Author Topic: Should we have drafted buddy hield instead of brown?  (Read 2055 times)

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Re: Should we have drafted buddy hield instead of brown?
« Reply #30 on: December 05, 2018, 03:25:02 PM »

Online liam

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Retrospectively, we should have pushed for a trade up with Philly for Simmons.

He is hands down the best player in the draft. The way I see it, he is a future hall of famer. Closest thing we've ever seen to Magic. There, I said it.

At the time, I would have drafted Brown as well.

While I agree he is probably the best player in the draft, probably need to pump the breaks on the hype for clear hall of famer. He has shown basically no improvement on his shot between since entering the league and is now in his third season. His numbers are all the same or slightly down this year. As of right now I wouldn’t even put him on the east all star team.
Giannis cannot shoot the ball either, yet according to basketball reference he is the clear cut favorite to win MVP this season.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/friv/mvp.html

Never liked the Butler trade for Philly. I believe they should have surrounded Simmons with shooters, the way the Bucks have done with Giannis. Remember last season when the Sixers traded for Belinelli-Ilyasova? That's when they started playing their best basketball.

At the end of the day, Simmons is a polarizing player. Either you love him or you consider him overrated. Personally speaking I'm really high on him, but at the same time I completely understand your point of view.

They did start playing their best basketball then but they signed them both after buyouts. I agree with you that they need more shooters on that squad.

Re: Should we have drafted buddy hield instead of brown?
« Reply #31 on: December 05, 2018, 03:32:04 PM »

Offline Jvalin

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Retrospectively, we should have pushed for a trade up with Philly for Simmons.

He is hands down the best player in the draft. The way I see it, he is a future hall of famer. Closest thing we've ever seen to Magic. There, I said it.

At the time, I would have drafted Brown as well.

While I agree he is probably the best player in the draft, probably need to pump the breaks on the hype for clear hall of famer. He has shown basically no improvement on his shot between since entering the league and is now in his third season. His numbers are all the same or slightly down this year. As of right now I wouldn’t even put him on the east all star team.
Giannis cannot shoot the ball either, yet according to basketball reference he is the clear cut favorite to win MVP this season.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/friv/mvp.html

Never liked the Butler trade for Philly. I believe they should have surrounded Simmons with shooters, the way the Bucks have done with Giannis. Remember last season when the Sixers traded for Belinelli-Ilyasova? That's when they started playing their best basketball.

At the end of the day, Simmons is a polarizing player. Either you love him or you consider him overrated. Personally speaking I'm really high on him, but at the same time I completely understand your point of view.

They did start playing their best basketball then but they signed them both after buyouts. I agree with you that they need more shooters on that squad.
Yeah sorry, my bad. :) I will correct it.

Re: Should we have drafted buddy hield instead of brown?
« Reply #32 on: December 05, 2018, 03:34:29 PM »

Online Moranis

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Retrospectively, we should have pushed for a trade up with Philly for Simmons.

He is hands down the best player in the draft. The way I see it, he is a future hall of famer. Closest thing we've ever seen to Magic. There, I said it.

At the time, I would have drafted Brown as well.

While I agree he is probably the best player in the draft, probably need to pump the breaks on the hype for clear hall of famer. He has shown basically no improvement on his shot between since entering the league and is now in his third season. His numbers are all the same or slightly down this year. As of right now I wouldn’t even put him on the east all star team.
Giannis cannot shoot the ball either, yet according to basketball reference he is the clear cut favorite to win MVP this season.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/friv/mvp.html

Never liked the Butler trade for Philly. I believe they should have surrounded Simmons with shooters, the way the Bucks have done with Giannis. Remember last season when the Sixers traded for Belinelli-Ilyasova? That's when they started playing their best basketball.

At the end of the day, Simmons is a polarizing player. Either you love him or you consider him overrated. Personally speaking I'm really high on him, but at the same time I completely understand your point of view.
The Sixers are 8-2 with Butler and 1 of the losses was the first game he played.  The schedule has been favorable though.  Next 15 games are much tougher.  Should be a good gauge of what the Sixers with Butler will be. 

And for the record Philly is a middle of the road 3 point shooting team at 35.2% and they are closer to the Kings in 1st then they are to the Hawks/Thunder in last. 

Re: Should we have drafted buddy hield instead of brown?
« Reply #33 on: December 05, 2018, 03:39:37 PM »

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cant predict the future with a draft class..just got to go with all the resourses a team got on the players and draft the one u think will help ur team
C/PF-Horford, Baynes, Noel, Theis, Morris,
SF/SG- Tatum, Brown, Hayward, Smart, Semi, Clark
PG- Irving, Rozier, Larkin

Re: Should we have drafted buddy hield instead of brown?
« Reply #34 on: December 05, 2018, 03:55:26 PM »

Offline Rondo9

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In 31.2 min, Hield is averaging 18.4 Pts (47.3% FG) 5.5 RB 2.7 assist
In 28.1 min, brown is averaging 11.1 pts (39.8%) 4.1 rb 1.3 assist
I'm not sure that evalutuating them  by comparing the worst 20 games Brown has ever played with the best 20 games Heild has ever played is really a fair way to look at it. Even if it was Brown is still way younger. And to be honest I think the end of last year proved that if given the riens Brown could put up numbers on a mediocre to bad team, because he put up numbers on a very good team. That doesnt mean his recet strugges arent concerning, but I'm not out on him yet. Get back to me in 2 months.
except those might not be the best 20 games Hield has ever played.  He was pretty [dang] good down the stretch last year and carried it over into this season, something Brown clearly did not do.

1. Always be leery of big numbers being put up by young players at the end of a season on a losing team.
2. Defense matters, especially in the playoffs, which Hield has never seen. Hield is not, nor will ever be a plus on defense. He doesn't have the length to switch or the lateral quickness to guard primary ball-handlers. He does not play passing lanes well and does not have good defensive instincts.
3. Hield is less than one year younger than Kyrie Irving. Brown is three years younger than Hield and has not had the opportunity to get the reps with the ball in his hands like Hield had in college (with a coach that focused on guard production) and in the pros on a lottery team.
4. I'd weigh Brown's best 20 games in the playoffs on an Eastern Conference Finalist team against Hield's best 20 games in October and November much more heavily.
1.  He carried that over into the next season though.  And the Kings are actually a decent team this year and above .500 well enough into the season that it isn't a fluke.  Hield is a big part of that success.
2. He is not a good defender.  No one ever said he was, but he is a much better offensive player than Brown overall and a significantly better shooter and probably always will be (at least with the shooting). 
3.  Yeah he is older, but they are both into year 3 and that is when players by and large really round into the player they will become.  You rarely see a guy, no matter his age, all of a sudden take off after their 3rd year (it does happen it is just very rare). 
4. As would I, but there are legit concerns regarding Brown and his inability to find a role on this team.  Of course even using the playoffs, Hield thus far this year is statistically outperforming what Brown did in the playoffs last year.

1. The kings so far allow the the third worse defense this year. Sooner or later, that will catch up to them.
2. Hield was always projected to be a good offensive player. But Brown has higher upside to be good on offense and defense and showed it last year in the playoffs.
3. Age does matter, people would probably see Hield at his peak yet still see Brown as still person with upside.
4. Why are you even comparing regular season to the playoffs? Brown showed his potential when stood up when the games were tight even in the regular season. Hield hasn’t shown that yet.

Re: Should we have drafted buddy hield instead of brown?
« Reply #35 on: December 05, 2018, 03:57:22 PM »

Offline Rondo9

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It’s downright amazing how people can turn on a guy if they don’t perform well in a quarter of the season. Before he was hurt, Brown did get his shooting percentages back close to normal.

Re: Should we have drafted buddy hield instead of brown?
« Reply #36 on: December 05, 2018, 04:59:55 PM »

Offline SparzWizard

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I was onboard with Buddy Hield.

Re: Should we have drafted buddy hield instead of brown?
« Reply #37 on: December 05, 2018, 05:02:04 PM »

Online PhoSita

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No, we should have drafted Jamal Murray.

There's an outside chance that Murray isn't even the long-term answer at point guard for the Nuggets. They really like Monte Morris.

I know this is contrary to the narrative and therefore I'd probably get negative TPs if possible, but pay attention to how the situation develops. Murrays' efficiency is down and he still has not developed the ability to create for others. Plus, he is awful at defense. The best way to hide Jokic's defense is to have guards that can contain drives.

Just monitor the situation. Morris has gotten more minutes than Murray multiple games this season and has performed pretty well. He's steady, solid, and efficient.

Edit: A Paul Milsap and Jamal Murray trade for Aaron Gordon and Terrance Ross makes a lot of sense for both teams.

I don't see Murray as a point. I think he's a SG.  Would work best alongside a bigger point guard.

Murray to me is a gifted pure scorer.

As when they were drafted, Browns ceiling is higher but it's a lot easier for Brown for get lost on the court due to the fact that his one consistent skill is his combination of size and athleticism.
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Re: Should we have drafted buddy hield instead of brown?
« Reply #38 on: December 05, 2018, 05:18:54 PM »

Offline slamtheking

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nope - perfectly happy with Brown.  I suspect his issues are more about fitting in rather than any erosion of skills.  he looked like he was getting his act together the last 4 games he played before his injury

Re: Should we have drafted buddy hield instead of brown?
« Reply #39 on: December 05, 2018, 05:58:45 PM »

Online Moranis

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No, we should have drafted Jamal Murray.

There's an outside chance that Murray isn't even the long-term answer at point guard for the Nuggets. They really like Monte Morris.

I know this is contrary to the narrative and therefore I'd probably get negative TPs if possible, but pay attention to how the situation develops. Murrays' efficiency is down and he still has not developed the ability to create for others. Plus, he is awful at defense. The best way to hide Jokic's defense is to have guards that can contain drives.

Just monitor the situation. Morris has gotten more minutes than Murray multiple games this season and has performed pretty well. He's steady, solid, and efficient.

Edit: A Paul Milsap and Jamal Murray trade for Aaron Gordon and Terrance Ross makes a lot of sense for both teams.

I don't see Murray as a point. I think he's a SG.  Would work best alongside a bigger point guard.

Murray to me is a gifted pure scorer.

As when they were drafted, Browns ceiling is higher but it's a lot easier for Brown for get lost on the court due to the fact that his one consistent skill is his combination of size and athleticism.
Yeah imagine Murray next to Simmons. 

Re: Should we have drafted buddy hield instead of brown?
« Reply #40 on: December 05, 2018, 06:04:23 PM »

Offline mmmmm

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In 31.2 min, Hield is averaging 18.4 Pts (47.3% FG) 5.5 RB 2.7 assist
In 28.1 min, brown is averaging 11.1 pts (39.8%) 4.1 rb 1.3 assist
I'm not sure that evalutuating them  by comparing the worst 20 games Brown has ever played with the best 20 games Heild has ever played is really a fair way to look at it. Even if it was Brown is still way younger. And to be honest I think the end of last year proved that if given the riens Brown could put up numbers on a mediocre to bad team, because he put up numbers on a very good team. That doesnt mean his recet strugges arent concerning, but I'm not out on him yet. Get back to me in 2 months.

That's right. Last year in the playoffs, JB was in 18 games. He scored 18/game, shooting 39% from 3, 52% overall, and played excellent defense. Lest we forget, he was about half speed for 2-3 of those games while he came back from an injury.

It's possible he'll never be that player again, but I don't see why that's likely. It's more likely he's having some adjustment issues and he'll figure them out. When that happens, look out below.

This is my take as well.

For the record, over Jaylen's last 4 games prior to bruising his tailbone, he shot just under 60% FG% and .  In his last game he scored a very efficient 16 points and grabbed 5 rebounds.  He was arguably one of our best overall players in his last few games.  His 4 game per-36 was 17.4/5.2.

That suggests to me that he had, indeed, started to 'figure them out'.   Hopefully he'll be able to pick up tomorrow night from where he left off.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt?  Incompetent?  Which is worse?  Does it matter?  It sucks.

Re: Should we have drafted buddy hield instead of brown?
« Reply #41 on: December 05, 2018, 06:15:54 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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wow

tuff crowd  ;D

Re: Should we have drafted buddy hield instead of brown?
« Reply #42 on: December 10, 2018, 05:35:01 AM »

Offline RockinRyA

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This thread probably isn't going to age well.

Re: Should we have drafted buddy hield instead of brown?
« Reply #43 on: December 10, 2018, 01:09:09 PM »

Offline Stig

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In 31.2 min, Hield is averaging 18.4 Pts (47.3% FG) 5.5 RB 2.7 assist
In 28.1 min, brown is averaging 11.1 pts (39.8%) 4.1 rb 1.3 assist

no way, Brown is playoff proven, Hield just proved he can play decent regular season games, and that's probably his peak. I'd take Murray over Hield any day of the week. In that draft only one player  is clearly better than Brown, that's Ben Simmonds. Murray, Ingram, Brown are on the same level.

Re: Should we have drafted buddy hield instead of brown?
« Reply #44 on: December 10, 2018, 02:36:39 PM »

Offline RodyTur10

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In 31.2 min, Hield is averaging 18.4 Pts (47.3% FG) 5.5 RB 2.7 assist
In 28.1 min, brown is averaging 11.1 pts (39.8%) 4.1 rb 1.3 assist

no way, Brown is playoff proven, Hield just proved he can play decent regular season games, and that's probably his peak. I'd take Murray over Hield any day of the week. In that draft only one player is clearly better than Brown, that's Ben Simmons. Murray, Ingram, Brown are on the same level.

I'm not even sure I would draft Simmons. He's a very one-dimensional player and if he isn't going to try to shoot he will basically stay the player he is right now. Brown is much more versatile and might have a higher ceiling if he works hard.

After thinking about it, for the Celtics I would only rather have Simmons for the reason that he's a bigger trade chip.

Ps: about that draft, don't sleep on Sabonis, Siakam and Brogdon who you didn't mention.
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