Author Topic: Does the team miss Shane Larkin and Abdel Nader?  (Read 2871 times)

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Does the team miss Shane Larkin and Abdel Nader?
« on: November 23, 2018, 07:52:53 AM »

Offline Alleyoopster

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(With the team not playing so well and grumblings of possible unhappiness about minutes played, etc., I thought I'd put a different spin on their current dilemma.)

Could it be the Celtics miss Shane Larkin more than they think they would have? Originally, they hoped Jabari Bird would fill that role. That's not happening this year.

Yes, I know he played a minor role. But, it may have been a pivotal or crucial one. He provided an unpredictable spark in so many games last year. On offense he wasn't the greatest shooter, but the tempo of the game always changed whenever he stepped onto the court. (Okay, sometimes for the worse.) Even at that, he wasn't a threat to either Smart or Rozier for playing time because he was considered a marginal player at best.

As it stands the Celtics are predictable on both offense and defense. Perhaps, having someone who darts around helter skelter (like Larkin did) on offense is what the Celtics need right now.

Could it be they are mentally too rigid and trying too hard? Again, maybe an out of control, loosey-goosey guard might help them? Both Bird and Larkin kind of filled that role. i don't see that player on this year's squad.

To further elaborate: Defensively, Shane played maniacally. Not always the best defender for sure, but the best example of how to play your heart out (sacrificing everything) in order to help his team win...the epitome of selflessness. Was his role as a team motivator, instant jittery-spark-plug and an annoying defensive force greater than we gave him credit for?

Personally, I thought Brad made a huge mistake not using him in the playoffs last year. Maybe his injuries were too severe. Can't say....

No, I'm not saying Shane is a great player by any means, just that the Celtics seem to be missing the spark they displayed last year. Putting all the blame on Terry possibly complaining about playing time doesn't seem fair as a number of other players are not playing well either.

(My next hypothesis may be even more incredible to some, even so, here goes....this is all conjecture)

With the addition of Haywood the team now has a new alpha leader....this leadership role used to be shared jointly by unsung heroes such as Brown, Tatum, Terry and the Marcus's, etc. (The only real star being Kyrie.) One player, who wasn't considered a leader or even an unsung hero  was Abdel Nader.

Last year (in this blog) I would read over and over that he couldn't pass, shoot, play good defense, rebound, etc. However, one thing that he was almost never given credit for, is how well the second team played with him on the floor.

In many games the team would not lose much or any ground with him out there. For example, he'd go in the game with the team up by something like 5 points and leave with them up by 3 (or something similar). I believe that is why Brad played him as much as he did. He may have played poorly. Yet, the team as a whole played well.

I'm not saying he didn't have stinker games where the team played worse. But, in a good many of them the team never lost ground no matter how horribly everyone thought he played.

Why might this have benefited the overall team play? Like Larkin, his teammates realized he was only out there filling a minor role and not expected to be a team leader. Nader threatened nobody's minutes, status, role, etc. Everyone was much more equal in their roles. He competed for minutes with Ojeleye at best. This year it might be expectations are higher and there's more inter-squad competition....players are putting pressure on themselves.

Even though the front line players seem to be getting most of the grief perhaps it would help if the bench played with less focus, not be afraid to make silly mistakes, not worry about minutes and just have fun out there. Not sure if that is the answer. Seemed to work in the past.


Re: Does the team miss Shane Larkin and Abdel Nader?
« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2018, 08:04:22 AM »

Offline Androslav

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It would truly be a nadir that we miss Nader.

Like in any shaping/forming involved activity, I think we need to place bigger elements in the composition first (our nominal stars) and afterward, smaller parts go where there is space left and where they fit the best (young players, bench guys).
« Last Edit: November 23, 2018, 08:12:24 AM by Androslav »
"The joy of the balling under the rims."

Re: Does the team miss Shane Larkin and Abdel Nader?
« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2018, 08:12:16 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Quote
Yes, I know he played a minor role. But, it may have been a pivotal or crucial one.

No, and we should have a slap button for people asking it!  Thanks for the laugh, I almost felt out the chair reading this one.

Great Sarcasm!

Re: Does the team miss Shane Larkin and Abdel Nader?
« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2018, 08:15:44 AM »

Offline Green-18

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(With the team not playing so well and grumblings of possible unhappiness about minutes played, etc., I thought I'd put a different spin on their current dilemma.)

Could it be the Celtics miss Shane Larkin more than they think they would have? Originally, they hoped Jabari Bird would fill that role. That's not happening this year.

Yes, I know he played a minor role. But, it may have been a pivotal or crucial one. He provided an unpredictable spark in so many games last year. On offense he wasn't the greatest shooter, but the tempo of the game always changed whenever he stepped onto the court. (Okay, sometimes for the worse.) Even at that, he wasn't a threat to either Smart or Rozier for playing time because he was considered a marginal player at best.

As it stands the Celtics are predictable on both offense and defense. Perhaps, having someone who darts around helter skelter (like Larkin did) on offense is what the Celtics need right now.

Could it be they are mentally too rigid and trying too hard? Again, maybe an out of control, loosey-goosey guard might help them? Both Bird and Larkin kind of filled that role. i don't see that player on this year's squad.

To further elaborate: Defensively, Shane played maniacally. Not always the best defender for sure, but the best example of how to play your heart out (sacrificing everything) in order to help his team win...the epitome of selflessness. Was his role as a team motivator, instant jittery-spark-plug and an annoying defensive force greater than we gave him credit for?

Personally, I thought Brad made a huge mistake not using him in the playoffs last year. Maybe his injuries were too severe. Can't say....

No, I'm not saying Shane is a great player by any means, just that the Celtics seem to be missing the spark they displayed last year. Putting all the blame on Terry possibly complaining about playing time doesn't seem fair as a number of other players are not playing well either.

(My next hypothesis may be even more incredible to some, even so, here goes....this is all conjecture)

With the addition of Haywood the team now has a new alpha leader....this leadership role used to be shared jointly by unsung heroes such as Brown, Tatum, Terry and the Marcus's, etc. (The only real star being Kyrie.) One player, who wasn't considered a leader or even an unsung hero  was Abdel Nader.

Last year (in this blog) I would read over and over that he couldn't pass, shoot, play good defense, rebound, etc. However, one thing that he was almost never given credit for, is how well the second team played with him on the floor.

In many games the team would not lose much or any ground with him out there. For example, he'd go in the game with the team up by something like 5 points and leave with them up by 3 (or something similar). I believe that is why Brad played him as much as he did. He may have played poorly. Yet, the team as a whole played well.

I'm not saying he didn't have stinker games where the team played worse. But, in a good many of them the team never lost ground no matter how horribly everyone thought he played.

Why might this have benefited the overall team play? Like Larkin, his teammates realized he was only out there filling a minor role and not expected to be a team leader. Nader threatened nobody's minutes, status, role, etc. Everyone was much more equal in their roles. He competed for minutes with Ojeleye at best. This year it might be expectations are higher and there's more inter-squad competition....players are putting pressure on themselves.

Even though the front line players seem to be getting most of the grief perhaps it would help if the bench played with less focus, not be afraid to make silly mistakes, not worry about minutes and just have fun out there. Not sure if that is the answer. Seemed to work in the past.

TP for a nice post!  You are not the only person who misses Larkin.  His full court ball pressure early in the 4th quarter often gave the team a boost of energy.  Many of these games he didn't even play during the first 3 quarters.  Players like Larkin are nice to have throughout the grind of a regular season.  A couple of positive possessions can really make a difference.

I have no doubts that Stevens would have found a way to use him in similar fashion with this current group, especially given the issues with effort and lack of confidence.

It's obvious that Rozier is pressing in a lot of these games.  It wouldn't hurt to have an experienced guard behind him who was only concerned about playing a specific role.  Sometimes a team needs a couple of players who keep things simple and play with 110% effort.
 

« Last Edit: November 23, 2018, 08:21:34 AM by Green-18 »

Re: Does the team miss Shane Larkin and Abdel Nader?
« Reply #4 on: November 23, 2018, 08:26:16 AM »

Offline Green-18

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Quote
Yes, I know he played a minor role. But, it may have been a pivotal or crucial one.

No, and we should have a slap button for people asking it!  Thanks for the laugh, I almost felt out the chair reading this one.

Great Sarcasm!

Saying that Larkin played a crucial role would be hyperbole if we look at it from a big picture standpoint.  However, that doesn't mean he wasn't pivotal in a handful of regular season games last season.  Often times these games will swing dramatically on two or three possessions, particularly early in the 4th quarter.  This years team has fallen victim to this many times. 

I think coach Stevens would be first to tell us that Larkin contributed to winning basketball.  His small role absolutely mattered over the course of 82 games. 

Re: Does the team miss Shane Larkin and Abdel Nader?
« Reply #5 on: November 23, 2018, 08:26:38 AM »

Offline Eddie20

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I do miss Larkin's energy, but Nader is horrible. Stevens played him out of necessity, but even still he played in only 48 games and had the worst +/- per 100 on the team, so I'm not sure why the OP though Nader was a key factor in holding leads.

Re: Does the team miss Shane Larkin and Abdel Nader?
« Reply #6 on: November 23, 2018, 09:43:49 AM »

Offline cman88

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no, but someone like Shane larkin who understands his role and that he is a roleplayer may benefit the team more than Terry Rozier whom while more talented seems to go out there wanting to go ISO and throw up horrible shots.

Re: Does the team miss Shane Larkin and Abdel Nader?
« Reply #7 on: November 23, 2018, 10:56:44 AM »

Offline Ogaju

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Larkin does not go down last year and Cs make the finals. I strongly believe that.

I cant believe that no one above has questioned the OP's assertion that Larkin did not play in the playoffs. Of course he did, and Rozier did not begin to struggle until Larkin went down and could not play anymore. The extra rest he gave Rozier was pivotal in keeping Terry fresh while he put more pressure and fatigue on opponents by making him them chase him around.

Once Larkin went out, Terry played more... legs gave out ...you got the shooting performance in game 7 vs. Cavs.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2018, 11:06:29 AM by Ogaju »

Re: Does the team miss Shane Larkin and Abdel Nader?
« Reply #8 on: November 23, 2018, 11:00:09 AM »

Offline RJ87

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I do think we miss Larkin. By all accounts, he was a good locker room guy. I think this team misses having a guy who's always prepared no matter what his role is game to game.
2021 Houston Rockets
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C: Kristaps Porzingis/Bobby Portis/James Wiseman

Re: Does the team miss Shane Larkin and Abdel Nader?
« Reply #9 on: November 23, 2018, 11:02:07 AM »

Offline GreenWarrior

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lol.

Re: Does the team miss Shane Larkin and Abdel Nader?
« Reply #10 on: November 23, 2018, 11:08:46 AM »

Offline Ogaju

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I do think we miss Larkin. By all accounts, he was a good locker room guy. I think this team misses having a guy who's always prepared no matter what his role is game to game.

RJ,

It was more than locker room. He was the second PG off the bench after Kyrie went down. What about those games that Smart missed in the playoffs?

Re: Does the team miss Shane Larkin and Abdel Nader?
« Reply #11 on: November 23, 2018, 11:13:17 AM »

Offline cons

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Letting go of Larkin made no sense when they did it and looks worse now. But overall not likely a major factor

Re: Does the team miss Shane Larkin and Abdel Nader?
« Reply #12 on: November 23, 2018, 11:20:48 AM »

Offline timpiker

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I think I agree with you and that they do miss them, especially Larkin.

Re: Does the team miss Shane Larkin and Abdel Nader?
« Reply #13 on: November 23, 2018, 11:28:18 AM »

Offline Rosco917

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IMO they miss Larkin. He was a true Point Guard. He had a way of settling down a rattled offense. Something Rozier and Smart can't seem to do. And the reason Hayward is playing point forward more and more. 


Abdel who?

Re: Does the team miss Shane Larkin and Abdel Nader?
« Reply #14 on: November 23, 2018, 11:58:10 AM »

Offline Birdman

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Missing Nadel? 😂😂😂
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PG- Irving, Rozier, Larkin