Author Topic: Caravan Of Immigrants Heading Toward the Border  (Read 4441 times)

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Re: Caravan Of Immigrants Heading Toward the Border
« Reply #15 on: October 24, 2018, 12:50:04 AM »

Offline kraidstar

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OMG the brown people are coming!!!!! (sarcasm)

Enforce the laws, stop the race-baiting fearmongering.

Not complicated.

It is complicated, though.  Once those asylum seekers reach US soil, we get to either 1. Let them in, or 2. see stories about kids in cages.
It is complicated but the solution is not at either end of the political spectrum but somewhere in the middle which unfortunately, isn't going to happen any time soon.

The solutions aren't that complicated at all. You can enforce the law without putting kids in cages.

You can vet people to see which ones are legit asylum seekers and which aren't. it happens all the time. It's fake panic about a problem that will never be even close to 100% solved.

This talk of "caravans" is politically motivated, mean-spirited, and is certainly race-baiting.

Re: Caravan Of Immigrants Heading Toward the Border
« Reply #16 on: October 24, 2018, 01:25:35 AM »

Offline KGs Knee

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OMG the brown people are coming!!!!! (sarcasm)

Enforce the laws, stop the race-baiting fearmongering.

Not complicated.

It is complicated, though.  Once those asylum seekers reach US soil, we get to either 1. Let them in, or 2. see stories about kids in cages.
It is complicated but the solution is not at either end of the political spectrum but somewhere in the middle which unfortunately, isn't going to happen any time soon.

The solutions aren't that complicated at all. You can enforce the law without putting kids in cages.

You can vet people to see which ones are legit asylum seekers and which aren't. it happens all the time. It's fake panic about a problem that will never be even close to 100% solved.

This talk of "caravans" is politically motivated, mean-spirited, and is certainly race-baiting.

Describing a group of ~10k people that is travelling together across a swath of land is by definition a 'caravan'.  Labeling this group as such is just a simple matter of fact.

Now, Trump calling this caravan a group of criminals, that might very well be politically motivated, mean-spirited, racism.  I'd expect no less from him, though.

Now, as for what to do with these people, if and when they arrive at our border, I'm not sure what the best course of action is.  I'm sure some people will say, "just let them all in", and others will say, "you're not welcome here, go home".  The real answer is somewhere in the middle.

I don't want to turn away violently oppressed people, nor people who are seeking political asylum.  People who are legitimately in danger of being murdered, enslaved, jailed, ect should not be turned back.  But people who are simply looking for a better financial opportunity do need to go home and wait in line like the rest of the world.  That might seem harsh, but our country cannot endlessly continue to support every single person that wishes to come here.


Re: Caravan Of Immigrants Heading Toward the Border
« Reply #17 on: October 24, 2018, 04:07:47 AM »

Offline Erik

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Just curious, but how do we vet thousands of these people for asylum? This entire thing is going to turn into a complete mess and I think that Trump will be blamed when It seems like we’re all in agreement that this movement needs to be stopped in order to protect our border, promote fairness, and IMO set an example for future repeaters. As someone who wishes that our president and country succeeds, I’m hoping this can be resolved well.

Re: Caravan Of Immigrants Heading Toward the Border
« Reply #18 on: October 24, 2018, 06:07:18 AM »

Offline Neurotic Guy

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OMG the brown people are coming!!!!! (sarcasm)

Enforce the laws, stop the race-baiting fearmongering.

Not complicated.

It is complicated, though.  Once those asylum seekers reach US soil, we get to either 1. Let them in, or 2. see stories about kids in cages.
It is complicated but the solution is not at either end of the political spectrum but somewhere in the middle which unfortunately, isn't going to happen any time soon.

The solutions aren't that complicated at all. You can enforce the law without putting kids in cages.

You can vet people to see which ones are legit asylum seekers and which aren't. it happens all the time. It's fake panic about a problem that will never be even close to 100% solved.

This talk of "caravans" is politically motivated, mean-spirited, and is certainly race-baiting.

Describing a group of ~10k people that is travelling together across a swath of land is by definition a 'caravan'.  Labeling this group as such is just a simple matter of fact.

Now, Trump calling this caravan a group of criminals, that might very well be politically motivated, mean-spirited, racism.  I'd expect no less from him, though.

Now, as for what to do with these people, if and when they arrive at our border, I'm not sure what the best course of action is.  I'm sure some people will say, "just let them all in", and others will say, "you're not welcome here, go home".  The real answer is somewhere in the middle.

I don't want to turn away violently oppressed people, nor people who are seeking political asylum.  People who are legitimately in danger of being murdered, enslaved, jailed, ect should not be turned back.  But people who are simply looking for a better financial opportunity do need to go home and wait in line like the rest of the world.  That might seem harsh, but our country cannot endlessly continue to support every single person that wishes to come here.

I haven’t heard anyone say “just let them all in”.  I’m sure someone, somewhere thinks that, but haven’t heard any politician, even the most progressive, suggest that we not follow rules around admission to our country.

To Erik’s comment, “setting an example” isn’t my favorite phrase as it implies rigidity, but if what you meant was that we follow our own laws - which include a vetting process for asylum - then count me in.  I get that vetting thousands costs time and money, but this is what a humane, moral country does. There would not be political cost to Trump to say that we are efficiently determining the legitimacy of asylum claims, and as we determine who meets criteria we are treating people humanely. He can state the truth, that meeting asylum criteria is a high bar and very few will be allowed entry as a result.  The example we set is decency, order, fairness, and process.   If we reach a point where vetting is untenable due to volume, then we address that issue, but I actually haven’t heard this complaint — the complaint hasn’t been around the US following our entry policy, it has been about when we haven’t. 

One thing for sure is that Trump is continuing to successfully expand the divide among Americans — rather un-great.

Re: Caravan Of Immigrants Heading Toward the Border
« Reply #19 on: October 24, 2018, 06:12:41 AM »

Online Roy H.

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OMG the brown people are coming!!!!! (sarcasm)

Enforce the laws, stop the race-baiting fearmongering.

Not complicated.

It is complicated, though.  Once those asylum seekers reach US soil, we get to either 1. Let them in, or 2. see stories about kids in cages.
It is complicated but the solution is not at either end of the political spectrum but somewhere in the middle which unfortunately, isn't going to happen any time soon.

The solutions aren't that complicated at all. You can enforce the law without putting kids in cages.

You can vet people to see which ones are legit asylum seekers and which aren't. it happens all the time. It's fake panic about a problem that will never be even close to 100% solved.

This talk of "caravans" is politically motivated, mean-spirited, and is certainly race-baiting.

Well, no, you can’t.

For those seeking asylum, we need to process their applications, which takes months. While those applications are pending, we either let them into the US, or put them in detention facilities.

And, as KGK said, this is literally a caravan.  The media is calling it a caravan. What’s the politically correct term?
« Last Edit: October 24, 2018, 06:36:26 AM by Roy H. »


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Re: Caravan Of Immigrants Heading Toward the Border
« Reply #20 on: October 24, 2018, 07:41:14 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Quote
Absolutely agree with this. But why lie about the people in this caravan and their intentions? Why decry them all as criminals and say Middle Easterners are in the caravan? Why make it out like this caravan is going to be here any day when it's 1000 miles away and moving very slowly?

I get your point,  but how do you defend them ripping down fences and destroying property in their journey here?

https://www.facebook.com/NoticiasTelemundo/videos/513431869123566/

I get their are desperate to get here and the like...

Quote
I think that Trump will be blamed when It seems like we’re all in agreement that this movement needs to be stopped in order to protect our border, promote fairness, and IMO set an example for future repeaters.

I disagree, this kind of thing is only going to help the GOP in the midterms.   They will claim the Dems want open border and get good political capital off this matter. I think this helps his base galvanize. Most of the press is going to hammer Pres. Trump regardless.

Quote
Looking at voters’ priorities for immigration policy, there is some common ground among partisans. When asked whether the policy priority should be “creating a way for immigrants already here illegally to become citizens if they meet certain requirements,” or “better border security and stronger enforcement of our immigration laws” – or whether both should be given equal priority – nearly half of Republican voters (48%) and about as many Democratic voters (45%) say both should be given equal priority.

Still, far more Democratic voters (49%) than Republican voters (11%) say the priority should be on creating a way for those in the U.S. illegally to become citizens if they meet certain conditions. By contrast, far more Republican voters (39%) than Democratic voters (5%) say the focus should be on better border security and enforcement.

Since 2016, the share of adults in the general public who say border security should take priority over creating a way for those in the country illegally to become citizens has decreased. Two years ago, about a quarter (24%) said stronger law enforcement should be the priority for dealing with illegal immigration. Today, about two-in-ten (19%) say this.

During that same period, the share who prioritize creating a pathway for illegal immigrants to gain citizenship has increased modestly – from 29% in 2016 to 33%

There are large demographic differences within the general public on priorities in dealing with illegal immigration.

Women are much more likely to prioritize a legal pathway to citizenship than men (40% to 27%).

Though a plurality of whites say both should be equally prioritized, whites (23%) are far more likely than blacks (6%) and Hispanics (9%) to say better border security should take priority.

About half of Hispanics (47%) say a pathway for legal citizenship should be the priority, while 43% say both should be equally prioritized. Among blacks, 53% say both should be equal priorities, while 37% say the priority should be creating a way for those in the country illegally to become citizens.

Republicans are more likely than Democrats to prioritize stronger law enforcement, while Democrats are more likely to prioritize a path to citizenship for those currently in the U.S. illegally.

http://www.people-press.org/2018/10/04/2018-midterm-voters-issues-and-political-values/

If those 6% of Afro-Americans and 9% of Latinos and 9% of Dems who favor border security,  if those folk switch sides on this issue, then the blue wave dies.   Not saying it will happen but it could.  One thing about polls too, is that people will often say what they think the pollster wants to hear.   How else, do you explain Pres.  Trump doing far better than the polls suggested.   I think the same could be true here.

Read some of these polls.

http://www.pollingreport.com/immigration.htm

BTW, to the OP, those words are clearly a well laid trap.

Quote
“We simply cannot allow people to pour into the United States undetected, undocumented, unchecked, and circumventing the line of people who are waiting patiently, diligently, and lawfully to become immigrants in this country.”

Do you agree with this statement?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74X0HPn8Pls

President Obama said this.....Oh my.... But the party has moved far left of him, now as hard as that is to believe.

Quote
This talk of "caravans" is politically motivated, mean-spirited, and is certainly race-baiting.

Really, get a grip man, that is a completely hysterical comment, full of hyperbole.  When arguments go straight to race , you really don't have much to offer to the conversation as you go right in demonizing the opposition. 

Here is the definition of a caravan:

Quote
Caravan: \ˈker-ə-ˌvan":  a group of people with vehicles or animals who travel together for safety through a dangerous area

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/caravan

I think they pass the definition.  Caravan is what it is and the politically corrupt terms.  Would you prefer something like "mass of refugees"?
« Last Edit: October 24, 2018, 08:11:55 AM by Celtics4ever »

Re: Caravan Of Immigrants Heading Toward the Border
« Reply #21 on: October 24, 2018, 07:52:05 AM »

Offline Vermont Green

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“We simply cannot allow people to pour into the United States undetected, undocumented, unchecked, and circumventing the line of people who are waiting patiently, diligently, and lawfully to become immigrants in this country.”

Do you agree with this statement?

Undetected?  No, people seeking asylum are detected.
Undocumented?  No, if granted asylum, they will be fully documented.
Unchecked?, Also no, if seeking asylum, they are vetted.
Circumventing?  This one has some merit.  Refugees work though a different program then other immigrants.  That is just the way it works.

Refugees from poor, often war-torn countries is an issue.  We have current laws that are probably not sufficient to deal with the scale of the crisis in the world.  But this statement has nothing to do with that.  It is intentionally conflating the issue of people illegally crossing the boarder with refugees.  Actually most undocumented non-citizens are people who simply come as visitors legally and then don't leave.  Or are children of undocumented non-citizens.  A small percentage sneak across the boarder.

The US or any other developed country cannot take in refugees at the scale that would be required to address the problems in the world.  We also cannot simply close our boarders and try to ignore the problem.  It is a very tough issue.  The long term solution will have to involve addressing the issues at the places the refugees are fleeing.

Re: Caravan Of Immigrants Heading Toward the Border
« Reply #22 on: October 24, 2018, 08:12:51 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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We also cannot simply close our boarders and try to ignore the problem.  It is a very tough issue.  The long term solution will have to involve addressing the issues at the places the refugees are fleeing.

It is very complex, and no matter happens people will be angry.

Re: Caravan Of Immigrants Heading Toward the Border
« Reply #23 on: October 24, 2018, 08:50:29 AM »

Offline indeedproceed

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[...]President Obama said this.....Oh my.... But the party has moved far left of him, now as hard as that is to believe.

Neither party has been static over the past few years, but only one has a president who publicly self-identifies as a nationalist. I'm not sure "Look how left the left has left" has much teeth in a time of tea-party and Trump.

"You've gotta respect a 15-percent 3-point shooter. A guy
like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: Caravan Of Immigrants Heading Toward the Border
« Reply #24 on: October 24, 2018, 09:33:20 AM »

Online fairweatherfan

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[...]President Obama said this.....Oh my.... But the party has moved far left of him, now as hard as that is to believe.

Neither party has been static over the past few years, but only one has a president who publicly self-identifies as a nationalist. I'm not sure "Look how left the left has left" has much teeth in a time of tea-party and Trump.

The mainstream Democrats haven't even moved substantively on border enforcement policy that I'm aware of, there's just been constant shrieks of "open borders!!" from the right that have succeeded in getting the public to attach it to them.

Re: Caravan Of Immigrants Heading Toward the Border
« Reply #25 on: October 24, 2018, 09:35:24 AM »

Offline indeedproceed

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[...]President Obama said this.....Oh my.... But the party has moved far left of him, now as hard as that is to believe.

Neither party has been static over the past few years, but only one has a president who publicly self-identifies as a nationalist. I'm not sure "Look how left the left has left" has much teeth in a time of tea-party and Trump.

The mainstream Democrats haven't even moved substantively on border enforcement policy that I'm aware of, there's just been constant shrieks of "open borders!!" from the right that have succeeded in getting the public to attach it to them.

Yeah I was more thinking positions on healthcare especially.

"You've gotta respect a 15-percent 3-point shooter. A guy
like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: Caravan Of Immigrants Heading Toward the Border
« Reply #26 on: October 24, 2018, 09:56:02 AM »

Offline Vermont Green

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[...]President Obama said this.....Oh my.... But the party has moved far left of him, now as hard as that is to believe.

Neither party has been static over the past few years, but only one has a president who publicly self-identifies as a nationalist. I'm not sure "Look how left the left has left" has much teeth in a time of tea-party and Trump.

The mainstream Democrats haven't even moved substantively on border enforcement policy that I'm aware of, there's just been constant shrieks of "open borders!!" from the right that have succeeded in getting the public to attach it to them.

This is my issue with the republicans.  They are not offering any policy to address the problem, rather just trying to scare people into thinking democrats want open boarders.  Trump said on many occasions during the campaign that if Hillary was elected, she wanted to let in 200 Million immigrants.

Re: Caravan Of Immigrants Heading Toward the Border
« Reply #27 on: October 24, 2018, 10:12:41 AM »

Online fairweatherfan

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[...]President Obama said this.....Oh my.... But the party has moved far left of him, now as hard as that is to believe.

Neither party has been static over the past few years, but only one has a president who publicly self-identifies as a nationalist. I'm not sure "Look how left the left has left" has much teeth in a time of tea-party and Trump.

The mainstream Democrats haven't even moved substantively on border enforcement policy that I'm aware of, there's just been constant shrieks of "open borders!!" from the right that have succeeded in getting the public to attach it to them.

This is my issue with the republicans.  They are not offering any policy to address the problem, rather just trying to scare people into thinking democrats want open boarders.  Trump said on many occasions during the campaign that if Hillary was elected, she wanted to let in 200 Million immigrants.

It's also very arguable to what extent it's a major problem worth spending massive new amounts of resources on. Once you wash away all the screaming and fearmongering illegal southern border crossings peaked about 20 years ago and dropped substantially long before Trump even ran. Ironically they're actually up a bit since Trump took office, and refugee issues in general are accelerating rapidly, but the "crisis" of illegal immigration broadly has a lot more to do with growing racial anxiety than growing border crossing.


Re: Caravan Of Immigrants Heading Toward the Border
« Reply #28 on: October 24, 2018, 10:17:59 AM »

Online Sophomore

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[...]President Obama said this.....Oh my.... But the party has moved far left of him, now as hard as that is to believe.

Neither party has been static over the past few years, but only one has a president who publicly self-identifies as a nationalist. I'm not sure "Look how left the left has left" has much teeth in a time of tea-party and Trump.

The mainstream Democrats haven't even moved substantively on border enforcement policy that I'm aware of, there's just been constant shrieks of "open borders!!" from the right that have succeeded in getting the public to attach it to them.

This is my issue with the republicans.  They are not offering any policy to address the problem, rather just trying to scare people into thinking democrats want open boarders.  Trump said on many occasions during the campaign that if Hillary was elected, she wanted to let in 200 Million immigrants.

Which is linked to other bogus claims - like, 3 million people voted illegally in California. It’s absurd on its face, there isn’t even a shred of support for it. But it “feels” true to Rs so they get angry.

 

Re: Caravan Of Immigrants Heading Toward the Border
« Reply #29 on: October 24, 2018, 10:26:09 AM »

Online Roy H.

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[...]President Obama said this.....Oh my.... But the party has moved far left of him, now as hard as that is to believe.

Neither party has been static over the past few years, but only one has a president who publicly self-identifies as a nationalist. I'm not sure "Look how left the left has left" has much teeth in a time of tea-party and Trump.

The mainstream Democrats haven't even moved substantively on border enforcement policy that I'm aware of, there's just been constant shrieks of "open borders!!" from the right that have succeeded in getting the public to attach it to them.

This is my issue with the republicans.  They are not offering any policy to address the problem, rather just trying to scare people into thinking democrats want open boarders.  Trump said on many occasions during the campaign that if Hillary was elected, she wanted to let in 200 Million immigrants.

Democrats don’t help themselves with sanctuary cities, “Abolish ICE” , etc.


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