Author Topic: Stand Your Ground shooting in Florida - GUILTY VERDICT  (Read 10032 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: Stand Your Ground shooting in Florida
« Reply #45 on: July 24, 2018, 08:27:55 AM »

Offline Vermont Green

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4557
  • Tommy Points: 382
I am stunned at some of the pretzel bending that is going on to justify this shooting, albeit a small minority of the posters.  To me this was murder and the shooter should be convicted.  If this is allowed in the name of stand your ground, then what wouldn't be?  You could shoot someone in almost any situation that becomes confrontational in any way.  The women (wife of victim) certainly would have been able to shoot the shooter if she had a gun.  She was likely much more threatened than the man/shooter.  The guy had just shot her husband.

We have police and laws to deal with assault.  The guy could have pressed charges but he never would because under that scenario, if the police responded, they would not have arrested anyone.  Maybe a parking ticket.  The shove was unnecessary but not criminal I don't think.  And why can't he stand his ground.  He was being threatened and he responded with a shove.  The other guy responded with a gun.  If responding with a gun is OK, why wouldn't responding with a shove?

And this idea that you better shoot him quick before he shoots you?  Yeah, let's settle everything with duels.  What could go wrong with that.

Re: Stand Your Ground shooting in Florida
« Reply #46 on: July 24, 2018, 08:29:48 AM »

Offline Vermont Green

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4557
  • Tommy Points: 382
Double
« Last Edit: July 24, 2018, 09:07:06 AM by Vermont Green »

Re: Stand Your Ground shooting in Florida
« Reply #47 on: July 24, 2018, 08:54:09 AM »

Offline saltlover

  • Ed Macauley
  • ***********
  • Posts: 11745
  • Tommy Points: 2514
Just commenting on Stand Your Ground laws. They're freaking stupid. Why don't we all arm ourselves and just go back in time to the Old West.

"I feel threatened. Time to shoot to kill!" Unreal.
How about commenting on the victim escalating the situation from a verbal conflict to a physical one?

Liberals cannot assign blame to minorities. It’s part of the welcome package section 3: pandering for votes. Instead, when a minority does something wrong, they blame the system or even better “systemic racism” — whatever that means.

OK.  The victim can be blamed for assault by means of a shove, sure.  But such assault and then retreat upon seeing a firearm does not warrant a death sentence.  Is the shove really what is most deserving of discussion here?

The moment you put your hands on someone, you have forfeited your right to life. All the man had to do was collect his family and go into his car like a civil member of society. His machismo cost his family greatly.

I’m curious if they gave her a parking ticket for illegally parking in the handicapped spot.
Uh, seriously??

I’ve once been told the only things worth fighting for are the ones you’re willing to die for. You don’t know what situation you are putting yourself into when you put hands on someone. You don’t know what training they have or what they have on them (or who they know/come back with).

I don’t know why that guy needed to shove the man to the ground, the woman got out of the car looking to get into the face of the man for confronting her about pulling into the spot illegally. I think eyewitness accounts and audio are necessary here.

Obviously the woman shouldn’t have “parked” in that spot, but she was still in the car (for whatever that’s worth). The guy is not the morality police, so if he felt the need to say something, do so civilly. What took place after that, I don’t know. The woman clearly exits her vehicle at her discretion and appears to get into the mans face. If he opened her car door or dragged her out, that’s a completely different story. She seemed to escalate the situation which led to her husband coming out and attacking the man. Did he deserve to get shot? I do not believe so. Do we know what he said after shoving him to the ground and standing over him?

At such a severe disadvantage on the ground with a man standing over him, I could understand pulling his firearm. But he would need to articulate very well why he pulled the trigger when the man seeming retreated upon the firearm being drawn. Everything happens so fast in situations like this it’s very hard for us to say what SHOULD have been done, just a very unfortunate situation.

I personally think everyone was wrong in this situation, but not one that someone should die because of.

This was not stand your ground.  He did not feel threatened.  And he has a past doing this stuff.

Quote
Another Circle A customer, Rick Kelly, told NBC affiliate WFLA that he encountered Drejka in a similar situation a couple of months ago. Kelly said he had pulled into that same handicap spot and Drejka began inspecting his decals to see if he had the right to be there. The situation escalated.

"He was basically threatening to shoot me that day," Kelly said.

Quote
And in 2012, Tyler Smith, 18, accused a driver later identified as Drejka of hanging a gun outside of his truck window during a road rage incident in Palm Harbor, northwest of Tampa, according to law enforcement documents obtained by NBC News.

Smith, whose account was corroborated by his passenger, told a Pinellas County sheriff’s deputy that Drejka began yelling and honking at him when he stopped at a yellow traffic light, the documents say.

Smith said Drejka then dangled a black handgun from his driver’s side window and placed two magazines on his truck’s dashboard. After Drejka followed the car, the passenger told the deputy, Smith called the sheriff’s office to report him — though he didn’t want to press charges, according to the documents.

During an interview with deputies, Drejka said he’d yelled at Smith and honked his horn after the car cut him off, the documents say. Drejka denied following the vehicle or displaying a Glock that he kept in his truck’s center console.

No charges were filed in the case and the documents say Drejka’s concealed weapon’s license was valid.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna893646


Re: Stand Your Ground shooting in Florida
« Reply #48 on: July 24, 2018, 09:13:19 AM »

Offline gift

  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1992
  • Tommy Points: 182
I've never thought Stand Your Ground was meant to justify irresponsible use of a gun. I don't know how it is typically applied, but I assumed (and support) it's use to encourage necessary self-defense, not reckless use of a weapon. I'm not sure what happened here, but if it was reckless use (as I would be inclined to believe) then I think the man should not be protected by Stand Your Ground. I think there should be some consideration for the fact that he was the instigator of the conflict also.


Re: Stand Your Ground shooting in Florida
« Reply #49 on: July 24, 2018, 09:16:11 AM »

Offline gift

  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1992
  • Tommy Points: 182
Just commenting on Stand Your Ground laws. They're freaking stupid. Why don't we all arm ourselves and just go back in time to the Old West.

"I feel threatened. Time to shoot to kill!" Unreal.
How about commenting on the victim escalating the situation from a verbal conflict to a physical one?

Liberals cannot assign blame to minorities. It’s part of the welcome package section 3: pandering for votes. Instead, when a minority does something wrong, they blame the system or even better “systemic racism” — whatever that means.

OK.  The victim can be blamed for assault by means of a shove, sure.  But such assault and then retreat upon seeing a firearm does not warrant a death sentence.  Is the shove really what is most deserving of discussion here?

The moment you put your hands on someone, you have forfeited your right to life. All the man had to do was collect his family and go into his car like a civil member of society. His machismo cost his family greatly.

I’m curious if they gave her a parking ticket for illegally parking in the handicapped spot.
Uh, seriously??

I’ve once been told the only things worth fighting for are the ones you’re willing to die for. You don’t know what situation you are putting yourself into when you put hands on someone. You don’t know what training they have or what they have on them (or who they know/come back with).

I don’t know why that guy needed to shove the man to the ground, the woman got out of the car looking to get into the face of the man for confronting her about pulling into the spot illegally. I think eyewitness accounts and audio are necessary here.

Obviously the woman shouldn’t have “parked” in that spot, but she was still in the car (for whatever that’s worth). The guy is not the morality police, so if he felt the need to say something, do so civilly. What took place after that, I don’t know. The woman clearly exits her vehicle at her discretion and appears to get into the mans face. If he opened her car door or dragged her out, that’s a completely different story. She seemed to escalate the situation which led to her husband coming out and attacking the man. Did he deserve to get shot? I do not believe so. Do we know what he said after shoving him to the ground and standing over him?

At such a severe disadvantage on the ground with a man standing over him, I could understand pulling his firearm. But he would need to articulate very well why he pulled the trigger when the man seeming retreated upon the firearm being drawn. Everything happens so fast in situations like this it’s very hard for us to say what SHOULD have been done, just a very unfortunate situation.

I personally think everyone was wrong in this situation, but not one that someone should die because of.

This was not stand your ground.  He did not feel threatened.  And he has a past doing this stuff.

Quote
Another Circle A customer, Rick Kelly, told NBC affiliate WFLA that he encountered Drejka in a similar situation a couple of months ago. Kelly said he had pulled into that same handicap spot and Drejka began inspecting his decals to see if he had the right to be there. The situation escalated.

"He was basically threatening to shoot me that day," Kelly said.

Quote
And in 2012, Tyler Smith, 18, accused a driver later identified as Drejka of hanging a gun outside of his truck window during a road rage incident in Palm Harbor, northwest of Tampa, according to law enforcement documents obtained by NBC News.

Smith, whose account was corroborated by his passenger, told a Pinellas County sheriff’s deputy that Drejka began yelling and honking at him when he stopped at a yellow traffic light, the documents say.

Smith said Drejka then dangled a black handgun from his driver’s side window and placed two magazines on his truck’s dashboard. After Drejka followed the car, the passenger told the deputy, Smith called the sheriff’s office to report him — though he didn’t want to press charges, according to the documents.

During an interview with deputies, Drejka said he’d yelled at Smith and honked his horn after the car cut him off, the documents say. Drejka denied following the vehicle or displaying a Glock that he kept in his truck’s center console.

No charges were filed in the case and the documents say Drejka’s concealed weapon’s license was valid.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna893646

Sounds like this guy was just waiting for this opportunity.

Re: Stand Your Ground shooting in Florida
« Reply #50 on: July 24, 2018, 09:16:29 AM »

Offline slamtheking

  • Robert Parish
  • *********************
  • Posts: 21158
  • Tommy Points: 9133
Just commenting on Stand Your Ground laws. They're freaking stupid. Why don't we all arm ourselves and just go back in time to the Old West.

"I feel threatened. Time to shoot to kill!" Unreal.
How about commenting on the victim escalating the situation from a verbal conflict to a physical one?

Liberals cannot assign blame to minorities. It’s part of the welcome package section 3: pandering for votes. Instead, when a minority does something wrong, they blame the system or even better “systemic racism” — whatever that means.

OK.  The victim can be blamed for assault by means of a shove, sure.  But such assault and then retreat upon seeing a firearm does not warrant a death sentence.  Is the shove really what is most deserving of discussion here?

The moment you put your hands on someone, you have forfeited your right to life. All the man had to do was collect his family and go into his car like a civil member of society. His machismo cost his family greatly.

I’m curious if they gave her a parking ticket for illegally parking in the handicapped spot.
Uh, seriously??

I’ve once been told the only things worth fighting for are the ones you’re willing to die for. You don’t know what situation you are putting yourself into when you put hands on someone. You don’t know what training they have or what they have on them (or who they know/come back with).

I don’t know why that guy needed to shove the man to the ground, the woman got out of the car looking to get into the face of the man for confronting her about pulling into the spot illegally. I think eyewitness accounts and audio are necessary here.

Obviously the woman shouldn’t have “parked” in that spot, but she was still in the car (for whatever that’s worth). The guy is not the morality police, so if he felt the need to say something, do so civilly. What took place after that, I don’t know. The woman clearly exits her vehicle at her discretion and appears to get into the mans face. If he opened her car door or dragged her out, that’s a completely different story. She seemed to escalate the situation which led to her husband coming out and attacking the man. Did he deserve to get shot? I do not believe so. Do we know what he said after shoving him to the ground and standing over him?

At such a severe disadvantage on the ground with a man standing over him, I could understand pulling his firearm. But he would need to articulate very well why he pulled the trigger when the man seeming retreated upon the firearm being drawn. Everything happens so fast in situations like this it’s very hard for us to say what SHOULD have been done, just a very unfortunate situation.

I personally think everyone was wrong in this situation, but not one that someone should die because of.

This was not stand your ground.  He did not feel threatened.  And he has a past doing this stuff.

Quote
Another Circle A customer, Rick Kelly, told NBC affiliate WFLA that he encountered Drejka in a similar situation a couple of months ago. Kelly said he had pulled into that same handicap spot and Drejka began inspecting his decals to see if he had the right to be there. The situation escalated.

"He was basically threatening to shoot me that day," Kelly said.

Quote
And in 2012, Tyler Smith, 18, accused a driver later identified as Drejka of hanging a gun outside of his truck window during a road rage incident in Palm Harbor, northwest of Tampa, according to law enforcement documents obtained by NBC News.

Smith, whose account was corroborated by his passenger, told a Pinellas County sheriff’s deputy that Drejka began yelling and honking at him when he stopped at a yellow traffic light, the documents say.

Smith said Drejka then dangled a black handgun from his driver’s side window and placed two magazines on his truck’s dashboard. After Drejka followed the car, the passenger told the deputy, Smith called the sheriff’s office to report him — though he didn’t want to press charges, according to the documents.

During an interview with deputies, Drejka said he’d yelled at Smith and honked his horn after the car cut him off, the documents say. Drejka denied following the vehicle or displaying a Glock that he kept in his truck’s center console.

No charges were filed in the case and the documents say Drejka’s concealed weapon’s license was valid.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna893646
not surprising.  as I mentioned earlier, this guy seems like he was looking for a confrontation in order to shoot someone.  this was not self-defense nor something I would think could legitimately be considered Stand Your Ground.   
if he's not charged with murder, the victim's wife is going to own his butt financially after that lawsuit gets filed (in what I expect to take less than a week before a lawyer pops his head out).

Re: Stand Your Ground shooting in Florida
« Reply #51 on: July 24, 2018, 09:17:40 AM »

Offline Eddie20

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8497
  • Tommy Points: 975
The shove was unnecessary but not criminal I don't think.

You may want to rethink that.

Re: Stand Your Ground shooting in Florida
« Reply #52 on: July 24, 2018, 09:22:20 AM »

Offline Moranis

  • Global Moderator
  • Sam Jones
  • **********************
  • Posts: 22176
  • Tommy Points: 1058
The shove was unnecessary but not criminal I don't think.

You may want to rethink that.
how is the shove not self defense under the stand your ground law?
Historical Draft - Portland Trailblazers
PG - Magic Johnson, Tony Parker
SG - Clyde Drexler, Dennis Johnson, Alvin Robertson
SF - James Worthy, Alex English
PF - Charles Barkley, Ben Wallace
C - Moses Malone, George Mikan, Brad Daugherty

Re: Stand Your Ground shooting in Florida
« Reply #53 on: July 24, 2018, 09:32:13 AM »

Offline Roy H.

  • Forums Manager
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 39140
  • Tommy Points: -27342
  • 33,333 posts and counting . . .
The shove was unnecessary but not criminal I don't think.

You may want to rethink that.
how is the shove not self defense under the stand your ground law?

Because no reasonable person would think there was an imminent fear of serious bodily injury just because somebody is arguing with their wife. 

The victim had no right to attack the shooter. The shooter shouldn’t have a right to shoot a non-threatening assailant out of revenge.

Once a CrotoNat, always a CrotoNat.  CelticsBlog Draft Champions, 2009 & 2012;
DKC Draft 2015 Champions and beyond...

Re: Stand Your Ground shooting in Florida
« Reply #54 on: July 24, 2018, 09:40:00 AM »

Offline Eddie20

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8497
  • Tommy Points: 975
The shove was unnecessary but not criminal I don't think.

You may want to rethink that.
how is the shove not self defense under the stand your ground law?

Because no reasonable person would think there was an imminent fear of serious bodily injury just because somebody is arguing with their wife. 

The victim had no right to attack the shooter. The shooter shouldn’t have a right to shoot a non-threatening assailant out of revenge.

In addition, his girlfriend was clearly not feeling threatened because she exited her vehicle in order to confront Drejka. A case of her being in fear would hold a lot more weight had she remained inside the vehicle and locked the doors.

As for the shove, McGlockton committed a misdemeanor battery on Drejka for pushing him. This part is irrefutable.

Re: Stand Your Ground shooting in Florida
« Reply #55 on: July 24, 2018, 09:40:42 AM »

Offline johnnygreen

  • Kyrie Irving
  • Posts: 895
  • Tommy Points: 184
A case like this only helps cements my idea that if a man needs a gun for protection against another person, then they're a coward. This loser was a tough guy when he was yelling at a woman and child, but when another man calls him on it by pushing him, then he needs to pull out a gun and shoot him? From some of the comments that I have read, I would have thought the shooter was in his 80's. This maniac is only 47!

Obviously, the police will/should be investigating this case further. I'm interested to know more about the other incidents that this man was involved in. Did he only confront African Americans in these various reported incidents? If yes, does that turn this shooting into a hate crime?

Re: Stand Your Ground shooting in Florida
« Reply #56 on: July 24, 2018, 09:48:13 AM »

Offline slamtheking

  • Robert Parish
  • *********************
  • Posts: 21158
  • Tommy Points: 9133
The shove was unnecessary but not criminal I don't think.

You may want to rethink that.
how is the shove not self defense under the stand your ground law?

Because no reasonable person would think there was an imminent fear of serious bodily injury just because somebody is arguing with their wife. 

The victim had no right to attack the shooter. The shooter shouldn’t have a right to shoot a non-threatening assailant out of revenge.
perhaps that may be true about the shover but based on what's been reported about the shooter's prior behavior comments in other situations, I think we'd need audio to determine if the shooter threatened the woman in the car (who got out of the car when her husband was out of the store) which would certainly make that a threatening situation to her and a more legitimate Stand Your Ground situation than the one the shooter is claiming.

What I'm wondering at this point is since the shooter is now being exposed as someone who likes to show his gun and make threats with it --> what's the husband's history?  has he been known to get into physical confrontations before or is this a first?  if his history shows his initial reaction to situations is to become physical, he may not have been considering a way to de-escalate the situation however if he's never been known to be physical, I think it throws even more doubt on the shooter's claims of feeling threatened (possibly he was the one threatening the wife with violence and the husband took the step of trying to defend his wife).  I think the verbal exchange here is crucial to knowing the mindset of each of these people.

totally agree regarding the shooter.  once that gun was pulled he had the upper hand and could have stopped the escalation right there.  no need to shoot -- just send the family away.  failing that, have someone contact the cops to have them sort it out. 

Has anyone heard if there was audio of the incident or another witness that may have heard the exchange?

Re: Stand Your Ground shooting in Florida
« Reply #57 on: July 24, 2018, 09:52:43 AM »

Offline slamtheking

  • Robert Parish
  • *********************
  • Posts: 21158
  • Tommy Points: 9133
A case like this only helps cements my idea that if a man needs a gun for protection against another person, then they're a coward. This loser was a tough guy when he was yelling at a woman and child, but when another man calls him on it by pushing him, then he needs to pull out a gun and shoot him? From some of the comments that I have read, I would have thought the shooter was in his 80's. This maniac is only 47!

Obviously, the police will/should be investigating this case further. I'm interested to know more about the other incidents that this man was involved in. Did he only confront African Americans in these various reported incidents? If yes, does that turn this shooting into a hate crime?
I'd hate for this discussion to head down that path but it's probably a valid question. 

Re: Stand Your Ground shooting in Florida
« Reply #58 on: July 24, 2018, 09:57:18 AM »

Offline Moranis

  • Global Moderator
  • Sam Jones
  • **********************
  • Posts: 22176
  • Tommy Points: 1058
The shove was unnecessary but not criminal I don't think.

You may want to rethink that.
how is the shove not self defense under the stand your ground law?

Because no reasonable person would think there was an imminent fear of serious bodily injury just because somebody is arguing with their wife. 

The victim had no right to attack the shooter. The shooter shouldn’t have a right to shoot a non-threatening assailant out of revenge.
How do you know what he was saying to his family?  You have no idea what he actually said.  I think the husband's reaction probably tells more of the story than anything else. 

What we know is that a family parks in a parking spot.  A person approaches them yelling in a heated manner.  So heated that he provokes a physical response from the husband just coming back from the store.  He then pulls out a gun and shoots the husband that is clearly backing away at the time the shot is fired.  The husband ultimately dies.  So in conclusion the instigator of a confrontation kills someone and he isn't even charged by the police because of a ridiculous application of a rule.
Historical Draft - Portland Trailblazers
PG - Magic Johnson, Tony Parker
SG - Clyde Drexler, Dennis Johnson, Alvin Robertson
SF - James Worthy, Alex English
PF - Charles Barkley, Ben Wallace
C - Moses Malone, George Mikan, Brad Daugherty

Re: Stand Your Ground shooting in Florida
« Reply #59 on: July 24, 2018, 10:09:55 AM »

Offline slamtheking

  • Robert Parish
  • *********************
  • Posts: 21158
  • Tommy Points: 9133
just to add more fuel to the fire --> hypothetically, if the wife had stayed in the car when her husband came out of the store does this same situation play out as it did?

Does the husband feel there's less of a threat with his wife in the car possibly resulting in just a heated exchange of words (no need to physically defend the wife with the shove) and him getting in the car then the family leaving with no bodily harm to anyone? 
OR
Is the verbal exchange threatening enough that the shove is inevitable and things play out just as they did anyway?

 

Hello! Guest

Welcome to the CelticsStrong Forums.

Community

Signup to win FREE tickets

* indicates required