Author Topic: Is Elizabeth Warren an American Indian?  (Read 5346 times)

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Re: Is Elizabeth Warren an American Indian?
« Reply #45 on: October 16, 2018, 05:08:14 PM »

Online Roy H.

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And I couldn't care less what Warren identified herself as. Like I said, I judge her on her politics and the work she has done as a representative of Massachusetts.

Should all politicians be held to that standard? “I don’t care what lies they’ve told, I’m just judging them on their policies and results”?

Because if so, Trump looks a lot more palatable.
Doesn't Trump get a free pass from Republicans even though he has been divorced several times, has more than 10 women claiming sexual assault against him and went into bankruptcy like 6 times? The man claims to be the best business man ever who only started with a small loan from his dad(not true). And he claims to love the Bible and gets Communion as often as possible. But conservative Republicans and Evangelical Christian Republicans just don't care about those things.

Politicians lie. It's what they do. Warren was told she was part Native American by her family and for many years identified with that ancestry. If that's a lie, so be it. A ton of politicians get free rides for lies a lot more serious than that.

Yes, many Republican voters are huge hypocrites, as are Democrat voters.

But, we’re not talking about our fellow partisans. It’s about our own standards. So, I’m adking what your general standards are regarding politicians lying, plagiarizing and being hypocritical. Does that stuff matter? Does it only matter when the other side does it?

You should answer your own questions. You voted for Trump, correct?

Of course it matters. I don’t ignore it.  But, Trump is no worse a human being than Hillary.


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Re: Is Elizabeth Warren an American Indian?
« Reply #46 on: October 16, 2018, 05:09:31 PM »

Offline mobilija

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Hard to find a politician that doesn’t lie and isn’t disingenuous

While true, I think we’d all be better if we called people of both parties on this crap. Instead, we tend to explain things away when it’s in our own party’s favor, and condemn it when the other “side” does it.

Not so long ago, being of poor moral character seemed to be an impediment to the Presidency. Bill Clinton “didn’t inhale”. Gary Hart’s career was over because he had an affair. Granted, morality was always pretty selective (Ted Kennedy), but it existed.

Now it’s just “they all lie, they all cheat, so I don’t care”. That just leads us further down our descent as a society.  Nobody cares about values, and we’re willing to accept blatant hypocrisy so long as somebody is on our side of the aisle  (https://www.aol.com/article/news/2018/10/15/major-womens-groups-silent-on-hillary-clintons-abuse-of-power-comments/23561908/).  Maybe it’s time to remember that politicians work for us.

Seems like you’re talking out of both sides of your mouth. “Be fair and impartial when guaging politician dishonesty!” But all your examples of dishonest politicians are from the left.....

Re: Is Elizabeth Warren an American Indian?
« Reply #47 on: October 16, 2018, 05:12:50 PM »

Online Roy H.

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Hard to find a politician that doesn’t lie and isn’t disingenuous

While true, I think we’d all be better if we called people of both parties on this crap. Instead, we tend to explain things away when it’s in our own party’s favor, and condemn it when the other “side” does it.

Not so long ago, being of poor moral character seemed to be an impediment to the Presidency. Bill Clinton “didn’t inhale”. Gary Hart’s career was over because he had an affair. Granted, morality was always pretty selective (Ted Kennedy), but it existed.

Now it’s just “they all lie, they all cheat, so I don’t care”. That just leads us further down our descent as a society.  Nobody cares about values, and we’re willing to accept blatant hypocrisy so long as somebody is on our side of the aisle  (https://www.aol.com/article/news/2018/10/15/major-womens-groups-silent-on-hillary-clintons-abuse-of-power-comments/23561908/).  Maybe it’s time to remember that politicians work for us.

Seems like you’re talking out of both sides of your mouth. “Be fair and impartial when guaging politician dishonesty!” But all your examples of dishonest politicians are from the left.....

Well, except for Trump. But, he started as a Democrat I guess.


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Re: Is Elizabeth Warren an American Indian?
« Reply #48 on: October 16, 2018, 05:13:52 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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I honestly find it hard to fathom that she proudly posted her DNA results like it was a slam dunk.   Most Europeans have more Native American DNA, and she is well below that average.   In fact, she may have South American more so than American Indian.  A silver, not enough to qualify for native American benefits in any tribe.

Whether your from the left or right, she wrongly claimed that she was Native American to advance her career and land that job at Harvard.   That makes her dishonest in my book.   She is a sane dishonest, and not a serial liar like Pres. Trump but she is fraud in my eyes after the results of this test and took that position away from someone with a much better claim to being a minority.  Pres. Trump was not gracious about this either.

This won't play well in the Midwest.   Folks were laughing about her at work all day.  GOP friends feel it validated her and my liberal ones, are embarrassed and fear this will hurt her chances down the road.   Also, one has to question her political acumen, as the Dems are doing well in the poll, and she drops this circus on them.   That was dumb no matter what side of the political aisle your on and bad timing.

Re: Is Elizabeth Warren an American Indian?
« Reply #49 on: October 16, 2018, 05:18:10 PM »

Offline mobilija

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And I couldn't care less what Warren identified herself as. Like I said, I judge her on her politics and the work she has done as a representative of Massachusetts.

Should all politicians be held to that standard? “I don’t care what lies they’ve told, I’m just judging them on their policies and results”?

Because if so, Trump looks a lot more palatable.
Doesn't Trump get a free pass from Republicans even though he has been divorced several times, has more than 10 women claiming sexual assault against him and went into bankruptcy like 6 times? The man claims to be the best business man ever who only started with a small loan from his dad(not true). And he claims to love the Bible and gets Communion as often as possible. But conservative Republicans and Evangelical Christian Republicans just don't care about those things.

Politicians lie. It's what they do. Warren was told she was part Native American by her family and for many years identified with that ancestry. If that's a lie, so be it. A ton of politicians get free rides for lies a lot more serious than that.

Yes, many Republican voters are huge hypocrites, as are Democrat voters.

But, we’re not talking about our fellow partisans. It’s about our own standards. So, I’m adking what your general standards are regarding politicians lying, plagiarizing and being hypocritical. Does that stuff matter? Does it only matter when the other side does it?

You should answer your own questions. You voted for Trump, correct?

Of course it matters. I don’t ignore it.  But, Trump is no worse a human being than Hillary.


Ooof... I disliked both and voted third party... but think it’s pretty evident from their pasts and from the campaigns, that the level of dishonesty, shadiness and general ickiness is far greater for Trump. Can’t think of final canidate that had more mistrust going for him more than Trump.

It’s almost laughable that someone should suggest we be more diligent about voting for politicians who are not deceitful, and that someone voted for Trump.

Re: Is Elizabeth Warren an American Indian?
« Reply #50 on: October 16, 2018, 05:24:32 PM »

Online Roy H.

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And I couldn't care less what Warren identified herself as. Like I said, I judge her on her politics and the work she has done as a representative of Massachusetts.

Should all politicians be held to that standard? “I don’t care what lies they’ve told, I’m just judging them on their policies and results”?

Because if so, Trump looks a lot more palatable.
Doesn't Trump get a free pass from Republicans even though he has been divorced several times, has more than 10 women claiming sexual assault against him and went into bankruptcy like 6 times? The man claims to be the best business man ever who only started with a small loan from his dad(not true). And he claims to love the Bible and gets Communion as often as possible. But conservative Republicans and Evangelical Christian Republicans just don't care about those things.

Politicians lie. It's what they do. Warren was told she was part Native American by her family and for many years identified with that ancestry. If that's a lie, so be it. A ton of politicians get free rides for lies a lot more serious than that.

Yes, many Republican voters are huge hypocrites, as are Democrat voters.

But, we’re not talking about our fellow partisans. It’s about our own standards. So, I’m adking what your general standards are regarding politicians lying, plagiarizing and being hypocritical. Does that stuff matter? Does it only matter when the other side does it?

You should answer your own questions. You voted for Trump, correct?

Of course it matters. I don’t ignore it.  But, Trump is no worse a human being than Hillary.


Ooof... I disliked both and voted third party... but think it’s pretty evident from their pasts and from the campaigns, that the level of dishonesty, shadiness and general ickiness is far greater for Trump. Can’t think of final canidate that had more mistrust going for him more than Trump.

It’s almost laughable that someone should suggest we be more diligent about voting for politicians who are not deceitful, and that someone voted for Trump.

I had two choices. Both sucked. I picked the one who would pick judges and Justices that would uphold the Supreme Court. Mission accomplished.

Both are disgusting human beings, though. And, if people were more diligent about voting for those who aren’t deceitful, Trump and Hillary wouldn’t have made it out of the primaries.


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Re: Is Elizabeth Warren an American Indian?
« Reply #51 on: October 16, 2018, 05:25:16 PM »

Offline mobilija

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Hard to find a politician that doesn’t lie and isn’t disingenuous

While true, I think we’d all be better if we called people of both parties on this crap. Instead, we tend to explain things away when it’s in our own party’s favor, and condemn it when the other “side” does it.

Not so long ago, being of poor moral character seemed to be an impediment to the Presidency. Bill Clinton “didn’t inhale”. Gary Hart’s career was over because he had an affair. Granted, morality was always pretty selective (Ted Kennedy), but it existed.

Now it’s just “they all lie, they all cheat, so I don’t care”. That just leads us further down our descent as a society.  Nobody cares about values, and we’re willing to accept blatant hypocrisy so long as somebody is on our side of the aisle  (https://www.aol.com/article/news/2018/10/15/major-womens-groups-silent-on-hillary-clintons-abuse-of-power-comments/23561908/).  Maybe it’s time to remember that politicians work for us.

Seems like you’re talking out of both sides of your mouth. “Be fair and impartial when guaging politician dishonesty!” But all your examples of dishonest politicians are from the left.....

Well, except for Trump. But, he started as a Democrat I guess.

Don’t see where you mention Trump...

Re: Is Elizabeth Warren an American Indian?
« Reply #52 on: October 16, 2018, 05:28:55 PM »

Online Roy H.

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Hard to find a politician that doesn’t lie and isn’t disingenuous

While true, I think we’d all be better if we called people of both parties on this crap. Instead, we tend to explain things away when it’s in our own party’s favor, and condemn it when the other “side” does it.

Not so long ago, being of poor moral character seemed to be an impediment to the Presidency. Bill Clinton “didn’t inhale”. Gary Hart’s career was over because he had an affair. Granted, morality was always pretty selective (Ted Kennedy), but it existed.

Now it’s just “they all lie, they all cheat, so I don’t care”. That just leads us further down our descent as a society.  Nobody cares about values, and we’re willing to accept blatant hypocrisy so long as somebody is on our side of the aisle  (https://www.aol.com/article/news/2018/10/15/major-womens-groups-silent-on-hillary-clintons-abuse-of-power-comments/23561908/).  Maybe it’s time to remember that politicians work for us.

Seems like you’re talking out of both sides of your mouth. “Be fair and impartial when guaging politician dishonesty!” But all your examples of dishonest politicians are from the left.....

Well, except for Trump. But, he started as a Democrat I guess.

Don’t see where you mention Trump...

He’s been mentioned by me multiple times in this thread, including in posts you’ve quoted. Quit trying to play “gotcha” and pay attention, please.


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Re: Is Elizabeth Warren an American Indian?
« Reply #53 on: October 16, 2018, 05:43:20 PM »

Offline mmmmm

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I honestly find it hard to fathom that she proudly posted her DNA results like it was a slam dunk.  Most Europeans have more Native American DNA, and she is well below that average. 
What are you talking about?  Please explain.  References please?
Quote
In fact, she may have South American more so than American Indian.  A silver, not enough to qualify for native American benefits in any tribe.
This statement is also just odd beyond odd.  The analysis was to determine what portion of her DNA came from the Native American gene pool.  This does not distinguish between North and South American peoples.  Because they all came from the same original eastern Asian group that migrated first to North America (by way of Alaska) and then on to South America, in three great migrations.

Do people really stop and think about these sorts of statements?   Yours would suggest, what?  That she had some ancestor a 150 years or so ago, that migrated all the way up from South America to the Oklahoma Territories?  Are you somehow finding that _more_ likely than that she simply had some great-great-grandparent who was significantly of more local indigenous background?

And she never, ever claimed any tribal affiliation.   Why are you even bringing that up?
Quote

Whether your from the left or right, she wrongly claimed that she was Native American to advance her career and land that job at Harvard.   

Or more likely, she simply checked off the boxes for whatever ethnicities she was told by her family in her youth, with no way of knowing whether they were true or not.  Like millions of other people have done and continue to do.

NBA Officiating - Corrupt?  Incompetent?  Which is worse?  Does it matter?  It sucks.

Re: Is Elizabeth Warren an American Indian?
« Reply #54 on: October 16, 2018, 05:55:27 PM »

Online Roy H.

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And she never, ever claimed any tribal affiliation.

Except labeling herself Cherokee.





Which she plagiarized:



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Re: Is Elizabeth Warren an American Indian?
« Reply #55 on: October 16, 2018, 06:00:03 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

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I'm not sure what Warren thought she stood to gain here, but it seems all she has done is further anger Native Americans, and probably killed what little chance she had of making a serious run for President in 2020.  Warren truly is out of touch and living a bubble of delusion.

Quote
“It makes a mockery out of DNA tests and its legitimate uses while also dishonoring legitimate tribal governments and their citizens, whose ancestors are well documented and whose heritage is proven,” Cherokee Nation Secretary of State Chuck Hoskin Jr. said in a statement. “Senator Warren is undermining tribal interests with her continued claims of tribal heritage.”

Quote
Kim TallBear, a researcher at the University of Alberta, called Warren’s claims “yet another strike” against “tribal sovereignty.”

That erosion, TallBear said Monday on Twitter, has been long-standing.

“Non-Indigenous Americans will never stop making claims to all things indigenous: bones, blood, land, waters, and identities. The U.S. continues to appropriate every last thing.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2018/10/16/elizabeth-warren-angers-prominent-native-americans-with-politically-fraught-dna-test/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.c4edea7152f7

Quote
"It adds fuel to that misconception that I can go out, get a DNA test and then, boom, that's all I really need," said Brandon Scott, a Cherokee Nation citizen and the executive editor of tribe's newspaper, the Cherokee Phoenix. "But the facts of the matter are you need a lot more than that."

Quote
"Cultural appropriation is the dumbest thing that anybody can do, but especially a Democrat."

Said Branham: "It's not a costume. You can't put on and take off being native whenever you feel like it or whenever it benefits you. It's really actively being a part of that culture."

https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2018/10/16/us/ap-us-elizabeth-warren-heritage-oklahoma-tribes.html


Re: Is Elizabeth Warren an American Indian?
« Reply #56 on: October 16, 2018, 06:18:16 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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I'm 1/32 Martian too.

Re: Is Elizabeth Warren an American Indian?
« Reply #57 on: October 16, 2018, 06:52:53 PM »

Offline mobilija

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Hard to find a politician that doesn’t lie and isn’t disingenuous

While true, I think we’d all be better if we called people of both parties on this crap. Instead, we tend to explain things away when it’s in our own party’s favor, and condemn it when the other “side” does it.

Not so long ago, being of poor moral character seemed to be an impediment to the Presidency. Bill Clinton “didn’t inhale”. Gary Hart’s career was over because he had an affair. Granted, morality was always pretty selective (Ted Kennedy), but it existed.

Now it’s just “they all lie, they all cheat, so I don’t care”. That just leads us further down our descent as a society.  Nobody cares about values, and we’re willing to accept blatant hypocrisy so long as somebody is on our side of the aisle  (https://www.aol.com/article/news/2018/10/15/major-womens-groups-silent-on-hillary-clintons-abuse-of-power-comments/23561908/).  Maybe it’s time to remember that politicians work for us.

Seems like you’re talking out of both sides of your mouth. “Be fair and impartial when guaging politician dishonesty!” But all your examples of dishonest politicians are from the left.....

Well, except for Trump. But, he started as a Democrat I guess.

Don’t see where you mention Trump...

He’s been mentioned by me multiple times in this thread, including in posts you’ve quoted. Quit trying to play “gotcha” and pay attention, please.

Hahaha
Fair enough but you’re a pretty fun poster to play “gotcha” with! Smart, educated and....manipulative. Besides, I kinda feel like I’m winning  ;)

My point: It is disengenous of you to ask for us to look at all politicians, across party lines, and not accept the lying when that is not what you are doing or have done. You’ve cited the evils that liberal politicians have done and voted for Trump.

On last “gotcha” for you.... if Sanders had beaten Clinton, would you have still voted for Trump?

Re: Is Elizabeth Warren an American Indian?
« Reply #58 on: October 16, 2018, 07:11:47 PM »

Online Roy H.

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On last “gotcha” for you.... if Sanders had beaten Clinton, would you have still voted for Trump?

I probably would have stayed home. I was very conflicted about voting for Trump. Ultimately, I felt compelled to vote against Hillary as much as for Trump.

Without that strong motivator, I probably would have abstained.


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Re: Is Elizabeth Warren an American Indian?
« Reply #59 on: October 16, 2018, 07:49:25 PM »

Offline Neurotic Guy

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Bottom line for me is that if Warren's latest "revelation" reduces her chances to garner the Dem nomination in 2020, all the better.  I'd like the D nominee to have a chance to beat Trump in 2020.   Warren, Native American or not, has no chance to beat Trump. 

 

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