Author Topic: Paul Manafort bank and tax fraud trial  (Read 11082 times)

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Re: Paul Manafort bank and tax fraud trial
« Reply #150 on: November 28, 2018, 10:00:17 AM »

Online heyvik

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I think Mueller is nailing who he can, but remember he said he could not indict a sitting president


Quote
Special counsel Robert S. Mueller IIIís team told President Trumpís lawyers recently that prosecutors do not believe they can charge a sitting president with a crime under Justice Department guidelines, Trump lawyer Rudolph W. Giuliani said Wednesday.

The special counselís conclusion signals that it would be left to Congress to address any finding of wrongdoing by Trump in the investigation. Muellerís team is scrutinizing Russian interference in the 2016 election, whether the Russians coordinated with any Trump associates and whether the president has sought to thwart the probe.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/muellers-team-told-trumps-lawyers-the-special-counsel-cannot-indict-a-sitting-president/2018/05/16/cf4d5700-5961-11e8-858f-12becb4d6067_story.html?noredirect=on

So this means associates is all we get and it will be up to Congress to impeach if he finds something, which may or may not be likely given the GOP control the Senate.  In other words, don't get your hopes up.

Some of this may come back to bite Hillary as well, folks.

https://www.newsweek.com/tony-podesta-robert-mueller-trump-russia-690513

I think that both sides are going to get nailed, in this investigation as both were looking for Russian dirt and manipulated by the Russians.
I hope it does get back to Hillary and any one who is remotely involved. I'm pretty sure that POTUS will be the main focus though.

Re: Paul Manafort bank and tax fraud trial
« Reply #151 on: November 28, 2018, 10:19:27 AM »

Offline FatKidsDad

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I think Mueller is nailing who he can, but remember he said he could not indict a sitting president


Quote
Special counsel Robert S. Mueller IIIís team told President Trumpís lawyers recently that prosecutors do not believe they can charge a sitting president with a crime under Justice Department guidelines, Trump lawyer Rudolph W. Giuliani said Wednesday.

The special counselís conclusion signals that it would be left to Congress to address any finding of wrongdoing by Trump in the investigation. Muellerís team is scrutinizing Russian interference in the 2016 election, whether the Russians coordinated with any Trump associates and whether the president has sought to thwart the probe.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/muellers-team-told-trumps-lawyers-the-special-counsel-cannot-indict-a-sitting-president/2018/05/16/cf4d5700-5961-11e8-858f-12becb4d6067_story.html?noredirect=on

So this means associates is all we get and it will be up to Congress to impeach if he finds something, which may or may not be likely given the GOP control the Senate.  In other words, don't get your hopes up.

Some of this may come back to bite Hillary as well, folks.

https://www.newsweek.com/tony-podesta-robert-mueller-trump-russia-690513

I think that both sides are going to get nailed, in this investigation as both were looking for Russian dirt and manipulated by the Russians.

Does anyone else think that, if this gets ugly enough, Pence will start looking good to enough R's to swing the vote? Especially those who don't truly support Trump. Many are afraid of being primaried in 2020, but that fear fades with Pence on top and Trump on the outs.
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Re: Paul Manafort bank and tax fraud trial
« Reply #152 on: January 08, 2019, 03:00:02 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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Lol Manafort's lawyers submitted a filing in response to Mueller's claim that Manafort lied to him while "cooperating".  The filing is redacted but sloppily, and could easily be unredacted by copy-pasting into a new document.  Removing redactions revealed:

- while managing Trump's campaign Manafort met with Konstantin Kilimnik (Russian businessman + alleged spy with strong intel connections, already been indicted) in Madrid and shared internal polling data with him.

- Manafort and Kilimnik discussed and shared a "Ukrainian peace plan", possibly the same one Michael Cohen infamously delivered to the White House in 2017.

- Manafort lied about being in contact with senior administration officials after the election, including for months after he was indicted.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/legal-issues/paul-manafort-shared-2016-polling-data-with-russian-employee-according-to-court-filing/2019/01/08/3f562ad8-12b0-11e9-803c-4ef28312c8b9_story.html?


Good stuff. I'm sure that internal polling data was just for making idle conversation, which just happened to randomly veer straight toward a major Russian foreign policy interest.

Re: Paul Manafort bank and tax fraud trial
« Reply #153 on: January 08, 2019, 04:40:47 PM »

Online Celtics4ever

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Quote
Pence will start looking good to enough R's to swing the vote? Especially those who don't truly support Trump. Many are afraid of being primaried in 2020, but that fear fades with Pence on top and Trump on the outs.

Pence is smart, and this may have been his plan all long.   Note how he stays quiet on almost everything.

Re: Paul Manafort bank and tax fraud trial
« Reply #154 on: January 08, 2019, 06:16:51 PM »

Offline mmmmm

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Supreme Court rules against the mysterious 'foreign-country-owned-company' that has been fighting Mueller subpoena:

https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/08/politics/supreme-court-mueller-mystery-case/index.html

Quote
The court's order restores a daily fine the company will face that had been put on hold by Chief Justice John Roberts while the full court considered the issue. It is an apparent loss for the company and marks the full court's first foray into the Mueller probe.
The order will put pressure on the company to turn over information to the grand jury or otherwise cooperate with Mueller as contempt fines continue to accumulate.
The company will have to pay $50,000 a day until it complies by turning over information, the DC Circuit said in an opinion published Tuesday. Those fees haven't yet piled up, but will begin now since the Supreme Court declined earlier Tuesday to freeze the fees.
There were no noted dissents in the high court's two-sentence order.
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Re: Paul Manafort bank and tax fraud trial
« Reply #155 on: March 08, 2019, 05:52:42 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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So even though sentencing guidelines we're looking at 12-25 years for 8 counts of tax and bank fraud, Judge T.S. Ellis gives Paul Manafort just 47 month, this after Ellis commenting that Manafort showed no signs of remorse.

A New York public defender put out some sentences his clients got for lesser crimes. It really paints a bad picture for how some crimes are so poorly sentenced. You steal $100 of quarters from a laundromat and you get 3-4 years in New York but you defraud banks and the government of millions of dollars and you get 47 months.

Re: Paul Manafort bank and tax fraud trial
« Reply #156 on: March 08, 2019, 06:11:23 PM »

Online Roy H.

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So even though sentencing guidelines we're looking at 12-25 years for 8 counts of tax and bank fraud, Judge T.S. Ellis gives Paul Manafort just 47 month, this after Ellis commenting that Manafort showed no signs of remorse.

A New York public defender put out some sentences his clients got for lesser crimes. It really paints a bad picture for how some crimes are so poorly sentenced. You steal $100 of quarters from a laundromat and you get 3-4 years in New York but you defraud banks and the government of millions of dollars and you get 47 months.

Thereís always a tension between sentencing guidelines (which tend to be extremely harsh) and judicial discretion (which ranges wildly). We see whacky sentences on both ends. Some defendants end up with 25 years in prison for stealing a pizza; others get probation for rape.

The answer is selecting the best possible judges, rather than the most politically connected judges. But, good luck there. Thatís as realistic as term limits or getting money out of politics.


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Re: Paul Manafort bank and tax fraud trial
« Reply #157 on: March 08, 2019, 06:56:13 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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So even though sentencing guidelines we're looking at 12-25 years for 8 counts of tax and bank fraud, Judge T.S. Ellis gives Paul Manafort just 47 month, this after Ellis commenting that Manafort showed no signs of remorse.

A New York public defender put out some sentences his clients got for lesser crimes. It really paints a bad picture for how some crimes are so poorly sentenced. You steal $100 of quarters from a laundromat and you get 3-4 years in New York but you defraud banks and the government of millions of dollars and you get 47 months.

Thereís always a tension between sentencing guidelines (which tend to be extremely harsh) and judicial discretion (which ranges wildly). We see whacky sentences on both ends. Some defendants end up with 25 years in prison for stealing a pizza; others get probation for rape.

The answer is selecting the best possible judges, rather than the most politically connected judges. But, good luck there. Thatís as realistic as term limits or getting money out of politics.
Yeah, for me this isn't an indictment on Ellis, though I think he showed he might not be one of the best justices on a bench throughout this trial, but the wide ranging sentences that appear to be given out throughout the country that vary upon skin color, location, white or blue color crime, and the wealth of the defendant.

I am astounded though that after hearing from Manafort before giving his sentence and seeing and hearing for himself that Manafort had no remorse and only regretted getting caught, that Ellis commented on such yet still gave the light sentence(light being compared to sentencing guidelines, not that I think he got a light sentence).

But if this teaches the people of this country anything, it's that perhaps sentences for crimes and sentencing guidelines need to be addressed. You steal $500 by going over the counter and grabbing money out of a register at a convenience store and you get more years in jail than some lawyer who frauded the government of millions of dollars and then did the same thing to banks and did it many times.

Something is wrong there.

Re: Paul Manafort bank and tax fraud trial
« Reply #158 on: March 09, 2019, 03:54:48 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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It should be noted (and has been noted elsewhere) that the lady who voted accidentally (or even on purpose, whatever) will be in jail longer than Manafort.

There are multiple sets of rules in the country for different citizens but I really hope I get to play by the rich white man rules one day. Itís all a misunderstanding and jail is hard!

"You've gotta respect a 15-percent 3-point shooter. A guy
like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: Paul Manafort bank and tax fraud trial
« Reply #159 on: March 09, 2019, 04:36:20 PM »

Online Fan from VT

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It should be noted (and has been noted elsewhere) that the lady who voted accidentally (or even on purpose, whatever) will be in jail longer than Manafort.

There are multiple sets of rules in the country for different citizens but I really hope I get to play by the rich white man rules one day. Itís all a misunderstanding and jail is hard!

And he has impressed a lot of people!

The justice ďsystemĒ is a farce.

Re: Paul Manafort bank and tax fraud trial
« Reply #160 on: March 09, 2019, 05:00:02 PM »

Online Celtics4ever

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If this lack of justice bothers you, I could see Pres. Trump pardoning him down the road if he loses in 2020 or just to avert the press from some heat.   He has used controversy to switch the dialogue quite a few times.

Re: Paul Manafort bank and tax fraud trial
« Reply #161 on: March 09, 2019, 05:26:17 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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If this lack of justice bothers you, I could see Pres. Trump pardoning him down the road if he loses in 2020 or just to avert the press from some heat.   He has used controversy to switch the dialogue quite a few times.
I think the moment Trump starts handing out pardons for people involved in his circle, the impeachment proceedings begin.

Re: Paul Manafort bank and tax fraud trial
« Reply #162 on: March 09, 2019, 05:45:15 PM »

Offline Neurotic Guy

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I really have no opinion on the amount of time he got - 4 years sounds like a good deal of time to me.  From the ďrelativityĒ standpoint I definitely think this case/sentence could open doors to a conversation about the fairness of treatment when it comes to race, type of crime, wealth - and other factors that may bias a decision. 

Another unmentioned factor with regard to fairness/equity might also be the advantage a wealthy white-collar white man might have in terms of the prison ďvenueĒ.  Does Manafort go to a minimum security prison, or receive special accommodations if he is in a higher security prison?   I have no need to see him mingling with violent offenders, but my guess is that there are poor, black drug offenders or petty thieves who are sentenced for long periods of time and housed with dangerous criminals.  Reality check requested from anyone here who knows better. 

Re: Paul Manafort bank and tax fraud trial
« Reply #163 on: March 13, 2019, 12:48:35 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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Manafort's 2nd sentencing just added 43 months to his sentence, for a total of 90 or 7.5 years. Minus time served and with good behavior he could be out in 2025.

And on cue, indictments announced by New York State for 16 felonies. Might be pardon insurance.

Re: Paul Manafort bank and tax fraud trial
« Reply #164 on: March 13, 2019, 12:52:28 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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Manafort's 2nd sentencing just added 43 months to his sentence, for a total of 90 or 7.5 years. Minus time served and with good behavior he could be out in 2025.

And on cue, indictments announced by New York State for 16 felonies. Might be pardon insurance.

Careful on using the word insurance. You might be proof of obstruction of justice later on.

"You've gotta respect a 15-percent 3-point shooter. A guy
like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

 

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