Jabari Bird arrested

[Donoghus]

It's fantastic that this has now turned into victim shaming & conspiracy theories all because of the laundry the kid wears.   

[Roy H.]

It blows my mind how 'some' people here think they have all the answers to what's going on in this scenario based on what's being stated in the media.  Unless you're the judge or a part of the jury when this case goes to court, you have zero clue as to what really happened here, despite what you think you know because of...

If he is guilty it will be determined in the court of law and if prison is his outcome then that's something he'll have to live with, but to convict and say someone belongs in prison without knowing all the facts is juvenile and irresponsible to say the least.

This is why we have a court of law.

Hopefully the woman recovers fully from her injuries, both physically and mentally.

What’s the set of facts that makes torturing somebody for four hours acceptable? Something that shouldn’t be strongly condemned?

It could've been fabricated. I don't think it is, but we can't 100% be sure unless we were there. That is why we wait until the case is resolve to condemn anyone.

I’m 100% sure.

Were you there?

No, I just don’t believe in magical thinking.

So you are not there, yet you are 100% sure, without a sliver of doubt, that it could be fabricated? For all we know, something else happened and the facts got twisted to make it look different. No, magical thinking is thinking you know what happened for sure. Shame on you, lost all respect.

You think it’s possible the woman gave herself extensive bruising, cuts, internal bleeding? Or that somebody else did it to her?

What is Jabari apologizing for, then? Why is he sending texts threatening to kill himself?

I’m 100% certain that Jabari injured the victim severely. There is no reasonable doubt about who inflicted the injuries.

I have no doubt he caused her injuries, but I have no idea why, who instigated and was the aggressor, etc.  Always better to just let the facts come out before jumping to conclusions.

You see a plausible scenario where the victim was the aggressor? And is there any “instigation” that would justify these injuries?

I’ll concede that we don’t know why this happened, although the victim’s statement that Jabari confronted her about “trust issues” makes sense, particularly in light of the “come back or I’ll kill myself” behavior.

I have no idea what happened.  Maybe she was the one that went crazy, hitting him etc., and in his attempts to restrain her, he caused the injuries.  I wasn't there, I have no idea what happened.  The most likely scenario is he abused her, but that doesn't mean he did.

She’s got cuts, extensive bruising, an injured eye, and internal bleeding, observed by both Police and a doctor.  He sent a text begging her to come back or he’d kill himself.

The “she attacked him” scenario makes no sense.

Maybe she used his phone to text herself in order to fake the situation

Maybe it was a clone of Jabari. The real Bird is on an alien spacecraft, where he’s no doubt being probed presently.  And maybe the victim turned into a werewolf, attacking Clone Jabari until he cast a spell attempting to return her to her human form. The spell worked, but not without side effects, as the former she-wolf received cuts, bruising and internal bleeding.

Can anybody say with absolute certainty that that didn’t happen?

People fake injuries in form of self hurting for money all the time
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ac7LzckbW0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFoes7rsZBA
or from mental illness (Munchausen Syndrome)

I see.

So the victim faked her own injuries, stole Jabari’s phone and sent suicidal texts, got him arrested and placed under “observation” for almost six days...

And for all of that, Jabari apologizes?

[playdream]

It blows my mind how 'some' people here think they have all the answers to what's going on in this scenario based on what's being stated in the media.  Unless you're the judge or a part of the jury when this case goes to court, you have zero clue as to what really happened here, despite what you think you know because of...

If he is guilty it will be determined in the court of law and if prison is his outcome then that's something he'll have to live with, but to convict and say someone belongs in prison without knowing all the facts is juvenile and irresponsible to say the least.

This is why we have a court of law.

Hopefully the woman recovers fully from her injuries, both physically and mentally.

What’s the set of facts that makes torturing somebody for four hours acceptable? Something that shouldn’t be strongly condemned?

It could've been fabricated. I don't think it is, but we can't 100% be sure unless we were there. That is why we wait until the case is resolve to condemn anyone.

I’m 100% sure.

Were you there?

No, I just don’t believe in magical thinking.

So you are not there, yet you are 100% sure, without a sliver of doubt, that it could be fabricated? For all we know, something else happened and the facts got twisted to make it look different. No, magical thinking is thinking you know what happened for sure. Shame on you, lost all respect.

You think it’s possible the woman gave herself extensive bruising, cuts, internal bleeding? Or that somebody else did it to her?

What is Jabari apologizing for, then? Why is he sending texts threatening to kill himself?

I’m 100% certain that Jabari injured the victim severely. There is no reasonable doubt about who inflicted the injuries.

I have no doubt he caused her injuries, but I have no idea why, who instigated and was the aggressor, etc.  Always better to just let the facts come out before jumping to conclusions.

You see a plausible scenario where the victim was the aggressor? And is there any “instigation” that would justify these injuries?

I’ll concede that we don’t know why this happened, although the victim’s statement that Jabari confronted her about “trust issues” makes sense, particularly in light of the “come back or I’ll kill myself” behavior.

I have no idea what happened.  Maybe she was the one that went crazy, hitting him etc., and in his attempts to restrain her, he caused the injuries.  I wasn't there, I have no idea what happened.  The most likely scenario is he abused her, but that doesn't mean he did.

She’s got cuts, extensive bruising, an injured eye, and internal bleeding, observed by both Police and a doctor.  He sent a text begging her to come back or he’d kill himself.

The “she attacked him” scenario makes no sense.

Maybe she used his phone to text herself in order to fake the situation

Maybe it was a clone of Jabari. The real Bird is on an alien spacecraft, where he’s no doubt being probed presently.  And maybe the victim turned into a werewolf, attacking Clone Jabari until he cast a spell attempting to return her to her human form. The spell worked, but not without side effects, as the former she-wolf received cuts, bruising and internal bleeding.

Can anybody say with absolute certainty that that didn’t happen?

People fake injuries in form of self hurting for money all the time
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ac7LzckbW0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFoes7rsZBA
or from mental illness (Munchausen Syndrome)

I see.

So the victim faked her own injuries, stole Jabari’s phone and sent suicidal texts, got him arrested and placed under “observation” for almost six days...

And for all of that, Jabari apologizes?

He didn't apologize to her from what i heard?

[Roy H.]

It blows my mind how 'some' people here think they have all the answers to what's going on in this scenario based on what's being stated in the media.  Unless you're the judge or a part of the jury when this case goes to court, you have zero clue as to what really happened here, despite what you think you know because of...

If he is guilty it will be determined in the court of law and if prison is his outcome then that's something he'll have to live with, but to convict and say someone belongs in prison without knowing all the facts is juvenile and irresponsible to say the least.

This is why we have a court of law.

Hopefully the woman recovers fully from her injuries, both physically and mentally.

What’s the set of facts that makes torturing somebody for four hours acceptable? Something that shouldn’t be strongly condemned?

It could've been fabricated. I don't think it is, but we can't 100% be sure unless we were there. That is why we wait until the case is resolve to condemn anyone.

I’m 100% sure.

Were you there?

No, I just don’t believe in magical thinking.

So you are not there, yet you are 100% sure, without a sliver of doubt, that it could be fabricated? For all we know, something else happened and the facts got twisted to make it look different. No, magical thinking is thinking you know what happened for sure. Shame on you, lost all respect.

You think it’s possible the woman gave herself extensive bruising, cuts, internal bleeding? Or that somebody else did it to her?

What is Jabari apologizing for, then? Why is he sending texts threatening to kill himself?

I’m 100% certain that Jabari injured the victim severely. There is no reasonable doubt about who inflicted the injuries.

I have no doubt he caused her injuries, but I have no idea why, who instigated and was the aggressor, etc.  Always better to just let the facts come out before jumping to conclusions.

You see a plausible scenario where the victim was the aggressor? And is there any “instigation” that would justify these injuries?

I’ll concede that we don’t know why this happened, although the victim’s statement that Jabari confronted her about “trust issues” makes sense, particularly in light of the “come back or I’ll kill myself” behavior.

I have no idea what happened.  Maybe she was the one that went crazy, hitting him etc., and in his attempts to restrain her, he caused the injuries.  I wasn't there, I have no idea what happened.  The most likely scenario is he abused her, but that doesn't mean he did.

She’s got cuts, extensive bruising, an injured eye, and internal bleeding, observed by both Police and a doctor.  He sent a text begging her to come back or he’d kill himself.

The “she attacked him” scenario makes no sense.

Maybe she used his phone to text herself in order to fake the situation

Maybe it was a clone of Jabari. The real Bird is on an alien spacecraft, where he’s no doubt being probed presently.  And maybe the victim turned into a werewolf, attacking Clone Jabari until he cast a spell attempting to return her to her human form. The spell worked, but not without side effects, as the former she-wolf received cuts, bruising and internal bleeding.

Can anybody say with absolute certainty that that didn’t happen?

People fake injuries in form of self hurting for money all the time
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ac7LzckbW0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFoes7rsZBA
or from mental illness (Munchausen Syndrome)

I see.

So the victim faked her own injuries, stole Jabari’s phone and sent suicidal texts, got him arrested and placed under “observation” for almost six days...

And for all of that, Jabari apologizes?

He didn't apologize to her from what i heard?

He apologized to his loved ones and the team. It seems like an odd public apology if he’s the victim.

[playdream]

It blows my mind how 'some' people here think they have all the answers to what's going on in this scenario based on what's being stated in the media.  Unless you're the judge or a part of the jury when this case goes to court, you have zero clue as to what really happened here, despite what you think you know because of...

If he is guilty it will be determined in the court of law and if prison is his outcome then that's something he'll have to live with, but to convict and say someone belongs in prison without knowing all the facts is juvenile and irresponsible to say the least.

This is why we have a court of law.

Hopefully the woman recovers fully from her injuries, both physically and mentally.

What’s the set of facts that makes torturing somebody for four hours acceptable? Something that shouldn’t be strongly condemned?

It could've been fabricated. I don't think it is, but we can't 100% be sure unless we were there. That is why we wait until the case is resolve to condemn anyone.

I’m 100% sure.

Were you there?

No, I just don’t believe in magical thinking.

So you are not there, yet you are 100% sure, without a sliver of doubt, that it could be fabricated? For all we know, something else happened and the facts got twisted to make it look different. No, magical thinking is thinking you know what happened for sure. Shame on you, lost all respect.

You think it’s possible the woman gave herself extensive bruising, cuts, internal bleeding? Or that somebody else did it to her?

What is Jabari apologizing for, then? Why is he sending texts threatening to kill himself?

I’m 100% certain that Jabari injured the victim severely. There is no reasonable doubt about who inflicted the injuries.

I have no doubt he caused her injuries, but I have no idea why, who instigated and was the aggressor, etc.  Always better to just let the facts come out before jumping to conclusions.

You see a plausible scenario where the victim was the aggressor? And is there any “instigation” that would justify these injuries?

I’ll concede that we don’t know why this happened, although the victim’s statement that Jabari confronted her about “trust issues” makes sense, particularly in light of the “come back or I’ll kill myself” behavior.

I have no idea what happened.  Maybe she was the one that went crazy, hitting him etc., and in his attempts to restrain her, he caused the injuries.  I wasn't there, I have no idea what happened.  The most likely scenario is he abused her, but that doesn't mean he did.

She’s got cuts, extensive bruising, an injured eye, and internal bleeding, observed by both Police and a doctor.  He sent a text begging her to come back or he’d kill himself.

The “she attacked him” scenario makes no sense.

Maybe she used his phone to text herself in order to fake the situation

Maybe it was a clone of Jabari. The real Bird is on an alien spacecraft, where he’s no doubt being probed presently.  And maybe the victim turned into a werewolf, attacking Clone Jabari until he cast a spell attempting to return her to her human form. The spell worked, but not without side effects, as the former she-wolf received cuts, bruising and internal bleeding.

Can anybody say with absolute certainty that that didn’t happen?

People fake injuries in form of self hurting for money all the time
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ac7LzckbW0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFoes7rsZBA
or from mental illness (Munchausen Syndrome)

I see.

So the victim faked her own injuries, stole Jabari’s phone and sent suicidal texts, got him arrested and placed under “observation” for almost six days...

And for all of that, Jabari apologizes?

He didn't apologize to her from what i heard?

He apologized to his loved ones and the team. It seems like an odd public apology if he’s the victim.

"
I'm talking some time away from the team as I deal with my legal and medical issues. I apologise to my family, the Celtics organization, my teammates, the fans and the NBA for the unnecessary distraction that I have caused the information that had been released does not tell the full story. I do not condone violence against women. I am hopeful that in due time and process, I will be able to regain everyone's trust.
"

[Roy H.]

It blows my mind how 'some' people here think they have all the answers to what's going on in this scenario based on what's being stated in the media.  Unless you're the judge or a part of the jury when this case goes to court, you have zero clue as to what really happened here, despite what you think you know because of...

If he is guilty it will be determined in the court of law and if prison is his outcome then that's something he'll have to live with, but to convict and say someone belongs in prison without knowing all the facts is juvenile and irresponsible to say the least.

This is why we have a court of law.

Hopefully the woman recovers fully from her injuries, both physically and mentally.

What’s the set of facts that makes torturing somebody for four hours acceptable? Something that shouldn’t be strongly condemned?

It could've been fabricated. I don't think it is, but we can't 100% be sure unless we were there. That is why we wait until the case is resolve to condemn anyone.

I’m 100% sure.

Were you there?

No, I just don’t believe in magical thinking.

So you are not there, yet you are 100% sure, without a sliver of doubt, that it could be fabricated? For all we know, something else happened and the facts got twisted to make it look different. No, magical thinking is thinking you know what happened for sure. Shame on you, lost all respect.

You think it’s possible the woman gave herself extensive bruising, cuts, internal bleeding? Or that somebody else did it to her?

What is Jabari apologizing for, then? Why is he sending texts threatening to kill himself?

I’m 100% certain that Jabari injured the victim severely. There is no reasonable doubt about who inflicted the injuries.

I have no doubt he caused her injuries, but I have no idea why, who instigated and was the aggressor, etc.  Always better to just let the facts come out before jumping to conclusions.

You see a plausible scenario where the victim was the aggressor? And is there any “instigation” that would justify these injuries?

I’ll concede that we don’t know why this happened, although the victim’s statement that Jabari confronted her about “trust issues” makes sense, particularly in light of the “come back or I’ll kill myself” behavior.

I have no idea what happened.  Maybe she was the one that went crazy, hitting him etc., and in his attempts to restrain her, he caused the injuries.  I wasn't there, I have no idea what happened.  The most likely scenario is he abused her, but that doesn't mean he did.

She’s got cuts, extensive bruising, an injured eye, and internal bleeding, observed by both Police and a doctor.  He sent a text begging her to come back or he’d kill himself.

The “she attacked him” scenario makes no sense.

Maybe she used his phone to text herself in order to fake the situation

Maybe it was a clone of Jabari. The real Bird is on an alien spacecraft, where he’s no doubt being probed presently.  And maybe the victim turned into a werewolf, attacking Clone Jabari until he cast a spell attempting to return her to her human form. The spell worked, but not without side effects, as the former she-wolf received cuts, bruising and internal bleeding.

Can anybody say with absolute certainty that that didn’t happen?

People fake injuries in form of self hurting for money all the time
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ac7LzckbW0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFoes7rsZBA
or from mental illness (Munchausen Syndrome)

I see.

So the victim faked her own injuries, stole Jabari’s phone and sent suicidal texts, got him arrested and placed under “observation” for almost six days...

And for all of that, Jabari apologizes?

He didn't apologize to her from what i heard?

He apologized to his loved ones and the team. It seems like an odd public apology if he’s the victim.

"
I'm talking some time away from the team as I deal with my legal and medical issues. I apologise to my family, the Celtics organization, my teammates, the fans and the NBA for the unnecessary distraction that I have caused the information that had been released does not tell the full story. I do not condone violence against women. I am hopeful that in due time and process, I will be able to regain everyone's trust.
"

That he caused.

He doesn’t even claim the allegations are false. Odd, after she made the entire thing up.

[Moranis]

It blows my mind how 'some' people here think they have all the answers to what's going on in this scenario based on what's being stated in the media.  Unless you're the judge or a part of the jury when this case goes to court, you have zero clue as to what really happened here, despite what you think you know because of...

If he is guilty it will be determined in the court of law and if prison is his outcome then that's something he'll have to live with, but to convict and say someone belongs in prison without knowing all the facts is juvenile and irresponsible to say the least.

This is why we have a court of law.

Hopefully the woman recovers fully from her injuries, both physically and mentally.

What’s the set of facts that makes torturing somebody for four hours acceptable? Something that shouldn’t be strongly condemned?

It could've been fabricated. I don't think it is, but we can't 100% be sure unless we were there. That is why we wait until the case is resolve to condemn anyone.

I’m 100% sure.

Were you there?

No, I just don’t believe in magical thinking.

So you are not there, yet you are 100% sure, without a sliver of doubt, that it could be fabricated? For all we know, something else happened and the facts got twisted to make it look different. No, magical thinking is thinking you know what happened for sure. Shame on you, lost all respect.

You think it’s possible the woman gave herself extensive bruising, cuts, internal bleeding? Or that somebody else did it to her?

What is Jabari apologizing for, then? Why is he sending texts threatening to kill himself?

I’m 100% certain that Jabari injured the victim severely. There is no reasonable doubt about who inflicted the injuries.

I have no doubt he caused her injuries, but I have no idea why, who instigated and was the aggressor, etc.  Always better to just let the facts come out before jumping to conclusions.

You see a plausible scenario where the victim was the aggressor? And is there any “instigation” that would justify these injuries?

I’ll concede that we don’t know why this happened, although the victim’s statement that Jabari confronted her about “trust issues” makes sense, particularly in light of the “come back or I’ll kill myself” behavior.

I have no idea what happened.  Maybe she was the one that went crazy, hitting him etc., and in his attempts to restrain her, he caused the injuries.  I wasn't there, I have no idea what happened.  The most likely scenario is he abused her, but that doesn't mean he did.

She’s got cuts, extensive bruising, an injured eye, and internal bleeding, observed by both Police and a doctor.  He sent a text begging her to come back or he’d kill himself.

The “she attacked him” scenario makes no sense.

Maybe she used his phone to text herself in order to fake the situation

Maybe it was a clone of Jabari. The real Bird is on an alien spacecraft, where he’s no doubt being probed presently.  And maybe the victim turned into a werewolf, attacking Clone Jabari until he cast a spell attempting to return her to her human form. The spell worked, but not without side effects, as the former she-wolf received cuts, bruising and internal bleeding.

Can anybody say with absolute certainty that that didn’t happen?

People fake injuries in form of self hurting for money all the time
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ac7LzckbW0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFoes7rsZBA
or from mental illness (Munchausen Syndrome)

I see.

So the victim faked her own injuries, stole Jabari’s phone and sent suicidal texts, got him arrested and placed under “observation” for almost six days...

And for all of that, Jabari apologizes?

He didn't apologize to her from what i heard?

He apologized to his loved ones and the team. It seems like an odd public apology if he’s the victim.

"
I'm talking some time away from the team as I deal with my legal and medical issues. I apologise to my family, the Celtics organization, my teammates, the fans and the NBA for the unnecessary distraction that I have caused the information that had been released does not tell the full story. I do not condone violence against women. I am hopeful that in due time and process, I will be able to regain everyone's trust.
"

That he caused.

He doesn’t even claim the allegations are false. Odd, after she made the entire thing up.

You are definitely reading that statement how you want it to be read and not how it actually reads.

[KG Living Legend]

It blows my mind how 'some' people here think they have all the answers to what's going on in this scenario based on what's being stated in the media.  Unless you're the judge or a part of the jury when this case goes to court, you have zero clue as to what really happened here, despite what you think you know because of...

If he is guilty it will be determined in the court of law and if prison is his outcome then that's something he'll have to live with, but to convict and say someone belongs in prison without knowing all the facts is juvenile and irresponsible to say the least.

This is why we have a court of law.

Hopefully the woman recovers fully from her injuries, both physically and mentally.

What’s the set of facts that makes torturing somebody for four hours acceptable? Something that shouldn’t be strongly condemned?

It could've been fabricated. I don't think it is, but we can't 100% be sure unless we were there. That is why we wait until the case is resolve to condemn anyone.

I’m 100% sure.

Were you there?

No, I just don’t believe in magical thinking.

So you are not there, yet you are 100% sure, without a sliver of doubt, that it could be fabricated? For all we know, something else happened and the facts got twisted to make it look different. No, magical thinking is thinking you know what happened for sure. Shame on you, lost all respect.

You think it’s possible the woman gave herself extensive bruising, cuts, internal bleeding? Or that somebody else did it to her?

What is Jabari apologizing for, then? Why is he sending texts threatening to kill himself?

I’m 100% certain that Jabari injured the victim severely. There is no reasonable doubt about who inflicted the injuries.

I have no doubt he caused her injuries, but I have no idea why, who instigated and was the aggressor, etc.  Always better to just let the facts come out before jumping to conclusions.

You see a plausible scenario where the victim was the aggressor? And is there any “instigation” that would justify these injuries?

I’ll concede that we don’t know why this happened, although the victim’s statement that Jabari confronted her about “trust issues” makes sense, particularly in light of the “come back or I’ll kill myself” behavior.

I have no idea what happened.  Maybe she was the one that went crazy, hitting him etc., and in his attempts to restrain her, he caused the injuries.  I wasn't there, I have no idea what happened.  The most likely scenario is he abused her, but that doesn't mean he did.

She’s got cuts, extensive bruising, an injured eye, and internal bleeding, observed by both Police and a doctor.  He sent a text begging her to come back or he’d kill himself.

The “she attacked him” scenario makes no sense.

Maybe she used his phone to text herself in order to fake the situation

Maybe it was a clone of Jabari. The real Bird is on an alien spacecraft, where he’s no doubt being probed presently.  And maybe the victim turned into a werewolf, attacking Clone Jabari until he cast a spell attempting to return her to her human form. The spell worked, but not without side effects, as the former she-wolf received cuts, bruising and internal bleeding.

Can anybody say with absolute certainty that that didn’t happen?

 They actually was how it happened! I thought I was the only one with that story! I'm. Going to write the full article and post on Bleacher Report now that there is multiple Witnesses!

[bogg]

What’s the set of facts that makes torturing somebody for four hours acceptable? Something that shouldn’t be strongly condemned?

Conspiracy theorists in this thread aside, because it certainly sounds like something very bad happened, I think there's a pretty big difference between wanting to understand why something happened and thinking it's acceptable. Writing it off as clearly the person is inherently violent and they did this because they figured they could and it would be fun to do isn't helpful.

[fairweatherfan]

I mean, there are a lot of plausible scenarios where some aspects of what we've heard so far turn out to be exaggerated, misleading or false. There are virtually no plausible scenarios where it turns out Bird did nothing wrong.

[bogg]

I mean, there are a lot of plausible scenarios where some aspects of what we've heard so far turn out to be exaggerated, misleading or false. There are virtually no plausible scenarios where it turns out Bird did nothing wrong.

As if to reiterate my point. Once again - wanting to know what caused someone to behave in a certain way is not in itself an endorsement (or acceptance) of that behavior.

[fairweatherfan]

I mean, there are a lot of plausible scenarios where some aspects of what we've heard so far turn out to be exaggerated, misleading or false. There are virtually no plausible scenarios where it turns out Bird did nothing wrong.

As if to reiterate my point. Once again - wanting to know what caused someone to behave in a certain way is not in itself an endorsement (or acceptance) of that behavior.

Where did you read that I disagreed with that? What I said wasn't a response to your post and has nothing to do with what you're arguing in it.

I agree for what it's worth, but that's also not really an accurate characterization of how some posters have been approaching this.

[bogg]

I mean, there are a lot of plausible scenarios where some aspects of what we've heard so far turn out to be exaggerated, misleading or false. There are virtually no plausible scenarios where it turns out Bird did nothing wrong.

As if to reiterate my point. Once again - wanting to know what caused someone to behave in a certain way is not in itself an endorsement (or acceptance) of that behavior.

Where did you read that I disagreed with that? What I said wasn't a response to your post and has nothing to do with what you're arguing in it.

I agree for what it's worth, but that's also not really an accurate characterization of how some posters have been approaching this.

Ah, fair enough. Because your post was right after mine with no other posts quoted I assumed it was a response. Agreed that there have been a wide range of responses to this, some less reasonable than others. I'm not in the "women are evil and Jabari's maybe the real victim" camp.

[KG Living Legend]

 This guy is going down hard. Is there anyone disputing he's not at this point?

[fairweatherfan]

I mean, there are a lot of plausible scenarios where some aspects of what we've heard so far turn out to be exaggerated, misleading or false. There are virtually no plausible scenarios where it turns out Bird did nothing wrong.

As if to reiterate my point. Once again - wanting to know what caused someone to behave in a certain way is not in itself an endorsement (or acceptance) of that behavior.

Where did you read that I disagreed with that? What I said wasn't a response to your post and has nothing to do with what you're arguing in it.

I agree for what it's worth, but that's also not really an accurate characterization of how some posters have been approaching this.

Ah, fair enough. Because your post was right after mine with no other posts quoted I assumed it was a response. Agreed that there have been a wide range of responses to this, some less reasonable than others. I'm not in the "women are evil and Jabari's maybe the real victim" camp.

Nah I was mostly reading the conspiracy type debates above and on the last couple pages (as well as early on), didn't even see yours to be honest. Just didn't want to jump into a specific one and quote a giant nested argument. I'd like to know what caused it too, but that's because I'm just a trivial sliver below 100% certain that the basic allegations are true.