Author Topic: Trump says he will void birthright citizenship  (Read 7522 times)

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Re: Trump says he will void birthright citizenship
« Reply #75 on: October 31, 2018, 01:17:10 PM »

Offline Sophomore

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Meanwhile, the President is telling people that the caravan has broken through the Mexican army and is on its way to the US. BE AFRAID!!!

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1057612657665171457

I'd say I'm surprised such a serial fabricator could become president, but then, he did enter politics claiming that the last president wasn't born in the US. This behavior was on full display when people voted for him.


Re: Trump says he will void birthright citizenship
« Reply #76 on: October 31, 2018, 01:33:19 PM »

Online mmmmm

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Meanwhile, the President is telling people that the caravan has broken through the Mexican army and is on its way to the US. BE AFRAID!!!

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1057612657665171457

I'd say I'm surprised such a serial fabricator could become president, but then, he did enter politics claiming that the last president wasn't born in the US. This behavior was on full display when people voted for him.

So if he gets his base to believe that this rabble caravan of poor Central American people looking for relief from the disaster that their home country has become represents some sort of violent 'threat' to the U.S. ... is that supposed to give him cover to authorize some sort of draconian measures?

This is way past insane now.  He wants, for pure political greed reasons, to turn what should be a humanitarian issue into a national security / military issue.

Meanwhile, there are still hundreds of children held illegally by the U.S. government separated from their families.
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Re: Trump says he will void birthright citizenship
« Reply #77 on: October 31, 2018, 01:41:22 PM »

Offline arctic 3.0

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Meanwhile, the President is telling people that the caravan has broken through the Mexican army and is on its way to the US. BE AFRAID!!!

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1057612657665171457

I'd say I'm surprised such a serial fabricator could become president, but then, he did enter politics claiming that the last president wasn't born in the US. This behavior was on full display when people voted for him.
He is such a total fraud.
I am so ashamed and angry that this (expletive) is our President

Re: Trump says he will void birthright citizenship
« Reply #78 on: October 31, 2018, 01:51:07 PM »

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Meanwhile, the President is telling people that the caravan has broken through the Mexican army and is on its way to the US. BE AFRAID!!!

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1057612657665171457

I'd say I'm surprised such a serial fabricator could become president, but then, he did enter politics claiming that the last president wasn't born in the US. This behavior was on full display when people voted for him.

So if he gets his base to believe that this rabble caravan of poor Central American people looking for relief from the disaster that their home country has become represents some sort of violent 'threat' to the U.S. ... is that supposed to give him cover to authorize some sort of draconian measures?

This is way past insane now.  He wants, for pure political greed reasons, to turn what should be a humanitarian issue into a national security / military issue.

Meanwhile, there are still hundreds of children held illegally by the U.S. government separated from their families.

Okay, this is starting to clarify where maybe the Trump is getting his thinking.

The, "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" clause in the 14th was intended to provide 3 very specific exceptions:

1) diplomats (who are under the jurisdiction of their own country's law)
2) indigenous (people who were under the jurisdiction of their tribe) and
3) invaders (people who are governed by laws of war)

That's it.  Those are the exceptions that everyone agrees about.

So ... is Trump basically asserting that he can, through EO assert that illegal immigrants are tantamount to being 'invaders' and that they are governed by laws of war?   I.E., to put them in category (3)?

This is becoming very chilling.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt?  Incompetent?  Which is worse?  Does it matter?  It sucks.

Re: Trump says he will void birthright citizenship
« Reply #79 on: October 31, 2018, 01:54:41 PM »

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If this caravan is deemed an invading force will Trump have the military engage them and wipe them out at the border? I don't like where this is going.

Re: Trump says he will void birthright citizenship
« Reply #80 on: October 31, 2018, 02:22:05 PM »

Offline Surferdad

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If this caravan is deemed an invading force will Trump have the military engage them and wipe them out at the border? I don't like where this is going.
You think he wants a war?  Yes, of course.  It'll be another distraction and add to his cache as the greatest president who ever lived,(in a Trump tone) and everybody knows it...

Re: Trump says he will void birthright citizenship
« Reply #81 on: October 31, 2018, 03:20:48 PM »

Offline Sophomore

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Personally? I think he is going to hype this until the election and then within a week it will go down the memory hole. They will take it up again in time for 2020.

Re: Trump says he will void birthright citizenship
« Reply #82 on: October 31, 2018, 03:33:40 PM »

Online Roy H.

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If this caravan is deemed an invading force will Trump have the military engage them and wipe them out at the border? I don't like where this is going.

No.  I'm not sure what the plan is, frankly, but any use of force against the unarmed -- particularly women and children -- will play worse than "children in cages".


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Re: Trump says he will void birthright citizenship
« Reply #83 on: October 31, 2018, 04:00:18 PM »

Online mmmmm

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If this caravan is deemed an invading force will Trump have the military engage them and wipe them out at the border? I don't like where this is going.

No.  I'm not sure what the plan is, frankly, but any use of force against the unarmed -- particularly women and children -- will play worse than "children in cages".

Of course, that doesn't preclude him using the military to capture these 'invaders' and once again, putting folks in cages.  After all.  It's not exactly unprecedented now, is it?    The key question is, will he use the situation to make an assertion about their 'jurisdiction' status?
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Re: Trump says he will void birthright citizenship
« Reply #84 on: October 31, 2018, 04:06:28 PM »

Online slamtheking

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If this caravan is deemed an invading force will Trump have the military engage them and wipe them out at the border? I don't like where this is going.

No.  I'm not sure what the plan is, frankly, but any use of force against the unarmed -- particularly women and children -- will play worse than "children in cages".
under any other administration I'd automatically agree with you but having heard Trump's rhetoric and the interviews with his followers before and after his rallies regarding immigration, I'm not so sure there isn't going to be a larger-than-anticipated volume of his followers that are totally on board shooting immigrants trying to cross the border. 

Re: Trump says he will void birthright citizenship
« Reply #85 on: October 31, 2018, 04:23:23 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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If this caravan is deemed an invading force will Trump have the military engage them and wipe them out at the border? I don't like where this is going.

No.  I'm not sure what the plan is, frankly, but any use of force against the unarmed -- particularly women and children -- will play worse than "children in cages".
under any other administration I'd automatically agree with you but having heard Trump's rhetoric and the interviews with his followers before and after his rallies regarding immigration, I'm not so sure there isn't going to be a larger-than-anticipated volume of his followers that are totally on board shooting immigrants trying to cross the border.

The last sentence is definitely true, there's a substantial portion of Trump supporters who are extremely horny for the government mass murdering refugees. But to actually mow down or otherwise use force en masse against people like this would in fact be terribly politically damaging, not to mention a, whaddya call it? - crime against humanity.

Re: Trump says he will void birthright citizenship
« Reply #86 on: October 31, 2018, 04:33:13 PM »

Online slamtheking

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If this caravan is deemed an invading force will Trump have the military engage them and wipe them out at the border? I don't like where this is going.

No.  I'm not sure what the plan is, frankly, but any use of force against the unarmed -- particularly women and children -- will play worse than "children in cages".
under any other administration I'd automatically agree with you but having heard Trump's rhetoric and the interviews with his followers before and after his rallies regarding immigration, I'm not so sure there isn't going to be a larger-than-anticipated volume of his followers that are totally on board shooting immigrants trying to cross the border.

The last sentence is definitely true, there's a substantial portion of Trump supporters who are extremely horny for the government mass murdering refugees. But to actually mow down or otherwise use force en masse against people like this would in fact be terribly politically damaging, not to mention a, whaddya call it? - crime against humanity.
politically damaging
- in the eyes of the world -- probably.  would certainly remove any vestiges of moral superiority for the US
- in the eyes of his followers -- not likely. 

Re: Trump says he will void birthright citizenship
« Reply #87 on: October 31, 2018, 06:23:03 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

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I'll be clear here, I do not approve of Trump's characterization of this caravan as violent thugs and criminals hell bent on invading and terrorizing the United States.  It is ridiculous, politically motivated, and intended to play towards people's bigoted tendencies.  The vast majority of these people are merely looking for the opportunity for a better life.  I have no stomach for making these people the targets of our ire, nor treating them like war criminals, it is repulsive.

But to speak plainly, I do not see it as a good thing for the economic solvency and well-being of our country if we cannot reasonably control the flow of immigrants through our borders.  We have laws that need to be followed, laws that establish order and are meant to avoid chaos.  We cannot allow hordes of people to just show up on our doorstep and expect to be given entry simply because that is what they desire.  It sets a dangerous precedent that our laws nor our sovereignty do not need to be respected.
 
I do not believe that economic hardship should be a qualifying condition for asylum.  Asylum should be reserved for escaping genocide, political/religious/ethic oppression, and other forms violence.  The vast majority of the people in this caravan would not seem to meet this criteria based on what I've seen reported.  The majority of them are simply looking to escape places of economic hardship.  That is not something I take lightly, but again, as unfortunate as it may be, I do not think it is practical nor prudent to let but maybe a small percentage of these people in based on the condition of asylum.

Re: Trump says he will void birthright citizenship
« Reply #88 on: November 01, 2018, 10:23:15 AM »

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I'll be clear here, I do not approve of Trump's characterization of this caravan as violent thugs and criminals hell bent on invading and terrorizing the United States.  It is ridiculous, politically motivated, and intended to play towards people's bigoted tendencies.  The vast majority of these people are merely looking for the opportunity for a better life.  I have no stomach for making these people the targets of our ire, nor treating them like war criminals, it is repulsive.

But to speak plainly, I do not see it as a good thing for the economic solvency and well-being of our country if we cannot reasonably control the flow of immigrants through our borders.  We have laws that need to be followed, laws that establish order and are meant to avoid chaos.  We cannot allow hordes of people to just show up on our doorstep and expect to be given entry simply because that is what they desire.  It sets a dangerous precedent that our laws nor our sovereignty do not need to be respected.
 
I do not believe that economic hardship should be a qualifying condition for asylum.  Asylum should be reserved for escaping genocide, political/religious/ethic oppression, and other forms violence.  The vast majority of the people in this caravan would not seem to meet this criteria based on what I've seen reported. The majority of them are simply looking to escape places of economic hardship.  That is not something I take lightly, but again, as unfortunate as it may be, I do not think it is practical nor prudent to let but maybe a small percentage of these people in based on the condition of asylum.

It's fine that you believe that.  If you were to track news out of the Northern Triangle (Guatemala, El Savador and the Honduras) you might have a different belief.   This is one of, if not THE most violent regions in the world.  El Salvador itself has the highest homicide rate in the world.   The area is dominated by gangs, often at war with each other.   This report from the Council on Foreign Relations is a good start.

https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/central-americas-violent-northern-triangle

That said, what you believe is based on what you know.   In the end, each human being that comes to our borders should be properly vetted and a decision on their status should be granted based on their actual true situation.    Certainly that is not easy and the numbers might seem daunting.  But that is a humanitarian and bureaucratic issue.   One that could be solved by proper funding, staffing and organization.

Trump is turning it into a military issue purely for political reasons.     Instead of spending taxpayer money to properly handle this in a humanitarian manner, he is spending almost certainly far more taxpayer money to redeploy thousands of troops from their prior deployments to become a political show pony at the border.   He's going to rattle his saber to get his base all fired up.
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Re: Trump says he will void birthright citizenship
« Reply #89 on: November 01, 2018, 11:32:11 AM »

Online trickybilly

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I'll be clear here, I do not approve of Trump's characterization of this caravan as violent thugs and criminals hell bent on invading and terrorizing the United States.  It is ridiculous, politically motivated, and intended to play towards people's bigoted tendencies.  The vast majority of these people are merely looking for the opportunity for a better life.  I have no stomach for making these people the targets of our ire, nor treating them like war criminals, it is repulsive.

But to speak plainly, I do not see it as a good thing for the economic solvency and well-being of our country if we cannot reasonably control the flow of immigrants through our borders.  We have laws that need to be followed, laws that establish order and are meant to avoid chaos.  We cannot allow hordes of people to just show up on our doorstep and expect to be given entry simply because that is what they desire.  It sets a dangerous precedent that our laws nor our sovereignty do not need to be respected.
 
I do not believe that economic hardship should be a qualifying condition for asylum.  Asylum should be reserved for escaping genocide, political/religious/ethic oppression, and other forms violence.  The vast majority of the people in this caravan would not seem to meet this criteria based on what I've seen reported.  The majority of them are simply looking to escape places of economic hardship.  That is not something I take lightly, but again, as unfortunate as it may be, I do not think it is practical nor prudent to let but maybe a small percentage of these people in based on the condition of asylum.

This might be beside the point you are trying to make, but actually there is a butt ton of research that shows that immigration is actually really good for economies.

Again, no doubt missing your point about economic hardship not being good enough for asylum, but, frankly, I wouldn't mind a world where I could simply rock up on any countries doorstep if for whatever reason I was poor (i.e. not a politician or a crony), and say, "willing to work!". I'd probably sell weed on the side for a while though.  ;D ;D ;D
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