Author Topic: Brad Stevens is No Phil Jackson  (Read 1616 times)

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Re: Brad Stevens is No Phil Jackson
« Reply #30 on: November 08, 2018, 08:41:11 AM »

Offline iadera

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 Time for Mr Perfect Coach Stevens to get his share of the blame. So he's great with Scrubs and underachievers. He preaches ball movement and wants everyone to share the ball.

 Well that's not how titles are won Brad. At some point when you have the big Egos you have to manage and motivate them properly. It's not easy.

 Brad is not an Alpha coach. It's becoming a big problem. He has to make changes. He's doing nothing. Step up your game Coach. Bench Hayward or Kyrie.

 We are 14 and 14 in the last 28 games Kyrie has started. Start Rozier. Do something. Light a fire. Go back to the starters last year.
that is because Kyrie's game has never been one of truly winning basketball.  He just doesn't affect the win and loss column very much.  This is much more a Kyrie issue than a Brad issue.

Are you sure he's never been? Well, I remember very well game 7 in Oracle 2015

Re: Brad Stevens is No Phil Jackson
« Reply #31 on: November 08, 2018, 09:01:11 AM »

Offline Androslav

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 Time for Mr Perfect Coach Stevens to get his share of the blame. So he's great with Scrubs and underachievers. He preaches ball movement and wants everyone to share the ball.

 Well that's not how titles are won Brad. At some point when you have the big Egos you have to manage and motivate them properly. It's not easy.

 Brad is not an Alpha coach. It's becoming a big problem. He has to make changes. He's doing nothing. Step up your game Coach. Bench Hayward or Kyrie.

 We are 14 and 14 in the last 28 games Kyrie has started. Start Rozier. Do something. Light a fire. Go back to the starters last year.
that is because Kyrie's game has never been one of truly winning basketball.  He just doesn't affect the win and loss column very much.  This is much more a Kyrie issue than a Brad issue.
LOL, he won Cleveland their sole championship against a 73 win team.
Grateful fan indeed.
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Re: Brad Stevens is No Phil Jackson
« Reply #32 on: November 08, 2018, 11:11:36 AM »

Offline rocknrollforyoursoul

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The amount of panic threads on this site simply because the Celtics didn't start the season red hot and clicking on all cylinders is kinda astonishing.

Bench Brown and Tatum.
Trade Kyrie.
Trade Morris.
Stevens doesn't know how to coach good players.
Send Hayward to the G League.

Geesh. Thank God the Celtics have Stevens and Ainge and know not to do crazy, panicking things because a season and playoffs is a marathon, not a sprint.

Itís kinda funny that before the season, most of us expected a bit of a slow start. Then we have just that (but all losses were close until the final minutes) and people want to change everything.

It doesnít take Ainge and CBS to not do some of these crazy propositions, any sane front office wouldnít. 95% of fanbases wouldnít suggest these ridiculous ideas.

I'm not sure about this. I recall quite a few people saying they expected Hayward, and to a lesser extent Kyrie, to start slow because of missing so much time last season. But as for the team overall, my impression was that most people here were expecting Boston to cruise to 60+ wins.
Celtics could still cruise to 60 wins. They haven't played many of the sad sisters of the league yet. They have played Philly, Toronto, Milwaukee, Indy, Denver, OKC, and a mediocre Detroit team twice. They had a bad loss to Orlando which if they had won would put them at 7-3 against a tough start to the year schedule. Once they start clicking, I could easily see a 10+ game winning streak or something like a 22-3 run.

The amount of panic threads on this site simply because the Celtics didn't start the season red hot and clicking on all cylinders is kinda astonishing.

Bench Brown and Tatum.
Trade Kyrie.
Trade Morris.
Stevens doesn't know how to coach good players.
Send Hayward to the G League.

Geesh. Thank God the Celtics have Stevens and Ainge and know not to do crazy, panicking things because a season and playoffs is a marathon, not a sprint.

Itís kinda funny that before the season, most of us expected a bit of a slow start. Then we have just that (but all losses were close until the final minutes) and people want to change everything.

It doesnít take Ainge and CBS to not do some of these crazy propositions, any sane front office wouldnít. 95% of fanbases wouldnít suggest these ridiculous ideas.

I'm not sure about this. I recall quite a few people saying they expected Hayward, and to a lesser extent Kyrie, to start slow because of missing so much time last season. But as for the team overall, my impression was that most people here were expecting Boston to cruise to 60+ wins.

If we start to play a little better, letís say we go 7-3 over our next 10. Then a little better, letís say 8-2. Thatís a 15-5 stretch, and would put us on 57-58 wins. I wouldnít rule out 60 wins just yet. They can go on a nice run soon or in January that put us back on that pace (where we were just two games ago). At 6-2 and coming off defeating Milwaukee, we were all feeling good. Then a loss on a buzzer-beater and another in high-altitude against a 9-1 team backed by a career-game. If those two things happened in February, nobody would blink.

Itís really just so early and a 6-4 start is really not that big of a deal.

Kyrie did start slow. Heís picked it up, heís looked really good. Gordon is still getting there. Horford is shooting career lows from field and deep. Tatum and Brown significant drops in percentages from last season. Smart 18.5% from deep.

These are starts that are unlikely to continue for much longer. They will get going soon.

Fair points, all. I still don't think anyone expected the team, as a whole, to have so many roadbumps at the start of the season, but they certainly have time to figure things out.
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Re: Brad Stevens is No Phil Jackson
« Reply #33 on: November 08, 2018, 11:16:29 AM »

Offline mobilija

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Phil had Jordan & Pippen..Shaq & Kobe..Brad dont

End thread.

At least, until thereís some actual analysis comparing the two. Brad has never had a top-10 player. Phil had four top-50 players of all-time, including the GOTME. (Greatest Of The Modern Era).

I think that's the exact point of the the thread. Brad has proved he can elevate lesser players but hasn't proved he can win with talent.

If you believe Phil Jackson is going to the hall of fame bc he had great players there is some truth to that. But other coaches had the same players before him and they didn't win. Jackson's greatest strength was getting players to bury or focus their egos to win multiple championships. Stevens hasn't shown the ability to get great players to play together yet, like Jackson did.

It's not a panic thread. It's a discussion piece. To pass it off as a "hot take" or panic is ignoring the fact that something is not geling with this team. Maybe they figure out, maybe something implodes and change becomes necessary. Fact is it's Brads job to be like Jackson and make it gel. He hasn't done that yet, hope he can.

I wanna love this team but they are not very fun to watch right now. They don't seem like a team, more like individual players that are working on their own things; Tatum wants to be an iso machine; Hayward is trying to overcome his massive injury; Rozier is trying to make his paycheck; Brown doesn't know what he is and is hesitant and confused.

Re: Brad Stevens is No Phil Jackson
« Reply #34 on: November 08, 2018, 01:54:49 PM »

Online nickagneta

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Phil had Jordan & Pippen..Shaq & Kobe..Brad dont

End thread.

At least, until thereís some actual analysis comparing the two. Brad has never had a top-10 player. Phil had four top-50 players of all-time, including the GOTME. (Greatest Of The Modern Era).

I think that's the exact point of the the thread. Brad has proved he can elevate lesser players but hasn't proved he can win with talent.

If you believe Phil Jackson is going to the hall of fame bc he had great players there is some truth to that. But other coaches had the same players before him and they didn't win. Jackson's greatest strength was getting players to bury or focus their egos to win multiple championships. Stevens hasn't shown the ability to get great players to play together yet, like Jackson did.

It's not a panic thread. It's a discussion piece. To pass it off as a "hot take" or panic is ignoring the fact that something is not geling with this team. Maybe they figure out, maybe something implodes and change becomes necessary. Fact is it's Brads job to be like Jackson and make it gel. He hasn't done that yet, hope he can.

I wanna love this team but they are not very fun to watch right now. They don't seem like a team, more like individual players that are working on their own things; Tatum wants to be an iso machine; Hayward is trying to overcome his massive injury; Rozier is trying to make his paycheck; Brown doesn't know what he is and is hesitant and confused.
Jackson won with ALL TIME great players. Top 25 of ALL TIME great players. Stevens is currently coaching some very good players. If this Celtics team wins a title, it would be akin to that Detroit team winning a title in 2004 than it would be any of Jackson's titles.

Re: Brad Stevens is No Phil Jackson
« Reply #35 on: November 08, 2018, 06:55:18 PM »

Online tenn_smoothie

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Phil Jackson only coached loaded teams, he was too cowardly to try to build a winner.

Right on Target - Jackson even admitted as much when he explained why he didn't take the Cleveland job when Lebron James was still young and that team wasn't ready to win a title. This is why I always laugh when people claim Jackson was somehow better than Red. Coach Phil couldn't build a sand castle, Red built a basketball empire.
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Re: Brad Stevens is No Phil Jackson
« Reply #36 on: November 08, 2018, 07:25:01 PM »

Online SHAQATTACK

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Phil Jackson only coached loaded teams, he was too cowardly to try to build a winner.

Doc are you listening ?    :D

Re: Brad Stevens is No Phil Jackson
« Reply #37 on: November 08, 2018, 08:41:43 PM »

Offline mobilija

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Phil had Jordan & Pippen..Shaq & Kobe..Brad dont

End thread.

At least, until thereís some actual analysis comparing the two. Brad has never had a top-10 player. Phil had four top-50 players of all-time, including the GOTME. (Greatest Of The Modern Era).

I think that's the exact point of the the thread. Brad has proved he can elevate lesser players but hasn't proved he can win with talent.

If you believe Phil Jackson is going to the hall of fame bc he had great players there is some truth to that. But other coaches had the same players before him and they didn't win. Jackson's greatest strength was getting players to bury or focus their egos to win multiple championships. Stevens hasn't shown the ability to get great players to play together yet, like Jackson did.

It's not a panic thread. It's a discussion piece. To pass it off as a "hot take" or panic is ignoring the fact that something is not geling with this team. Maybe they figure out, maybe something implodes and change becomes necessary. Fact is it's Brads job to be like Jackson and make it gel. He hasn't done that yet, hope he can.

I wanna love this team but they are not very fun to watch right now. They don't seem like a team, more like individual players that are working on their own things; Tatum wants to be an iso machine; Hayward is trying to overcome his massive injury; Rozier is trying to make his paycheck; Brown doesn't know what he is and is hesitant and confused.
Jackson won with ALL TIME great players. Top 25 of ALL TIME great players. Stevens is currently coaching some very good players. If this Celtics team wins a title, it would be akin to that Detroit team winning a title in 2004 than it would be any of Jackson's titles.


I think you are missing the point. The thread has Jacksonís name in the title but itís not about him. The OP doesnít even mention Jackson in his remarks, but mention Jackson on a celtics board and all people can do is rehash the same old jackson bashing mantras. I get it, the guy was a front runner. He won with THE BEST players that played while he was coaching. I still think you can agree that he got players to buy in and play together unlike the coaches that coached the same players before him.

The thread is about Stevens not seeming to be able to do that with the wealth of talent (albeit not THE BEST) on this team. I think they will pull it together because talent wins and they seem like a good group of guys that work hard. But the early signs point to some early coaching/chemistry struggles.

Jackson was possibly a poor choice of comparison but the overall point is valid. Coach should take some blame for not having these guys playing together early.

Re: Brad Stevens is No Phil Jackson
« Reply #38 on: November 08, 2018, 08:49:58 PM »

Online nickagneta

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Phil had Jordan & Pippen..Shaq & Kobe..Brad dont

End thread.

At least, until thereís some actual analysis comparing the two. Brad has never had a top-10 player. Phil had four top-50 players of all-time, including the GOTME. (Greatest Of The Modern Era).

I think that's the exact point of the the thread. Brad has proved he can elevate lesser players but hasn't proved he can win with talent.

If you believe Phil Jackson is going to the hall of fame bc he had great players there is some truth to that. But other coaches had the same players before him and they didn't win. Jackson's greatest strength was getting players to bury or focus their egos to win multiple championships. Stevens hasn't shown the ability to get great players to play together yet, like Jackson did.

It's not a panic thread. It's a discussion piece. To pass it off as a "hot take" or panic is ignoring the fact that something is not geling with this team. Maybe they figure out, maybe something implodes and change becomes necessary. Fact is it's Brads job to be like Jackson and make it gel. He hasn't done that yet, hope he can.

I wanna love this team but they are not very fun to watch right now. They don't seem like a team, more like individual players that are working on their own things; Tatum wants to be an iso machine; Hayward is trying to overcome his massive injury; Rozier is trying to make his paycheck; Brown doesn't know what he is and is hesitant and confused.
Jackson won with ALL TIME great players. Top 25 of ALL TIME great players. Stevens is currently coaching some very good players. If this Celtics team wins a title, it would be akin to that Detroit team winning a title in 2004 than it would be any of Jackson's titles.


I think you are missing the point. The thread has Jacksonís name in the title but itís not about him. The OP doesnít even mention Jackson in his remarks, but mention Jackson on a celtics board and all people can do is rehash the same old jackson bashing mantras. I get it, the guy was a front runner. He won with THE BEST players that played while he was coaching. I still think you can agree that he got players to buy in and play together unlike the coaches that coached the same players before him.

The thread is about Stevens not seeming to be able to do that with the wealth of talent (albeit not THE BEST) on this team. I think they will pull it together because talent wins and they seem like a good group of guys that work hard. But the early signs point to some early coaching/chemistry struggles.

Jackson was possibly a poor choice of comparison but the overall point is valid. Coach should take some blame for not having these guys playing together early.
Except for last year, Stevens teams always take a bit to meld. It doesn't surprise me at all that they are not firing on all cylinders straight out of the gate. And I think it's a ridiculously small sample size to judge if Stevens can get players to buy into his system. He's been able to do it every year he has been here. Don't see that just because they lost 4 of 10 this season that that means he can't get these guys to play well together. Heck, the have the best defense in the league. Kinda tells me the players are buying into the total system. They just have struggled some on the other side of the ball.

Re: Brad Stevens is No Phil Jackson
« Reply #39 on: November 09, 2018, 01:26:39 AM »

Offline KG Living Legend

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Phil had Jordan & Pippen..Shaq & Kobe..Brad dont

End thread.

At least, until thereís some actual analysis comparing the two. Brad has never had a top-10 player. Phil had four top-50 players of all-time, including the GOTME. (Greatest Of The Modern Era).

I think that's the exact point of the the thread. Brad has proved he can elevate lesser players but hasn't proved he can win with talent.

If you believe Phil Jackson is going to the hall of fame bc he had great players there is some truth to that. But other coaches had the same players before him and they didn't win. Jackson's greatest strength was getting players to bury or focus their egos to win multiple championships. Stevens hasn't shown the ability to get great players to play together yet, like Jackson did.

It's not a panic thread. It's a discussion piece. To pass it off as a "hot take" or panic is ignoring the fact that something is not geling with this team. Maybe they figure out, maybe something implodes and change becomes necessary. Fact is it's Brads job to be like Jackson and make it gel. He hasn't done that yet, hope he can.

I wanna love this team but they are not very fun to watch right now. They don't seem like a team, more like individual players that are working on their own things; Tatum wants to be an iso machine; Hayward is trying to overcome his massive injury; Rozier is trying to make his paycheck; Brown doesn't know what he is and is hesitant and confused.
Jackson won with ALL TIME great players. Top 25 of ALL TIME great players. Stevens is currently coaching some very good players. If this Celtics team wins a title, it would be akin to that Detroit team winning a title in 2004 than it would be any of Jackson's titles.


I think you are missing the point. The thread has Jacksonís name in the title but itís not about him. The OP doesnít even mention Jackson in his remarks, but mention Jackson on a celtics board and all people can do is rehash the same old jackson bashing mantras. I get it, the guy was a front runner. He won with THE BEST players that played while he was coaching. I still think you can agree that he got players to buy in and play together unlike the coaches that coached the same players before him.

The thread is about Stevens not seeming to be able to do that with the wealth of talent (albeit not THE BEST) on this team. I think they will pull it together because talent wins and they seem like a good group of guys that work hard. But the early signs point to some early coaching/chemistry struggles.

Jackson was possibly a poor choice of comparison but the overall point is valid. Coach should take some blame for not having these guys playing together early.




 TP Mob. Well said. that is the point everybody thinks it's easy to coach Michael Jordan and Shaquille O'Neal and Kobe Bryant two championships fact is it's still the hardest job for a coach to do to coach the superegos.

 this is really the first time Stevens has been challenged with too many egos not enough playing time and I absolutely love the guy but he is kind of a Beta coach. And that could prove to be a problem with this type of team it's still early time will tell but this team has taken its step backwards.

Re: Brad Stevens is No Phil Jackson
« Reply #40 on: November 09, 2018, 01:38:46 AM »

Offline Chris22

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That play Brad drew up at the end of regulation tonight was brilliant.

Re: Brad Stevens is No Phil Jackson
« Reply #41 on: November 09, 2018, 07:36:41 AM »

Online SHAQATTACK

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Jackso had several once in a lifetime or hundred year type players , who not only had skill .....

but the KG type mindset to win ....no matter the money or fame ......to guys like Kobe , MJ and KG .......winning at their lifes work is all that matters .  This type of guy , given the mindset taught today , is VERy VERy RARE .   Smart has the mindset but was not given the MJ or Kobe gifts .

Re: Brad Stevens is No Phil Jackson
« Reply #42 on: November 09, 2018, 07:43:35 AM »

Offline ETNCeltics

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 Time for Mr Perfect Coach Stevens to get his share of the blame. So he's great with Scrubs and underachievers. He preaches ball movement and wants everyone to share the ball.

 Well that's not how titles are won Brad. At some point when you have the big Egos you have to manage and motivate them properly. It's not easy.

 Brad is not an Alpha coach. It's becoming a big problem. He has to make changes. He's doing nothing. Step up your game Coach. Bench Hayward or Kyrie.

 We are 14 and 14 in the last 28 games Kyrie has started. Start Rozier. Do something. Light a fire. Go back to the starters last year.

Why would he bench our best player? If anyone gets benched it should be JT or JB or both. What is wrong with you? Bench Kyrie, wow....

Bradís trying to teach these guys to learn to play together and get GH back into playing shape. Just about every other team in the league would kill to have him.

Re: Brad Stevens is No Phil Jackson
« Reply #43 on: November 09, 2018, 08:08:36 AM »

Offline GreenEnvy

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Phil had Jordan & Pippen..Shaq & Kobe..Brad dont

End thread.

At least, until thereís some actual analysis comparing the two. Brad has never had a top-10 player. Phil had four top-50 players of all-time, including the GOTME. (Greatest Of The Modern Era).

I think that's the exact point of the the thread. Brad has proved he can elevate lesser players but hasn't proved he can win with talent.

If you believe Phil Jackson is going to the hall of fame bc he had great players there is some truth to that. But other coaches had the same players before him and they didn't win. Jackson's greatest strength was getting players to bury or focus their egos to win multiple championships. Stevens hasn't shown the ability to get great players to play together yet, like Jackson did.

It's not a panic thread. It's a discussion piece. To pass it off as a "hot take" or panic is ignoring the fact that something is not geling with this team. Maybe they figure out, maybe something implodes and change becomes necessary. Fact is it's Brads job to be like Jackson and make it gel. He hasn't done that yet, hope he can.

I wanna love this team but they are not very fun to watch right now. They don't seem like a team, more like individual players that are working on their own things; Tatum wants to be an iso machine; Hayward is trying to overcome his massive injury; Rozier is trying to make his paycheck; Brown doesn't know what he is and is hesitant and confused.

Brad hasnít proven he can win with talent? What type of talent? ATG Jordan-Pippen-Shaw-Kobe talent?

I guess last year didnít mean anything, getting within a half-quarter of the Finals.

And I guess only Pop, Kerr, Doc (lol), Carlisle, Spoelstra, and Lue (LOL) are credible coaches. The hacks that have the likes of Harden, Davis, Giannis, Embiid, Lillard, George, Westbrook, Oladipo, etc etc have all proven they canít win with top tier talent.

I do believe NBA coaches have the most impact on the game (baseball the least), but you canít expect a guy to win a championship in less than 5 years as an NBA coach while BEGINNING a rebuild. There is a difference between what Steve Kerr inherited and what Brad Stevens has. We see what Kerr has done with GSW, but would anyone choose Kerr over Stevens?

Mike Brown basically coached that team to a championship (of course that weasle mustered up the strength to return for the Finals after they ran the table out West, but I wonít get into that). Enough said.
I AM A CELTIC

Re: Brad Stevens is No Phil Jackson
« Reply #44 on: November 09, 2018, 08:45:07 AM »

Offline mobilija

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Phil had Jordan & Pippen..Shaq & Kobe..Brad dont

End thread.

At least, until thereís some actual analysis comparing the two. Brad has never had a top-10 player. Phil had four top-50 players of all-time, including the GOTME. (Greatest Of The Modern Era).

I think that's the exact point of the the thread. Brad has proved he can elevate lesser players but hasn't proved he can win with talent.

If you believe Phil Jackson is going to the hall of fame bc he had great players there is some truth to that. But other coaches had the same players before him and they didn't win. Jackson's greatest strength was getting players to bury or focus their egos to win multiple championships. Stevens hasn't shown the ability to get great players to play together yet, like Jackson did.

It's not a panic thread. It's a discussion piece. To pass it off as a "hot take" or panic is ignoring the fact that something is not geling with this team. Maybe they figure out, maybe something implodes and change becomes necessary. Fact is it's Brads job to be like Jackson and make it gel. He hasn't done that yet, hope he can.

I wanna love this team but they are not very fun to watch right now. They don't seem like a team, more like individual players that are working on their own things; Tatum wants to be an iso machine; Hayward is trying to overcome his massive injury; Rozier is trying to make his paycheck; Brown doesn't know what he is and is hesitant and confused.

Brad hasnít proven he can win with talent? What type of talent? ATG Jordan-Pippen-Shaw-Kobe talent?

I guess last year didnít mean anything, getting within a half-quarter of the Finals.

And I guess only Pop, Kerr, Doc (lol), Carlisle, Spoelstra, and Lue (LOL) are credible coaches. The hacks that have the likes of Harden, Davis, Giannis, Embiid, Lillard, George, Westbrook, Oladipo, etc etc have all proven they canít win with top tier talent.

I do believe NBA coaches have the most impact on the game (baseball the least), but you canít expect a guy to win a championship in less than 5 years as an NBA coach while BEGINNING a rebuild. There is a difference between what Steve Kerr inherited and what Brad Stevens has. We see what Kerr has done with GSW, but would anyone choose Kerr over Stevens?

Mike Brown basically coached that team to a championship (of course that weasle mustered up the strength to return for the Finals after they ran the table out West, but I wonít get into that). Enough said.

Last year was great! He got a bunch of YOUNG BUDDING players to dig down and make a deep playoff run.
The year before was fantastic! He turned a diminutive unheralded player into a superstar.

He's done great with motivating young players and maximizing talent. But this is his first test to coach grown men with egos. Players that were stars before they came to Boston and players that think they are stars because of last years success. So far the results are meh.

Kyrie going superhuman is what is winning games right now, not Stevens coaching.

Never said he wasn't a credible coach, you put words in my mouth. I love Brad Stevens, think he is great. Let's see him make the next step in his evolution and coach player's egos.

 

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