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Author Topic: Washburn says players angry about playing time, unrest in locker room  (Read 8537 times)

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Washburn says players angry about playing time, unrest in locker room
« on: November 22, 2018, 01:07:13 AM »

Offline ozgod

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Most of us probably suspected this given how disjointed they are, but it's the first time a journalist has actually come out and published something saying players are unhappy about playing time. I wonder if he is concluding this on the basis of performance or if he has some inside info from players. This kind of issue is way worse than missing shots or being demotivated - it has the potential to destroy the team. If it's really like this then trades need to happen.

Quote
As much as the Celtics have tried to downplay their slow start, attributing their struggles to a revamped lineup, new roles, a tough schedule or whatever, there are some serious problems in that locker room.

Because they are losing and because they look horrible in the process, evidenced Wednesday night by falling behind by 26 points to the Knicks, losers of six straight, there are some unhappy fellows on this team and it’s going to take some time and victories to soothe feelings.

Some players are angry about their playing time. Others are angry when they’re playing. They don’t trust each other on defense. The offense can’t score when they don’t hit 3-pointers. And the frustration is showing in their putrid effort, which again was nonexistent until the second half.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/celtics/2018/11/22/celtics-are-angry-and-trust-major-issue/NCseBiUXwNMYNK0F2HOkSL/story.html

I decided to look at their minutes last year vs this year, for most of them it's not really that different...Gordon's minutes have basically come from Baynes, Smart, Semi and Theis. Jaylen is playing a couple minutes less, Rozier 3 mins less, Al 2 min less, Kyrie and Morris the same and Tatum actually playing more than last year. I wonder if the unhappy one is Smart.

Code: [Select]
2018-19 2017-18
PLAYER GP MIN PTS GP MIN PTS
Kyrie Irving 17 32.9 22.4 60 32.2 24.4
Jayson Tatum 18 32 16.1 80 30.5 13.9
Marcus Morris 17 26.1 13.9 54 26.7 13.6
Al Horford 18 29.8 11.7 72 31.6 12.9
Jaylen Brown 17 28.3 10.9 70 30.7 14.5
Gordon Hayward 17 27.2 10.3 1 5.3 2
Terry Rozier 18 22.7 7.9 80 25.9 11.3
Marcus Smart 18 23.1 5.8 54 29.9 10.2
Aron Baynes 15 13.6 5.2 81 18.3 6
Daniel Theis 10 10.7 4.9 63 14.9 5.3
Brad Wanamaker 4 6 2.8 #N/A #N/A #N/A
Semi Ojeleye 11 9 2.3 73 15.8 2.7
G. Yabusele 9 4.2 1.8 33 7.1 2.4
R. Williams III 5 3 1 #N/A #N/A #N/A
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Re: Washburn says players angry about playing time, unrest in locker room
« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2018, 01:10:20 AM »

Offline SparzWizard

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Or the unhappy one is Rozier who wants more PT.
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Re: Washburn says players angry about playing time, unrest in locker room
« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2018, 01:12:25 AM »

Offline ozgod

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Quote from: SparzWizard on November 22, 2018, 01:10:20 AM
Or the unhappy one is Rozier who wants more PT.

Overall he's not playing that much less but I guess when Kyrie went down he averaged 30+ minutes.
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Re: Washburn says players angry about playing time, unrest in locker room
« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2018, 01:21:19 AM »

Offline gouki88

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Quote from: ozgod on November 22, 2018, 01:12:25 AM
Quote from: SparzWizard on November 22, 2018, 01:10:20 AM
Or the unhappy one is Rozier who wants more PT.

Overall he's not playing that much less but I guess when Kyrie went down he averaged 30+ minutes.
Yeah, I think the playoffs and the hype around Scary Terry got to him
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'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)
Re: Washburn says players angry about playing time, unrest in locker room
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2018, 01:44:13 AM »

Offline Tr1boy

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Quote from: gouki88 on November 22, 2018, 01:21:19 AM
Quote from: ozgod on November 22, 2018, 01:12:25 AM
Quote from: SparzWizard on November 22, 2018, 01:10:20 AM
Or the unhappy one is Rozier who wants more PT.

Overall he's not playing that much less but I guess when Kyrie went down he averaged 30+ minutes.
Yeah, I think the playoffs and the hype around Scary Terry got to him

What hype? He is a good player
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Re: Washburn says players angry about playing time, unrest in locker room
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2018, 01:55:00 AM »

Offline gouki88

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Quote from: triboy16f on November 22, 2018, 01:44:13 AM
Quote from: gouki88 on November 22, 2018, 01:21:19 AM
Quote from: ozgod on November 22, 2018, 01:12:25 AM
Quote from: SparzWizard on November 22, 2018, 01:10:20 AM
Or the unhappy one is Rozier who wants more PT.

Overall he's not playing that much less but I guess when Kyrie went down he averaged 30+ minutes.
Yeah, I think the playoffs and the hype around Scary Terry got to him

What hype? He is a good player
The vocal, but misled crowd chanting ‘start Terry, we don’t need Kyrie!’ and the like.

And this season he has simply been terrible
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'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)
Re: Washburn says players angry about playing time, unrest in locker room
« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2018, 02:05:27 AM »

Offline SparzWizard

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Quote from: gouki88 on November 22, 2018, 01:55:00 AM
Quote from: triboy16f on November 22, 2018, 01:44:13 AM
Quote from: gouki88 on November 22, 2018, 01:21:19 AM
Quote from: ozgod on November 22, 2018, 01:12:25 AM
Quote from: SparzWizard on November 22, 2018, 01:10:20 AM
Or the unhappy one is Rozier who wants more PT.

Overall he's not playing that much less but I guess when Kyrie went down he averaged 30+ minutes.
Yeah, I think the playoffs and the hype around Scary Terry got to him

What hype? He is a good player
The vocal, but misled crowd chanting ‘start Terry, we don’t need Kyrie!’ and the like.

And this season he has simply been terrible

I was almost on that convincing wagon until Game 7 of the 2018 ECF happened.
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Re: Washburn says players angry about playing time, unrest in locker room
« Reply #7 on: November 22, 2018, 02:14:20 AM »

Offline bdm860

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Quote from: ozgod on November 22, 2018, 01:12:25 AM
Quote from: SparzWizard on November 22, 2018, 01:10:20 AM
Or the unhappy one is Rozier who wants more PT.

Overall he's not playing that much less but I guess when Kyrie went down he averaged 30+ minutes.

He's playing a lot less. 

You can't look at average minutes last season because it's skewed.  He went from 33mpg over his last 16 games of the regular season, to 37mpg in the playoffs (19 games).  That's almost half a season worth of games where he was playing heavy starter minutes.  Now he only got 15 minutes this last game.  4 of the last 6 he hasn't broken 20 minutes, 5 of the last 6 he has broken 21. That's a huge difference in playing time.

What disappoints me, everybody knew there was going to be a minutes crunch, so I was hoping that guys (Terry especially, but Brown and Tatum also) would be playing like mad men trying to earn minutes, or to make the most of what they got. 

It's one thing when you have to pace yourself so you can play 35-40 minutes over an entire game.  But when you might not even get 20?  I was hoping the starters would bring it right away because they want to play, and the bench would come in ready to pounce because they want to play.  Everybody would have the mentality:  I'm going 110% the whole time, my man ain't scoring, and no need to force shots with this offense, I'm going to dare Brad to take me out when I'm playing unselfish with crazy D!  No playing down to your opponents, because screw the other team, your playing so your teammates don't take your minutes!

I know it's easier said then done, but that's what I was hoping for.
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Re: Washburn says players angry about playing time, unrest in locker room
« Reply #8 on: November 22, 2018, 02:18:13 AM »

Offline Chris22

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The way these guys are shooting, they are lucky to get any playing time at all.

I have been watching the NBA for 50 years, and I have never seen a group of players suddenly forget how to shoot. It's weird.

I think winning last year went to their heads, and they did not work as hard over the past summer. Well, guess what kids? Larry Bird worked hard on his shooting every single day of his career. Get with it!
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Re: Washburn says players angry about playing time, unrest in locker room
« Reply #9 on: November 22, 2018, 02:23:37 AM »

Offline gouki88

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Quote from: Chris22 on November 22, 2018, 02:18:13 AM
The way these guys are shooting, they are lucky to get any playing time at all.

I have been watching the NBA for 50 years, and I have never seen a group of players suddenly forget how to shoot. It's weird.

I think winning last year went to their heads, and they did not work as hard over the past summer. Well, guess what kids? Larry Bird worked hard on his shooting every single day of his career. Get with it!
I think I’d sell my legs to have Larry Bird on this team
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'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)
Re: Washburn says players angry about playing time, unrest in locker room
« Reply #10 on: November 22, 2018, 02:26:24 AM »

Offline byennie

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It's Rozier, and *maybe* Brown.

Rozier considers himself a 30 mpg player and he's only hit that mark twice in 18 games. Averaging 19 mpg over the last 4. Playing for a contract. Obviously unhappy.

Brown is the wildcard here. The team has elevated both Tatum and Hayward ahead of him, despite him having a year on Tatum and Hayward obviously not 100%. Over the last 5 games Tatum and Hayward are playing 30+ and Brown is averaging 24. I think he considers himself a rising All-Star but he's being treated like the 5th wheel behind Irving, Hayward, Tatum and Horford and on par with Rozier and Smart. That's 7 guys around or above his level with no end in sight.

I see the proper roster as:

The core: Irving, Hayward, Horford
The untouchable future star: Tatum
The blue collar guys: Smart, Morris, Wanamaker, Baynes, Theis
The cancer: Rozier
The assets: Brown, SAC19, other 1st rounders
Prospects: Williams
Sorta useful: Ojeleye
Expendable: Yabusele
« Last Edit: November 22, 2018, 02:34:56 AM by byennie »
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Re: Washburn says players angry about playing time, unrest in locker room
« Reply #11 on: November 22, 2018, 02:35:48 AM »

Offline PhoSita

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Pretty sure it's Terry.

Honestly they should trade him.
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Re: Washburn says players angry about playing time, unrest in locker room
« Reply #12 on: November 22, 2018, 02:36:07 AM »

Offline ozgod

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Quote from: bdm860 on November 22, 2018, 02:14:20 AM
Quote from: ozgod on November 22, 2018, 01:12:25 AM
Quote from: SparzWizard on November 22, 2018, 01:10:20 AM
Or the unhappy one is Rozier who wants more PT.

Overall he's not playing that much less but I guess when Kyrie went down he averaged 30+ minutes.

He's playing a lot less. 

You can't look at average minutes last season because it's skewed.  He went from 33mpg over his last 16 games of the regular season, to 37mpg in the playoffs (19 games).  That's almost half a season worth of games where he was playing heavy starter minutes.  Now he only got 15 minutes this last game.  4 of the last 6 he hasn't broken 20 minutes, 5 of the last 6 he has broken 21. That's a huge difference in playing time.

What disappoints me, everybody knew there was going to be a minutes crunch, so I was hoping that guys (Terry especially, but Brown and Tatum also) would be playing like mad men trying to earn minutes, or to make the most of what they got. 

It's one thing when you have to pace yourself so you can play 35-40 minutes over an entire game.  But when you might not even get 20?  I was hoping the starters would bring it right away because they want to play, and the bench would come in ready to pounce because they want to play.  Everybody would have the mentality:  I'm going 110% the whole time, my man ain't scoring, and no need to force shots with this offense, I'm going to dare Brad to take me out when I'm playing unselfish with crazy D!  No playing down to your opponents, because screw the other team, your playing so your teammates don't take your minutes!

I know it's easier said then done, but that's what I was hoping for.

Maybe Terry should give Lou Williams or Tyreke Evans a call, try to find out how to quickly impact the game off the bench without playing 35+ minutes.
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Re: Washburn says players angry about playing time, unrest in locker room
« Reply #13 on: November 22, 2018, 02:40:01 AM »

Offline PhoSita

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Terry has never been and never will be the kind of pure scorer that Lou and Tyreke are.

He's a guy that looks better than his numbers. Hes shown he can be a below average starter with some defense and some timely shooting.  He seems to play better with a lot of minutes.

I say ship him to Phoenix or wherever.
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Re: Washburn says players angry about playing time, unrest in locker room
« Reply #14 on: November 22, 2018, 03:13:24 AM »

Offline gouki88

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Quote from: PhoSita on November 22, 2018, 02:40:01 AM
Terry has never been and never will be the kind of pure scorer that Lou and Tyreke are.

He's a guy that looks better than his numbers. Hes shown he can be a below average starter with some defense and some timely shooting.  He seems to play better with a lot of minutes.

I say ship him to Phoenix or wherever.
I like wherever
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'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)
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