have bank accounts. Generally speaking, minorities do have the ability to get ID, but disproportionately don't for various reasons. Given a new Voter ID law, many people are going to either a) have to get one just to vote, or b) not know and show up without one.

Ideally yes, everyone can get one, but in the absence of actual voter fraud the direct result is suppressing the vote in certain socioeconomic areas.

You can also do what Alabama did, and pass a law requiring ID then close down every DMV in primarily black counties.  Or what I believe Wisconsin and a couple others did and not allow state college IDs (disproportionately used by D voters) but do allow hunting licenses (disproportionately used by R voters). Or sell the ID bill by including an advertising campaign to explain the new requirements to poor voters then refuse to fund it (Wisconsin again). Or you can go all out like North Carolina and just order a report on voting practices and ID broken down by race and ban the ones most disproportionately used by black voters.

There are lots of ways to game it, and over a large enough population adding more barriers to the vote inevitably suppresses the kinds of votes you don't want, or at minimum causes the opposition to burn through resources getting their voters over those barriers. Which is, of course, the whole point.


Thank you for pointing this out FWF. We can create all the laws we want to that STOP ILLEGAL ALIENS from voting, but we will ALWAYS hear crickets from Republican lawmakers about making it EASIER (or at least removing hurdles) for LAWFUL citizens from voting. Your post clearly points out ALL the hurdles that are put up by LOCAL governments to suppress voting. That's also why a number of Republicans tend to want smaller and local government. However, they fail to see this side of the coin, where you have LOCAL lawmakers, some of who WANT to stay in power regardless of voting outcomes, suppressing voting rights.

Re: Apparent Election Fraud in NC-9
« Reply #16 on: December 06, 2018, 11:41:42 AM »

Online Roy H.

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Lock ‘em up. Then, hold a special election, and bill anybody found guilty for restitution.

And reform the absentee ballot system.
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Re: Apparent Election Fraud in NC-9
« Reply #17 on: December 06, 2018, 12:36:56 PM »

Offline Moranis

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The real election fraud is ridiculous jerry mandering.  Take my state of Ohio.  There are 16 US House Districts.  12 went Republican and 4 went Democratic.  In that last election 4,260,523 people voted for either Republicans or Democrats (a few races had a 3rd party, I didn't include them).  Republicans had 2,245,403 or 52.7% of the votes, while Democrats had 2,015,120 or 47.3% of the votes.  Yet Republicans have 75% of the seats.  That is the real voter fraud, fully sanctioned by all levels of government. 
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Re: Apparent Election Fraud in NC-9
« Reply #18 on: December 06, 2018, 12:59:31 PM »

Offline Vermont Green

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The executive director of the North Carolina Republican Party says he supports a new election if allegations of fraud in the 9th Congressional District race are proven true and it impacted the outcome of the race.

"We are not ready to call for a new election yet," Woodhouse added. "I think we have to let the board of elections come show their hand if they can show that this conceivably could have flipped the race in that neighborhood, we will absolutely support a new election."

Quote
Woodhouse defended Harris, calling him a "good man" and said there's "no way he knew about this stuff and sanctioned it."

https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/06/politics/north-carolina-republicans-new-election/index.html

So the gracious GOP is saying that if board of elections can prove that the blatantly illegal activity carried out by the man hired by candidate Harris (a Baptist minister by the way) in fact affected the outcome of the election, they would agree to a new election with Harris running again.

How about if it is proven that there was illegal activity, then Harris and maybe this executive director go to jail.  Then yes, have another election.  Actually, would moderate republicans and independents actually vote for this guy again knowing what went down?  Does the GOP think he could just run again and everyone would vote the same?

Re: Apparent Election Fraud in NC-9
« Reply #19 on: December 06, 2018, 06:15:36 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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The real election fraud is ridiculous jerry mandering.  Take my state of Ohio.  There are 16 US House Districts.  12 went Republican and 4 went Democratic.  In that last election 4,260,523 people voted for either Republicans or Democrats (a few races had a 3rd party, I didn't include them).  Republicans had 2,245,403 or 52.7% of the votes, while Democrats had 2,015,120 or 47.3% of the votes.  Yet Republicans have 75% of the seats.  That is the real voter fraud, fully sanctioned by all levels of government.

It is also true in Ohio, that a few urban counties are blue and the majority of the rest of the state in red.

https://www.politico.com/election-results/2018/ohio/

See

Re: Apparent Election Fraud in NC-9
« Reply #20 on: December 07, 2018, 02:15:45 PM »

Offline Moranis

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The real election fraud is ridiculous jerry mandering.  Take my state of Ohio.  There are 16 US House Districts.  12 went Republican and 4 went Democratic.  In that last election 4,260,523 people voted for either Republicans or Democrats (a few races had a 3rd party, I didn't include them).  Republicans had 2,245,403 or 52.7% of the votes, while Democrats had 2,015,120 or 47.3% of the votes.  Yet Republicans have 75% of the seats.  That is the real voter fraud, fully sanctioned by all levels of government.

It is also true in Ohio, that a few urban counties are blue and the majority of the rest of the state in red.

https://www.politico.com/election-results/2018/ohio/

See
Sure but you shouldn't have 53% of the votes and 75% of the seats.  Here is the map

https://www.sos.state.oh.us/globalassets/publications/maps/2012-2022/congressional_2012-2020_districtmap.pdf

Marcy Kaptur's Democratic 9th District is the absolute definition of gerry mandering at its finest.  No one should represent western Toledo suburbs, Toledo, and then across the whole top of the state into Cleveland and many Cleveland suburbs.  It is absolutely ridiculous.  Then when you couple that with the same sort of nonsense they do with her district when what they do with the 11th (Marcia Fudge), which is also a long skinny snake, which covers the rest of Cleveland and down through Akron.  Then they take the rest of Akron and spread it through Youngstown to get Tim Ryan's 13th District.  So Toledo, Akron, Cleveland, and Youngstown end up with just 3 Democratic seats, when in reality their population should yield for 5 or 6 Democratic seats.  The way the map is drawn, Cincinnati and Dayton don't even yield a Democrat representative and Columbus, which is by far the most populous city in the State yields only Joyce Beatty's 3rd District.  So of the 4 biggest cities in the state Columbus, Cleveland, Cincinnati, and Toledo have 2 just Democrats representing them.  It is astonishing and it is absolutely a real problem that needs to be addressed. 
« Last Edit: December 08, 2018, 07:18:10 PM by Moranis »
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Re: Apparent Election Fraud in NC-9
« Reply #21 on: December 09, 2018, 04:00:29 AM »

Offline Hoopvortex

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The real election fraud is ridiculous jerry mandering.  Take my state of Ohio.  There are 16 US House Districts.  12 went Republican and 4 went Democratic.  In that last election 4,260,523 people voted for either Republicans or Democrats (a few races had a 3rd party, I didn't include them).  Republicans had 2,245,403 or 52.7% of the votes, while Democrats had 2,015,120 or 47.3% of the votes.  Yet Republicans have 75% of the seats.  That is the real voter fraud, fully sanctioned by all levels of government.

It is also true in Ohio, that a few urban counties are blue and the majority of the rest of the state in red.

https://www.politico.com/election-results/2018/ohio/

See

Representatives are not elected by county but by congressional district. Districts are supposed to have similar population sizes.
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